Robert99

There are two alleged facts that point to Cooper having parachute experience, but alas neither can be confirmed as accurate. 1. Cooper located and examined the packing card on the NB 8 rig. 2. Cooper donned the NB 8 rig with ease. Doesn't matter if it was actually an NB 6 for the purpose of this discussion. NB 8 rigs have a VERY well concealed packing card pocket. At the Portland symposium I challenged a non jumper to find it on my stock NB 8 and he was stumped. When I asked another to put the NB 8 on and fasten the straps he had a hell of a time figuring it out. The chest strap arrangement is confusing and even I had trouble the first time I encountered an NB 8. Can I get an amen Amazon? 377 The two "alleged facts" 377 mentions above are in Tosaw's book and Tosaw cites Tina as being the source. If these are in fact "facts", then Cooper had at least a minimum amount of training/experience in emergency type parachutes but probably no more. Since Cooper was expecting to receive back and front parachute rigs, it is unlikely that he would have given any thought to making a jury-rigged attachment of the reserve to the harness until he realized he had no other choice. If Cooper did use some of the shroud lines from the other reserve to tie the first reserve to the harness, then in my opinion he was doing something very dumb and would have been much better to just jump with a single back pack only. Even if the missing reserve was fully functional, it is unlikely that it would stay attached to the harness if the reserve rip cord was pulled during a full-blown free fall. A 10+ "g" jerk or impulse load by a 225 pound jump load on a few shroud lines would be more than they could handle. So Blevins attempts to make a federal case out of what happened to the missing reserve is meaningless. Blevins could use the same arguments to ask what happened to Cooper, the money bag, the missing back chute, the missing food, the "bomb", etc.. Reportedly, an FBI agent stated that "Cooper knew just enough about parachutes to get himself in trouble." That seems to be a very accurate statement. Robert99

Jo, Just try to get a good night's sleep. The world will look better, and different, tomorrow. And you will feel better as well. Robert99

This cannot be good. Blevins, As I also pointed out, in all probability the pilot had glide slope information from other equipment on that runway. And the weather looked unusually good even for San Francisco in the videos of the accident. Robert99

Shutter is correct. According to some news stories, the new Captain had 10,000 hours of flying time in modern airliners. And this was probably just an incremental upgrade, not something as drastic as going from a DC-3 to a B-777. In addition, news stories stated that the co-pilot had 3000 hours in the B-777. There was a Supervisory Training Captain on board and he may or may not have been acting as the co-pilot on the flight. Further, there probably was at least a third pilot on board due to the 10.5 hour length of the flight from Seoul. Other news stories indicate that the ILS system for that particular runway was inactive. Meaning that the electronic glideslope was not in use. Nevertheless, there was undoubtedly glide slope information available from the visual glide slope lights. About 20 or 30 years ago, a stretched DC-8 crashed into a park in Portland when it ran out of fuel while checking a potential landing gear problem. Both the co-pilot and flight engineer told the captain that they were almost out of fuel but he disagreed. Ironically, the captain survived but the co-pilot and flight engineer were killed in the crash. The investigators concluded that the other two cockpit crew members had not told the captain emphatically enough that they were running out of fuel. The FAA then went through some exercises about Cockpit Resource Management. Meaning that the crew needed to act as a team instead of having a captain and two subjects. I think this accident is going to come down to something like that. On the matter of airline pilot training, I'll bet that Boeing has provided training to at least some Asiana pilots at the Boeing facilities in Washington state and probably has helped the airline with their own pilot training program (if they have one) in Seoul. Robert99

Blevins, Don't be so fast to knock Asiana. This type of accident has happened to most airlines. Be patient and wait for the NTSB and Asiana investigations to be completed and an actual cause determined. Robert99

Quote Or, there is another explanation more mundane/ordinary. The story of the scorpion comes to mind. Could you please relate this story of the scorpion for those of us who have apparently led rather sheltered lives?

Jo, First, let me ask what parking lot you are talking about? Second, you and Duane MAY have crossed the Flushing Channel in 1979 to and/or from the Tina Bar area to Vancouver. Third, you DEFINITELY crossed the Flushing Channel in 2001 if you went from Tina Bar to the Portland airport. The Flushing Channel was not there in 1971, so it would also have been new to Duane in 1979 and some roads to Tina Bar had also been changed. I'm surprised that Duane didn't tell you about the Flushing Channel or the road changes. Robert99

Jo, Here are a couple of simple questions that you should be able to answer with a "yes" or "no". 1. Did you see the Flushing Channel when you were in the Portland/Vancouver area in 1979? 2. Did you see the Flushing Channel when you were in the Portland/Vancouver area in 2010? A one word answer to each question will be sufficient. Robert99

Bruce, With all due respect, your "encounter with an interdimensional being" is a bit too much for some of us. I hope this being stayed out of your Cooper research. Robert99 Yes, Robert 99, I agree. I should have put a woo-woo warning on the post. On the other hand, it can be reassuring to know who the New Agers are amongst us! (smile). Rest easy, my Cooper writings do not mention any angelic encounters. However, I do discuss remote viewing in Chapter 28, though, so be careful when you read the book. Would you like a copy? I can send you an electronic version that has had two edits. No Index, yet, or Acknowledgements, however. No book deal either with a mainstream pub, so I am launching a hunt for a literary agent. BTW: In terms of a "Way, far out" rating scale, let's say 1-10, what would you give my Flight 800 story? 9.9? Just asking. Bruce, I must confess that I do not read New Age literature. It simply doesn't float my boat. But you are welcome to it. On the matter of the TWA 800 accident investigation, initially my first five guesses as to the cause would have been "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, and bomb". However, I do not now see any reason to dispute the FBI's version of the accident. Just keep in mind that the investigation was conducted with both the FBI and NTSB participating. Also, the head of the New York City FBI office, who lead the investigation, had a close personal friend aboard that flight. It was one of the most expensive aircraft accident investigations in US history and reportedly cost 100 million dollars. The FBI/NTSB investigators went to great lengths to reconcile all the witness statements. And in my opinion they did. They even released a video documentary to explain how/what/when each witness group saw and how it all fit together. That reconciliation was something like a group of blind people touching an elephant, explaining what they thought they were touching, and then having another group of people (hopefully not blind) explain to them how their "observations" were all of the same animal ("event" in this case). To summarize, I am not a New Ager and don't believe in UFOs. I'll try to view the program on Flight 800 when it airs, but I will be operating with the knowledge that the program would never have been made if it confirmed the FBI/NTSB investigation. Robert99

Bruce, With all due respect, your "encounter with an interdimensional being" is a bit too much for some of us. I hope this being stayed out of your Cooper research. Robert99

Good reply. You are in no danger. I don't know who you were referring to with the "vodka, Twinkies, and being a smartass" remark, but I don't drink vodka or eat Twinkies. You are entitled to your opinion about the smartass part. Nice to see you using vectors. Here is a true story from pre-history, it really did happen but eons ago. After finishing engineering type math courses through differential equations, I wanted to take an elective math course in Vector Analysis which was primarily intended as an elective for math majors in that day and age. In fact, I may have been the only engineering major in that class. During that semester, the professor stated that "you will probably only use Vector Analysis once or twice in your life". He was really wrong! It was perfect for fluid dynamics and today, most fluid dynamics textbooks start with Tensor Analysis on the first page. Times have really changed. Robert99

I'll bet your grandfather had the needed skills, knew how to keep his mouth zipped, and didn't try to take home any "samples" from the office. Robert99

Sailshaw, Would you be gracious enough to explain to Jo Weber what the future would hold for any Boeing employee who was caught trying to remove plans from the Boeing facilities of Boeing aircraft that were under development. Robert99

Both you and Robert99 are missing the main point I've been trying to make here all along. I'm not saying the Amboy chute was Cooper's. I'm saying the Seattle FBI's investigation into it, and the results they released, are not adequate. You two are either very gullible, or you have another agenda that requires the Amboy chute to be Non-Cooper. Blevins, Would you please explain your law enforcement training and background that qualifies you to tell the FBI that they don't know what they are doing. The FBI has already stated that the Amboy chute is not relevant. End of story. Your agenda has no need of the Amboy chute either, but you can always use the thread space to give the impression that you are, as you have claimed elsewhere, a "leading Cooper researcher". However, beating a dead horse doesn't qualify as research. Robert99

But let's see......what the hell do they know?? LOL.....Dang, you keep making my point for me. Thanks! and double dang...they no longer believe he jumped in that area!!!!!! this will be in my latest book "Into The Garbage" (laughs) (Roll eyes) (smile) Well stated!

Blevins, Your claims above are just more bullshit! I suppose that you are going to also claim that the recent activities of a fellow named Snowden means that he is a whistleblower rather than a traitor? Robert99

Blevins, Everything in all of your posts comes down to Christiansen. I did respond to your remarks about the Amboy chute. Since you obviously didn't understand them, let me repeat them in a plain language. They are bullshit! Robert99

Blevins writes: Well, there's no accounting for writing skills or in presenting a case via Yahoo, that's for sure. I'll give you that. You're probably right about that guy's article. Mine, on the other hand, laid out some pretty solid questions on why I think the Seattle FBI may have done a little whitewash on the Amboy chute. I noticed both you and Robert99 pretty much ignored the facts on how the FBI handled the whole thing. Do you really believe that the Amboy chute is made of silk and not ripstop nylon? You must...because that's really the ONLY solid reason ever forwarded by the FBI on why it can't be Cooper's. Yet no proof of this was ever offered, just the Cossey statement. And a lot of people besides myself doubt this statement. Robert99 replies: Blevins, be careful! Otherwise, you may throw your shoulders out of socket patting yourself on the back. You seem to feel that any piece of unrelated junk that comes along is suppose to go through the FBI lab's most advanced testing protocols. It would be a crime against nature if Cossey couldn't tell what was in the FBI agent's car trunk without removing it. And in case you haven't heard, the FBI doesn't owe you, me, or anyone else a detailed explanation of why they rejected the Amboy chute as being relevant. Blevins writes: I know why Robert99 blindly believes this explanation, by the way. It's because he thinks Cooper went into the Columbia at or near Tena Bar, and if the chute at Amboy was Cooper's, his theory would be blown from the water like the HMS Hood was by the Bismarck. Robert99 replies: Blevins, You need to start reading such things as the posts on this thread that are not related to your Cooper candidate. If you knew how to read and could understand what you were reading, you would soon discover that I have NEVER claimed that Cooper landed in the Columbia River. I have ALWAYS claimed that Cooper landed on solid ground. Blevins, You are in over your head. It should be obvious to everyone here that your sole purpose for being on this thread is to sell you book on KC regardless of lacking any valid evidence to support your claims. Both you and Jo Weber feel that you are superior to the FBI in the Cooper matter. And that is laughable. Robert99

Impacting the ground at 180+ MPH will not necessarily do any damage to the bills. If Cooper landed on top of the money bag, it would definitely be flattened but would expand somewhat after his weight was off it. And assuming that the money bag was tied to his stomach and he landed on one side or on his back, there should not be any damage, except possibly some detritus, human or otherwise. So basically, minimal or no damage to the bills from the impact itself. Robert99 my thoughts are how the shape of them would be after impact. pending on how tight they put the rubber bands around the stacks. did they double, triple the banding, or were they sort of loose in the stacks. I guess a picture of the bills before they went on the plane would be pretty handy right now. I guess the question would be is how much could the bills shift while banded? With rubber bands on the bill packets, there would be some deformation on impact and perhaps some of the bands would be broken, but the whole money bag should remain relatively intact. If Cooper went through some trees or landed on real rocky ground, the money bag could be torn to some extent. But even that shouldn't be a major problem. Robert99

Impacting the ground at 180+ MPH will not necessarily do any damage to the bills. If Cooper landed on top of the money bag, it would definitely be flattened but would expand somewhat after his weight was off it. And assuming that the money bag was tied to his stomach and he landed on one side or on his back, there should not be any damage, except possibly some detritus, human or otherwise. So basically, minimal or no damage to the bills from the impact itself. Robert99

Quote So, your use of the term "torque" IS intended to imply force(s) being applied from a particular direction .. resulting in rotation. (Why didnt you just say that, in the first place?) Direction would then be equivalent to, or indicate, direction of travel. IE the direction from which the money came ... as evidenced by 'the spin of the money on some axis'. Let's assume Tom's 3 bills he had to analyse are the 3 topmost bills from the bundles ... something we have no way of knowing. Let's further assume the bills were fresh and free to slide relative to each other ... noting the fanned out nature of individual bills in Tom's graphic. This may assume the bills are free to move and not stuck to each other ... so this is happening in 1971? Direction of force (torque) implies direction of travel? See photos attached. You claim there was a force from above and behind the money location? What force would that be? Rain .. melt water? You claim the money was headed toward the river but had never been "in" the river. What direction are you talking about and from where? Does it come across the Fazio property or does it arrive parallel with the beach length but above the river proper? Perhaps along the road between the river and below the Fazio property further behind? During high water (flood) or more slowly over a longer period? Just three bundles of money only? Ps: Now my feeling is R99, you have this worked out to a fairly hgh level of accuracy ... right down to precise elevation above the river yet below the Fazio property behind ... perhaps at the elevation of the roadway between the river and the Fazio property behind which winds in and through those bushes just behind where the money was found ... and since 'elevation' is commensurate with recorded river elevations by year ... I would not be surprised if you had this worked out to the exact year you think this money arrived, experiencing the exact force vector you think applies as shown and evidenced by Tom's slide on the rotation of the uppermost bills!? Yes or No ? Give us the year? I'm guessing Dec 1979 into January 1980 ? In synch with Palmer's theory? If not 1979 then my next guess is 1972 ... or lastly 1976? Nice theory as theories go. And the "force mechanism" you are relying on is: . . . . . ? I have marked the roadway on my graphic now. Furthermore, I speculate you think you know the exact angular placement of the money bundles, as viewed from above, as Ingram found it ... given that you have established a force vector involved? Yes? Torque is defined as a force that tends to cause rotation (that is the desk dictionary definition). To cause the rotation in "free body" systems, the force must be offset from the center of mass of the object by some finite distance. Consequently, the units of torque are foot-pounds (in the English system). Common examples of the application of torque can be found in the use of a screw driver, the tightening of lug nuts on an automobile wheel, opening a door by use of a door knob, and adjusting the angular rotation and vertical rotation of a telescope. And for my edification, why am I having to explain torque to an astronomer? A careful examination of the bills shown on Tom Kaye's web page shows that the bills were restrained on the left end of the packet. Apparently, the rubber band that originally held the packet together had slipped to within an inch or so of the left end but continued to hold the fragments from other bills even as the portions on the right end of the packet separated. The obvious conclusion from this is that the left end of the packet had grounded, or been restrained in some manner, while the right end of the packet was less restrained and the bills could move counterclockwise with respect to the left end. In the passing of time, the right ends of some of the bills completely separated. It is premature to speculate on ever movement of the bills from the time they separated from Cooper until they reached the location where they were found. But this remains an active matter of interest. The General Energy Equation, which applies to all physical phenomena, at least in the vicinity of the earth, is the governing equation. I assume you are familiar with this equation. If not, exactly where did you go to school? The matter of the time that the money arrived at the location where it was found is also an ongoing matter of interest. But as you have known for several years, locating the Columbia River water level records for the pre-1974 time frame has not been successful. That is, unless you found them and didn't pass the word along. But efforts continue to be made to develop more information on Cooper's exact splatter point and how all of the above matters fit together. In the meantime, keep the faith and stay tuned. Robert99

Jo, Maybe the FBI agents were the first people to bring up the subject of the footwear. They would probably also try to determine the brand of underwear that Cooper was wearing. Just the facts, please. Robert99

Shutter, In 1971 I think the Victor Airways were 5 STATUTE MILES on each side of the airway centerline, which was determined by a radial from each VOR station that was a part of the airway. In the present day it is 4 NAUTICAL MILES (or 4.6 STATUTE MILES) on each side of the airway centerline with some additional widths, based on degrees from the VOR stations, when the stations are more than about 100 NAUTICAL MILES apart. Robert99 thanks, I was under the impression of 8, I was close. Shutter, Let me clarify this a bit. The "width" of the airway would have been 10 STATUTE MILES in 1971 and 8 or more NAUTICAL MILES currently. Robert99

Blevins, My "theory" fits the "evidence" but not your "opinions". You need to check Tom Kaye's web page to see what his investigation of the rubber bands included. It was much more comprehensive and thorough than you apparently believe. The interviews with the passengers and two flight attendants started immediately after they left the aircraft and probably before the airliner had even taken off for Reno. According to information in the initial write up and elsewhere, the original drop zone was estimated from information that was available before the airliner even landed in Reno. And it was estimated by NWA personnel. Robert99

Jo, Your ability to dance around a subject is admirable. Robert99