Robert99

In examining the photo of the door and KC, repeat door and KC, in Farflung's attachment, it should be noted that the picture has been cropped at the top and rotated slightly clockwise. Using the horizontal fixture outside the door as a reference, it is obvious that KC's bald head is exactly at the same level as the bottom of the top door hinge. The bottom of the top hinge on my front entrance door is exactly 68 inches (or 5 feet, 8 inches) above the floor. While my door is somewhat wider than the door in the photo, the vertical dimensions are probably very close since most doors in this day and age are "pre-hung" at the factory. Since KC is wearing shoes, probably with at least a one-half inch heel, he would seem to be less than 5 feet, 8 inches, in his bare feet. So KC may have exaggerated UPWARDS when the drivers license people asked him his height. Presumably he didn't have any reason to understate his height and, also presumably, the license people would have noticed if his claimed height was 4 inches less than what they were seeing. Also, the license people could have check his claimed eye color in a fraction of a second. And they probably did. Robert99

Rataczak was correct in saying that, when in flight, the stairs would drop only partially down when the release handle was turned. As humans or cargo were placed on the stairs, the stairs would lower further and then return to their partially down position when the loads were removed. It has been discussed on this thread before (as has probably everything on the earth and in the universe), but this only partially opening matter reveals a number of possibilities and probabilities. The video of the paratroopers jumping down the stairs of 727s in southeast Asia indicates that there was no movement of the stairs between jumpers. It doesn't take much of a jump to realize that those stairs were locked down. And there is no indication that the stairs ever locked down during any hijacker's jump or during the FBI tests. And it doesn't take much of an additional jump to understand that the southeast Asia 727s had rear stairs that were deliberately modified so that they could be lowered and locked down. This would require an electric motor in the stair area to do the lowering and a suitable control panel for the modified stairs. This would explain why Cooper was not familiar with the rear stair lowering procedure and control panel on the NWA aircraft since he had probably never seen one like it before. However, Cooper did possess more information about 727 operations with the stairs down, or partially down, than the hijacked flight crew. Cooper knew that the 727 could take off with the rear stairs "unlocked", this doesn't mean that they were fully down and locked, and that he could parachute from those stairs. Coupled with the aircraft configuration Cooper specified, this means that Cooper probably had first hand information about the capabilities of the 727s used in southeast Asia. But it doesn't mean that Cooper himself wa an experienced parachutist. Robert99

WELL Mr. High and Mighty. Seems like Georger has already explained what I tried to tell you. Cook and Tosaw were friends. I need to read the thread before I post to someone like you. You do not understand the simplest of concepts...and you do not have a sense of humor - WHAT a grump! I have dial-up and I answer the post as I read them. I do not read the post to the end and then go back to make replies. Most of the information about the Balloon Bombs was censored and little made it to the papers until much later. Cook did NOT use his name and he according to an email sent to me made 2 posts. YES, I have had lots of emails from Cook! Not recently though. He likes puppets - he used many of us to post what he wanted to be known - that made us puppets and why I refer to Cook as the Puppet Master. I was not the only puppet. You only undermine yourself - not me. If the code as given to a newspaper is NON - EXISTENT then you PROVE IT! What is wrong you couldn't figure out the code? Well, if I have been set-up with the CODE - who would have a purpose in doing that? WHY would someone do that? How could they possibly know I could unravel the numbers? I didn't make the damn code up! Jo, Just forget about the balloon bombs. Even when they were flying directly over our heads, my 4th and 5th grade classmates and I didn't get excited about them. We could see them, we were informed about them by the government, and they were common knowledge. And there was no panic whatsoever. You want me to prove that the "codes" were non-existent. In other words, you want me to prove a negative. I'll do that just as soon as I get my perpetual motion machine perfected. Robert99

JO! THE QUOTES THAT YOU MAKE ABOVE AND ATTRIBUTE TO ME WERE MADE BY ROBERTMBLEVINS! PRESUMABLY, YOU ARE REFERRING TO THE ARTICLE THAT BLEVINS LINKED THAT APPEARED IN THE SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE! MY ONLY COMMENT ON THAT ARTICLE WAS TO POINT OUT THAT TOSAW BELIEVED THAT COOPER HAD LANDED NEAR THE POINT WHERE THE MONEY WAS LATER FOUND! NOW HAVE YOU GOT THAT STRAIGHT!!!!!? Robert99

For someone who does NOT mind undermining otherd. you do not do your own research. Galen Cook reportedly by his own admission was given most of Tosaw's research. True or False? Only Cook and Tosaw's sister know the truth about that one. Aren't you the one in the thread who CLAIMS to communicate with Cook? I can't keep the two 99's straight! Jo, You need to do some research of your own. I have never been in contact with Cook. I have never seen a post on this thread from Cook. I suppose that you are accusing me of undermining you in some fashion. Well, Jo, life can be a bitch at times when you are posting nonsense about the balloon bombs, finding non-existent codes in Duane's service number(s), and so forth. Forget about keeping the two 99s straight. But it would be nice if you spent some time trying to keep the two Jo Webers straight. Robert99

Would 377 be willing to comment on the noise fields he experienced while jumping from DC-9s? I think they had basically the same engines when introduced as the 727 had when it was introduced about two years earlier. Just free falling through the noise field shouldn't have a major impact on the jumper. But it might have if the jumper was exposed to the noise fields for several seconds if, for instance, he stopped on the stairs. But we need an acoustics expert to explain the possible human factor problems caused by extremely high noise fields. And about 140 to 150 db would sound like the end of the world. The construction of the flushing channel, about 3.5 miles uupstream of Tena Bar, could have dislodged Cooper and the money if he was in that area. The flushing channel was built shortly before the money was found at Tena Bar. Also, early topographic maps indicated that the area between Catepillar Island and the mainland was a mud flat. If Cooper had hit that, he would probably still be sinking. But that mud flat has now been dredged and Kadow's Caterpillar Island Marina has been built there. Some of the boats I saw there appeared to have a draft of several feet. Robert99

Georger, are you sure that you don't mean "upstream", which would be to the south from Tena Bar, instead of "downstream", which would be to the north of Tena Bar and where the money was found? Georger, Galen Cook may be on to something here. Remember that the 727 had very early model turbine engines and they were noisy. The aircraft was flying on the "backside of the power curve" so the engines would have been at a rather high power level. The power level can probably be determined from the fuel flow to each engine which the FBI notes give as 4000 pounds per engine per hour when the airliner was in the Portland area. If the sound level on the stairs adjacent to the three engines reached a level of 140 to 150 db, then it is possible that Cooper could have lost consciousness if he paused there for several seconds. If that happened, then he may have fallen off the stairs rather than jumped. And he could have been on the ground 40 seconds later. That is not enough time for him to regain his "senses". Perhaps someone on the thread with acoustics training and access to 727 flight manuals for the early production engines could help Cook on this matter. Robert99

The embedded link in the above post leads to an article by Michael Taylor in the San Francisco Chronicle. Michael Taylor quotes Richard Tosaw as stating that he believes Cooper's body will be found "somewhere near the Ingram family's picnic site". Presumably, he means near where the money was found. This is the first time that I have heard anything about Tosaw having arrived at that same conclusion. Does anyone know what happened to Tosaw's papers after his death? Robert99 Yes. They went to Galen Cook. They were close friends. That is how Galen learned of the Janet story. Oh! And I'm not lying. [one of my 1st cousins and Tosaw's brother Mike attended the same college and played football together during WWII] Okay, thanks. As I understand it, Galen Cook supports Sailshaw's renter (Peterson?) as being the hijacker. If I have translated correctly, this means that Cook believes the hijacker survived the jump and disagrees with Tosaw. Or to put it another way, no three people on this thread agree on anything with one single exception. The exception is that most posters here think Bob Knoss is nuts, and even he may agree with that. Robert99

The embedded link in the above post leads to an article by Michael Taylor in the San Francisco Chronicle. Michael Taylor quotes Richard Tosaw as stating that he believes Cooper's body will be found "somewhere near the Ingram family's picnic site". Presumably, he means near where the money was found. This is the first time that I have heard anything about Tosaw having arrived at that same conclusion. Does anyone know what happened to Tosaw's papers after his death? Robert99

Jo, You keep getting these things backwards and generally wrong. The balloon bombs started appearing in the western United States in early November 1944 and just two days after the first ones were launched in Japan. Some reports about these balloons did appear in the media in the US and China (yes, China) and the Japanese were aware of these reports. I have seen a report that an article on the balloons appeared in Newsweek magazine about January 1, 1945. On January 4, 1945, the US Government asked the media not to publicize these sightings and reports. This was voluntary but the media cooperated. On May 5, 1945, a woman and five children were killed near Lakeview, Oregon when they found one of these balloons near their picnic site and started moving it or playing with it. These were the only people killed by these balloons. And on May 22, 1945 and after this incident, the US Government started publicizing the balloons and also started an educational program to warn all persons, especially children, about the balloons. I personally remember seeing one of those balloons in flight (being circled by a couple of P-38s) and I also remember that educational program. So to summarize, the Japanese launched the first balloons in the first few days of November 1944 and the first one was found in the US two days later. About two months after the first balloon was found in the US, the government started a voluntary media effort to not publish information about the balloons. That effort was abandoned on May 22, 1945 when the government started an effort to warn people of the balloons. Why do you keep saying that everything about the balloons was SECRET? The firefighters didn't need a security clearance to fight a forest fire. And at that time I wasn't even old enough to know what a security clearance was and didn't have one either. And I don't know of anyone in my fifth grade class who had a security clearance. Robert99

Jo, If anyone on this thread is in a rut, it is you. You have been trying to become Mrs. Cooper for the last 17 years. And you have never found a single fact that you couldn't "explain" away if it didn't support your wild idea that Duane was Cooper. Also, you have never found a single fact that supported your "Duane was Cooper" myth. Basically, you and Knoss are flip sides of the same coin. Robert99

Sufficient explanation has been given. I'm not proving the case. I'm simply telling you what the facts are. You want to prove the case, you find the facts I'm telling you and YOU prove it. I'm just a snitch whispering in your ear. Bite me. Knoss, There is no way on earth you can be a snitch! The term "snitch" means an "informer" and that implies knowledge of something that is used to rat out someone else. Since you don't know what you are talking about in the first place, you don't have any information to pass along in order to rat out anyone. With no information, you don't have anything to "snitch" about. Sorry. Robert99

I know at least five people who had all of that information at that time and any one of us could have mailed it. Top on the list is Weber, or McCoy. Never a cold chance in Hell could it be the guy you claim. If you want the truth, talk to the SA's who ran the show on your end! Ask McCoy, you can find him. He is not hiding. Ask Geo. Tenant. The answers lie within your precious Bureau, not in any DNA tests. "Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right..." "Slap me on the back and say, he-he-he." Knoss, YOU wouldn't know (or admit) the truth if it bit you in the butt! Robert99

Sailshaw, If the DNA testing would only cost $1000.00 and "would solve this perfect crime finally after 40 years", then why don't you provide the money for the testing? You could recover your "investment" from your book profits and/or your media appearances in short order. Robert99

Jo, With all the time that Duane spent in jails and prisons, it appears that the fuzz always had the cuffs on him before he could finish that sentence! What kind of special glasses do you use so that you can see "codes" in Duane's service number where, in reality, no such "codes" exist? To repeat for about the 1000th time, your theory about codes in his service number is pure baloney! Robert99

Well here's a quick and easy start - You might know that Farflung would hone in on the lingerie company.

Forget the 99s, I think this calls for Mrshutter45 to see if he can trace a fabric or clothing manufacturer the same way he did with the tie pin. Switlik, Pioneer, and Steinthal are parachute manufacturers that I have heard of who produce parachutes of their own design. I don't immediately recognize the Standard Parachute Corporation name, but it apparently is a old time parachute manufacturing company also. I don't recognize any of the other names, but my guess is that during the war effort they acted as sub-contractors or licensed manufacturers to the major prewar parachute companys. So prior to WW2, these companys were probably clothing manufacturers, seat cover(?) manufacturers, or other such things. Vanity Fair may have been just such a clothing manufacturer whose machinery was also used to make parachutes or parachute components. Does Mrshutter45 have any experience or knowledge of the clothing industry during the WW2 era? Robert99

No but I looked in my old clippings and did find an article about a B52 that went down in the general area in 47. About 10 miles southwest of kelso? How close is that to the parachute find? Pilot and co-pilot were killed. Two passengers parachuted out. Both got help from people in nearby farmhouses. One injured critically - needed ambulance taken to Longview Hospital. The other passenger landed several miles from the crash scene and made it to a farmhouse where he got a ride into Kelso - This was his first ride in an airplane. he said "they hung a chute on me, told me what to do, then shoved me out of the plane". His name is Elmer L Taff - he was going home on furlough to Mertzon, TX. He was 23 years old then - maybe he's still around. Smokin, I don't believe that was a B52 since they weren't even designed until several years after 1947. Maybe it was a B25? Robert99

Have you ever looked at a REAL map of where that placard was found. Mark it on a REAL map not a flight map and then look at where witnesses where located. Read the witness reports....but, then maybe I am the only one since 1971 to talk to many of these individuals. They were NOT all over the map. The area of the most unusual notices of the plane was NOT in a normal flight path - these witnesses all lived in the areas for yr. Think about Cooper's guiding light! There were NO stars to be seen and little ground - he chose the brightest place within his range and that site put the placard where it was found....West of where he bailed which was not too far very far from Battleground - North East. The FBI was not really too far off with their seach. Jo, Flight maps ARE real maps. Tom Kaye and a member of the family that found the placard and knew the exact location where it was found, returned to that spot and Tom recorded the GPS coordinates in the WGS84 coordinate system. The point represented by these GPS coordinates can be directly transferred to ANY map that is in the WGS84 system and, with appropriate adjustments, to ANY map in ANY coordinate system. As noted in the calculations on Tom's web page, the location of the spot where the placard was found indicates, after the winds were factored in, that the airliner was on the southwest side of V-23 and within a very few miles (2 or 3 maybe) of the centerline of that airway. This is within the lateral limits of the airway and well within the "normal flight path" of aircraft on that airway. The above may not fit into or support your theory or mine, but that is the way the ball bounces, the cookie crumbles, etc.. How do you know that NO stars were to be seen? Stars couldn't be seen from the ground but the airliner was about 5000 feet above an overcast. It is possible that every star in the sky was visible to the airliner occupants. Robert99

Jo, Please read the following carefully. The winds were factored in. The winds were from the SOUTHWEST and would have blown the placard to the NORTHEAST. That apparently happened. There is nothing to indicate that the winds would blow the placard to the WEST. Please read the placard information on Tom Kaye's web page. Robert99

QuoteBlevins writes: IMHO sometimes common sense is lacking around this place. R99 replies: A brilliant observation! I agree with you and I'm sure several other people on this thread do also. Blevins writes: I'm surprised the Seattle FBI didn't figure it out. R99 replies: Maybe the FBI figured out that there wasn't anything to "figure out". Blevins writes: But when people don't play straight I will often question their results. R99 replies: Who is not playing straight with you? Can you list some names and examples of what is not "straight"? Robert99

V-23 is shown on a number of charts. If you are also interested in the topographical information, then see the standard FAA sectional chart that is used for VFR flying. If you are interested in the actual chart (or at least the navigational information) that the hijacked airliner crew was using during the flight from Seattle to Reno, then take a look at the Low Altitude Enroute IFR chart that is on Sluggo's web page (and brought to you at a cost of several hundred dollars). However, the airliner crew was probably using the Jeppesen version of that chart. Same information but arranged slightly differently. Robert99

Blevins, You have NOT heard me at all. I have just read you quote of Tom Kaye in message #35677 and, unless you have now modified it, I completely agree with it. Apparently you have not read or paid any attention to what I have written on these subjects over the last two or three years. I realize that your crusade for KC has had most of your attention on this thread but if you want to know what I have been doing here then you might try reading the thread. About three years ago, I wrote several short "articles" about the problems of times, locations, and other matters associated with the FBI maps. After studying those maps and doing some calculations, I used such phrases as "the times are not to be trusted", the "locations are not reliable", "these maps should be used with caution", etc., etc. If you are interested, you may still be able to find those "articles" on Sluggo's web page. Tom Kaye is aware of these "articles" since I gave him a copy of them. In addition, I have repeatedly stated on this thread (including within the last two or three days) that the Seattle ATC radio transcripts have been "sanitized". By that, I mean that someone deliberately (it could not have been done accidentally) removed all information that was necessary to determine the precise location of the hijacked airliner between a point about 20 miles south of the Seattle VORTAC until the airliner was just north of the Fort Jones, CA VORTAC. Let me repeat the above in plain English. In the Portland/Vancouver area, the FBI maps are not believable. The times are wrong, the locations (including those represented as being radar plots) are highly questionable, the one with a segmented circle around the west side of Portland borders on the absurd. No one has a realistic flight path for the airliner in the Portland area. That includes the FBI (unless it is still in their files), you, Tom Kaye, and myself. Blevins, you are saying that you must have a chart with a line passing over Tena Bar on it before you believe that the airliner flew over Tena Bar. No such thing apparently exists. But the money did find its way to Tena Bar. I don't think it floated down the Columbia River, I don't think it walked in by itself, and I don't think someone deliberately buried it there. That narrows the possibilities down to about a single one. Where is your proof about how the money got to Tena Bar? Where is your proof that the airliner didn't fly over Tena Bar? Where is your proof that the airliner was even hijacked? I look forward to seeing your proof for the above matters. Robert99

Blevins, I am so, so sorry to disappoint you. But if the numbers that are causing you some concern are the ones in the third paragraph, then relax. Those numbers are the very same ones that I worked up and sent to Tom Kaye by e-mail. I have just compared my e-mail to Tom with what is in that third paragraph. To repeat, they are the same numbers. Keep in mind that Tom Kaye and I don't necessairly have the same writing style. There is more than one way to say the same thing and each of those ways can be equally "correct". Also, we may draw different conclusions from the same data. Since you are a published author, I am sure that you must be aware of that. To clear up another point that you haven't asked yet, the location of the town of Toutle is not the same on the 1971 and present day maps. There was an extensive discussion about this on this thread several months ago. Farflung resolved the problem by showing what happens when you move the town of Toutle 2 or 3 miles west on the old maps. For more information, check the thread. This should not cause any problems with the placard discussion or calculations with the possible exception of the references of where the placard was found with respect to Toutle. WGS84 maps and GPS coordinates were used in the placard calculations. However, if I ever find the spare time, I will a good look at the maps again. But don't expect any errors to turn up. Robert99