Robert99

Odd indeed. Anyone care to guess why the redactions were made? 377 I wouldn't care to guess but do you know? Robert99

Blevins, Since you piggy backed the original post to another subject, I have changed the heading to reflect the change. First, did you note the term "technical information" in your Rataczak quote? Do you know what it means? Are you aware that the hijacked airliner was almost to Portland before the NWA technical people in Minneapolis informed the crew that they would probably have enough fuel to get to Reno? So, initially at least, the main job of the NWA technical people was to make sure the airliner could get to Reno. By the time that was determined, Cooper had already jumped and the predicted jump point was done in retrospect. Did you notice Rataczak's statement that "Where he jumped was up to air-traffic control to coordinate with our technical people."? This brings up the question as to what happened to the flight data that air-traffic control used to coordinate with NWA. Isn't it a bit odd that the required information was deleted from the Seattle ATC transcripts as well as other radio transcripts? Rataczak reportedly stated late last year that he was the only one who knew which side of Portland the airliner was on when it passed by. Does that sound like Rataczak believes the Blevins version of the flight path? Paul Soderlind and others presumably had all available data to predict where Cooper jumped and landed. At least they had MUCH more than we have today. How come they didn't find Cooper in the predicted drop zone? Or anywhere else for that matter. Blevins, here is a promise. If I ever deliver anything on the flight path to the FBI in Seattle, it won't be half-baked and it will be accompanied by a plastic bag containing Cooper's bones or some such indisputable artifact. Robert99

Blevins, Maybe the cops are trying to catch the killer, which is what they get paid to do, rather than provide fragments of information for some wild-eyed speculations by posters on this thread. So get off the cops backs. And same for the FBI. Robert99

***You piggy backed Robert99 and it failed!/quote] Yeah, Blevins, get off my back. I didn't know Patches anyway. He came along well after I passed through that age group. Robert99

Last week enroute to Vancouver, I made a specific point of driving the entire length of the Columbia River Gorge from east to west during a beautiful, sunny, afternoon with no cloud cover whatsoever. The wind cooperated a bit by blowing from the west at about 30 miles per hour. While the wind at ground level (the entire route is at sea level for all practical purposes) was sufficient to create an occasional problem in driving, it was not indicative of any wind problems at higher altitudes. In fact, the terrain along the Gorge is not very high and the wind would only cause problems, if any at all, for light aircraft flying at low altitude within the Gorge itself. Consequently, I see no reason at all to believe that an airliner flying at 10,000 feet above sea level, and about 20 or 30 miles (minimum) upwind of the Gorge, would be adversely impacted by any winds in the Gorge itself. The winds at Portland were relatively light both at ground level and at 10,000 feet above sea level and were no problem. The clouds and light rain at Portland were, in reality, no problem either. So as I have maintained before, the weather was not of any significance to the hijacked airliner as it passed through the Portland area. As far as I am concerned, the weather discussion is closed. Robert99

Quote when you get a moment could you jot in a rectangle or something on a map that defines this area ... even something penciled in on a map then scanned ...? ... to keep in mind for future referece. sounds like you and Meyer had a good fun trip .. I envy it! Thanks G Georger, I don't have a scanner at the present time due to my AIO printer having a disaster a few months ago and I am not going to replace it (but I am planning to get a separate scanner). The area of interest is shown on some of the photos you sent me a few years ago. If you can find one of your most detailed photos, with the money find location indicated, then the containment pond is clearly visible. I am looking at a 13 x 19 inch blow up of one of your pictures and the containment pond looks brown in color on this picture. There is now also a lot more vegetation than shown in this picture. If you can find a copy of this photo, then I can point out exactly everywhere Meyer Louie and I went. Robert99

Blevins, You need to start paying attention to what is going on here. For the last several years, I have stated that the FBI's flight path is not believable and have given reasons to support that belief. If you have valid reasons to support the FBI's flight path then this would be a good place to mention them. I suppose that you now also support the FBI's conclusions about the Amboy chute? If not, then why do you believe the FBI about the flight path but not about the Amboy chute? Why don't you just plainly state that the reason you believe one but not the other is because of your scenario about KC? Robert99

Blevins, That piece of paper you posted was NOT a flight plan. This was discussed and explained to death when you posted it. Robert99 I'm sure it was. (discussed and 'explained') Actually, it IS a flight plan. More or less. I'm not a pilot. Or it is crew notes on a map (weather map?) for a particular flight. The flight existed. And the names of the NWA crew listed are verified as past employees of NWA. All but one, which I could not discover. But then NWA was known for purging their employee files every few years back then to save paper. Ask Bruce Kitt. It's from a 1958 NWA flight that originated in Seattle, stopped at Shemya Island, and continued on from there. I couldn't post up the whole document. It exceeds DZ image restrictions. I only posted a small section of it. It was found in KC's effects after he died. We do have a few original documents regarding that guy somewhere around here....(*smiles*) Oh, yes. The big file cabinet over in the corner. Blevins, I realize you don't know anything about flight plans, flight planning, navigation logs, etc., etc.. But even the Great Blevins calling some pieces of paper one doesn't make them a flight plan. You don't even know what type of information is on a flight plan, who prepares that information, etc.. But you can bet KC didn't prepare the flight plan for any flight he was on. This was discussed years ago. You should get your memory fixed and start reading the posts even if they contradict your pronouncements. Finally, for you information, I have never attended any event in Auburn and won't be attending any in the future. Robert99

Quote Was considered - ask Tom directly. (The former Chair of Animal Husbandry U-Wash was consulted. He knows the Fazio's and has been at their farm...). The primary pollutants are methane, ammonia, and nitrates. Is there still a runoff retention ditch behind the road, behind the area where the money was found? Confirm three times or more, anything JT says about the Fazio property and its operations over the years. Im sorry but this is necessary. Georger, There is no "ditch", rather it is a "reservoir" (and a fairly large one) with that briar patch that shows in Meyer Louie's picture (with his cap) being on the top of the western rim of the "reservoir". I had not anticipated this "reservoir" being such a short distance from the money find location. Robert99Quote Yes its large by all accounts. I didnt see it at first on maps but then JT pointed it out to me. And there it is. I think the Faxio were more-or-less mandated to put it in to be in compliance with increasingly restrictive environmental regs. In addition the Faxio and JT told me they never really used the west pasture to graze or keep their cattle, but the east pasture immediately adjacent to the feeding lot. I expected to see contamination in Tom's bills but Tom didn't find levels high enought to warrant that conclusion, if Im recalling this correctly . Did you visit the creeks and area further in and east? you were once most interested in, if I have that correct? Georger, I can only speak for myself on this point but after seeing the containment area, and how it is relatively isolated from the rest of the Fazio property by small rises in the ground contours, I see no way that the money could have entered the river coming from the north, east, or south unless it was already within the "basin" that also includes the containment area. These small changes in elevations cannot be seen on any map that I have found of Tina Bar but are readily visible to the naked eye. Robert99

Blevins, That piece of paper you posted was NOT a flight plan. This was discussed and explained to death when you posted it. Robert99

Quote Was considered - ask Tom directly. (The former Chair of Animal Husbandry U-Wash was consulted. He knows the Fazio's and has been at their farm...). The primary pollutants are methane, ammonia, and nitrates. Is there still a runoff retention ditch behind the road, behind the area where the money was found? Confirm three times or more, anything JT says about the Fazio property and its operations over the years. Im sorry but this is necessary. Georger, There is no "ditch", rather it is a "reservoir" (and a fairly large one) with that briar patch that shows in Meyer Louie's picture (with his cap) being on the top of the western rim of the "reservoir". I had not anticipated this "reservoir" being such a short distance from the money find location. Robert99

I might be wrong, but seems like I remember that cattle or cows grazed the Fazio property. Would that be significant to your question? Yeah, the Aliens got 'em in '91. Don't you read the Mountain News, girl...pass that bottle of wine, will you please. Some of us are getting thirsty tonight. Yeah...I started to add ......"right before they were mutilated by aliens, but that's neither here nor there"......but I decided to respect the seriousness of the question. Okay...not really ---you just beat me to it.

First off, let me say that I agree with everything Meyer Louie wrote. I just arrived back home this afternoon and have now caught up on reading the posts. I have spent several decades living in the Arizona desert, as well as other deserts, and was a bit surprised as to how hot and miserable the weather was at Tina Bar. Even 126 degrees in the desert, which I have personally experienced, didn't seem to be that bad. Maybe there is some truth in the "dry heat" theory, which is usually viewed as a joke in my area. The views of Mt. Saint Helens and Mt. Hood, while standing in the same spot and only slightly turning my head, was impressive. And it was the first time that I had seen either one of them. Usually, it has been cloudy and raining when I have been in that area. The money find area seems to be almost entirely sand, with the exception of the road which is shown in Meyer Louie's photo of the Tina Bar sign with a car in the background. The road itself seems to be on solid ground. My guess is that most, if not all, of the present sand at Tina Bar has been placed there by the river dredging. Nevertheless, the containment area just beyond the briar patch (shown in the photo with Meyer's cap) seems to be completely sand. As Meyer has pointed out, any fluid in that containment area comes by direct rainfall or by runoff from the Fazio property. Nothing flows into that area from the river. Of course, if the containment area gets filled by rainfall and runoff from the Fazio property, the overflow could then drain into the river itself. The downstream (to the north) part of the containment area is very slightly higher than the southern (to the south) upstream part. Then the Fazio property slightly further south is also slightly higher than the southern end of the containment area. The end result of the above is that it is not very likely that the money would arrive at its found location by movement over the portion of the Fazio property that is used by their sand operation. In my opinion, it is possible that the money could have moved from a point approximately 100 feet to the north (downstream) or several hundred feet from the south (upstream) to its found location. But in view of the relatively high elevation from the normal water level at which the money was found (this can be seen in photographs of the original FBI dig operation), in my opinion it is very unlikely that the money moved any considerable distance in the Columbia River itself. While I don't subscribe to the Washougal Theory, I do feel that the money arrived at Tina Bar by natural means. And after Cooper was on the ground, that leaves only water as the means of transportation. So the Cooper mystery continues. Robert99

Somebody needs to ask this question and I guess I'll have to do it. WARNING - THIS QUESTION MAY NOT BE SUITABLE TO SENSITIVE POSTERS (BUT THAT IS PROBABLY NOT THE CASE IN VIEW OF WHAT GOES ON HERE). Does anyone know if Tom Kaye's team, or anyone else, has found, on the money or elsewhere, any evidence that would point to contamination by anything that would be fed to cows or excreted by them? Since cows today are pumped full of exotic chemicals, some of which may be even more exotic after going through the cow's system, just about anything is possible here. This is a serious question, no snickering please. Robert99

Robert99 - Just LEAVE it BE! Blevins is just being Blevins. At least he is NOT attacking other posters. Wish this thread could get back to the basics without long winded postings or someone strutting their stuff or making snide remarks or calling someone out. Perhaps we should self impose on ourselves postings not to exceed a certain word count...that would stop the bragging rights snide remarks and keep us on the topic at hand. If we do NOT stop the cycle NOW - it will be stopped for us...! Jo, As one who usually says about two or three times as much as can be said on a given subject, you are really the one who should follow your own advice. Robert99

That must be the famous Blevins side-step. Or is it just ducking the question?

Blevins, A simple question. What is there in your background that makes you feel qualified to determine if the conclusions that Shutter and I, or anyone else, arrive at are sound? Don't be modest. Just the facts please. Robert99

I get it, I get it! It is the computer program that fingers the phonies here. Most of the people on this thread can do that without the computer. Robert99

Bob, You weren't in the military correct? This wasnt a court martial, correct? So how does a "commander" sentence you to four years in prison? Law and parachuting are subjects I know something about. Ive been a jumper since 68 and a lawyer since 75. Still active in both. Your story about Duane making the jump with a chest mount reserve affixed to the back of a main bailout rig is not credible. Every jumper and rigger on this forum shares my opinion. It makes zero sense and wouldn't work. I'll let you explain the legal process that allegedly resulted in your four year sentence but it sure looks improbable at first glance. I await further details about this matter. 377 I think all the "evidence" went up in smoke man.... . . . and the smoke went up BK's nose.

Jo, What does the word "t-r-e-a-s-o-n" mean to you? Robert99

Blevins, You are beyond belief! You are the one who has been introducing "minute points" at ever turn as you try to screw up this thread. You have no interest whatsoever "in cutting through the crap" since you are the one who introduced practically all of it and keeps doing so. Your KC book, which I understand was primarily researched and originally written by others, wouldn't stand up in a kangaroo court unless you were "da judge". And don't feel that you are "a leading Cooper researcher" because you sure as hell aren't! Robert99

Blevins, To answer your question, Cooper probably selected the NB-6 because he knew it didn't come from McChord, was packed by a civilian, etc. Robert99 Same thing can be said for the Pioneer. But he didn't choose that one. Look...what about this. We know Cooper got the front chutes first, and had a chance to inspect them while Tina was busy with bringing the others on board. Why did he choose to pop the one that worked? Was it guesswork, i.e. he assumes both work and by chance picks the one that will open to cut cords from it? Or...did he check both first, realize one was a no-go, and pop the one that did work? No one knows this. But...if he did discover one was a non-starter and he pops the other one anyway for the cord...then you can safely assume he wasn't planning on using a reserve. If he were, he would have NOT popped the working reserve. He would have waited for the back chutes to come aboard and then selected one of THOSE to cut cord from. When you look at his actions when the back chutes arrive, i.e. immediately selecting the NB-6 over the Pioneer and checking the card, it makes you believe he knew what he was doing. You've made some assumptions, too. For example, you say that it was common knowledge that Search and Rescue radio beacons were used in military chutes in 1971. But how do you know when the last time was the hijacker ever used a parachute? Did he say he didn't want chutes out of McChord because they might have radio beacons? I have not heard this. In addition, the FBI heavily investigated both local and non-local dropzones and came up empty. I think if Cooper was a regular at any civilian DZ, the FBI would have gotten a lead on him sooner or later. This was a major part of the investigation for years. And Cooper was allegedly in his mid-40's, with a sketch out there as famous as the Mona Lisa. This sounds more like a guy who hadn't jumped in a long time, and certainly was not a regular at any dropzone, otherwise someone would have remembered him. So assuming he knew of the radio beacons in 1971 is a BIG assumption, unless the hijacker said so specifically. One of the biggest problems with Cooper being a civilian jumper is quite simple. No one at any of the dropzones ever fingered a suspect who panned out. If he wasn't a civilian skydiver, then where did he learn how to use one? Blevins, Stop the bullshit! As has already been explained to you today as well as in previous posts, Cooper specifically did not want a parachute from McChord. He didn't say he didn't want a military parachute. In 1971, it was common knowledge that military parachutes were being equipped with radio beacons so that Search and Rescue aircraft could locate and recover the crewmen. It doesn't make any difference if Cooper had ever jumped before, all he had to do was read the newspapers to know about the radio beacons. Presumably, you are aware that there was a war going on in Southeast Asia in 1971. At least it was so reported on TV and in all the newspapers where I lived. As I have already told you several times today, if Cooper had any sky diving experience during the 1960s, it was probably with surplus military parachutes. But in reality, there is no particular evidence to prove that Cooper had ever jumped. I believe it was Ckret who pointed out that Cooper may have been a kicker or load master on military or OGO aircraft with only superficial knowledge of parachuting. So stop trying to make another KC story out of a trivial piece of information. Robert99

Blevins, To answer your question, Cooper probably selected the NB-6 because he knew it didn't come from McChord, was packed by a civilian, etc. Robert99

Blevins, You continue to make assumptions that are based on wild speculations only. Following is a discussion of some of them. It really doesn't take any specific training to make and survive an emergency parachute. The "minimum" training for such an action used to be "jump, count to 10, and pull the ripcord". Prior to the development of civilian sports parachutes, all skydiving jumps that I have heard about used surplus military equipment. It was cheap, good, and hogged by the jumpers on the west coast, which means we had a hard time finding equipment on the east coast. All of my jumps in the early 1960s used surplus military parachutes with a 28 foot canopy that had been modified to a "5-TU" configuration. When the main canopy didn't get the job done, then the military surplus 24 foot reserve canopy did. I speak from experience on this matter. So you can not claim that Cooper was a military trained jumper simply based of the fact that he was familiar with military equipment. And it has been pointed out numerous times on this thread, Cooper said that he did not want military parachutes from McChord. It may have been because it was widely known at that time that the military parachutes contained a radio beacon to help the Search and Rescue people locate the jumper. If Cooper didn't originally plan to use a reserve parachute then why did he specifically ask for two of them? This is evidence that he intended to use a reserve chute as part of a back/chest two chute rig. If he did jury-rig a chest chute to the harness, it was simply a last minute action rather than something he had planned to do from the outset. Robert99

Georger, Let me point out that your use of the term "opened" above does not mean that he pulled the rip cord and looked into the pack itself. If he did, he would NEVER get that thing repacked in that airliner cabin. Any inspection that Cooper made would probably just involve exposing the rip cord pins by unsnapping the flap covering them and checking that the rigger's seal was unbroken as well as checking the rigger's packing card. This is a routine "pre-flight" inspection for emergency parachutes, as opposed to being a "pre-jump" inspection. It doesn't require any skill and only very minimal training. Robert99