Robert99

I'm sure we both would like to see some real test flow data! Can your Russian probability modeler handle problems with only non-numeric (alphabetical) data? Robert99

Not a bad idea. There have been flow studies, a number related to Vancouver Lake (Snow cited several) but nothing specific to Tina Bar that I could ever find. Maybe I was just too lazy... When Meyer Louie and I visited that area last month, the Flushing Channel between the river and the lake looked like it could use a good mowing and a lot of brush clearing work. I have never seen any water in that channel. Robert99

Earlier is better in this case. The money would have to be out of the bag for this to happen in my opinion. And, of course, an early date of arrival at Tena Bar supports Tom Kaye's conclusions. I consider Georger's Hypothesis to have now been proven and will not question it further. Robert99

It's time for Copernicus. As Shakespeare wrote somewhere, our problems are all in our stars. Maybe Copernicus can help us select more favorable stars. Robert99

Thats the simplest explanation, but how did the bundles get to Tena Bar? I cant reconcile that location with what I believe was the 727's flight path. That money find drives me crazy. I just can't see it getting from the plane to that beach with no human intervention. TK did a pretty careful review of the flight plan data and so did Sluggo. The placard find seems to correlate with their conclusions about the fight path, but it's just one point and the placard has never been conclusively tied to that particular airplane... although its highly likely that it came from she NORJACK plane. Everything was just fine until Brian messed things up with that money find. 377 I don't disagree with any of that. How far and how hard of a hike is it from where Cooper is believed to have landed to Tena Bar? If Cooper made it close to there before falling victim to the elements or injuries from his jump, the money find is easier explained. No need for a plant, no need for a wash down theory. I'm not familiar with the area, so maybe this isn't feasible. But I don't buy the WW theory and I don't buy that the money was a plant. Not many options left. 377, If the proposed flight path doesn't satisfy you mentally, it apparently does so emotionally on some level despite your doubts. Can the FBI (or whoever prepared that famous map), TK, Sluggo, and yourself be wrong about the flight path? I doubt if you have yet arrived at the point where you can give an answer to that which you yourself can truly accept. So if you can't find Cooper in the area where he is supposed to be, then he will be in the area where he is not supposed to be. Of course, this requires some mental adjustments. Robert99

Speaking of the WW theory, remember when Jerry Thomas recounted launching test packets in the Washougal? I think he said the results supported the washdown theory. 377 JT also told me a few years ago that one of the chase aircraft had a visual sighting of the airliner as it crossed the Columbia River far, far on the east side of Portland. Unfortunately, the chase pilots apparently don't remember that. All available information is that the chase pilots (the T-33 and the F-106s), plus Himmelsbach in his helicopter, headed for the southwest side of Portland. Even the so-called FBI flight path map (source actually unknown), gives a flight path on the west side of Portland for the airliner. On the WW theory, in my personal opinion, Tom Kaye has made a conclusive case for the WW theory being completely wrong. Robert99

Okay. Georger here are the facts again as shown in Tom Kaye's money analysis which is available on his web page. The money in Tom Kaye's illustration was clearly constrained only on one end when found. It may have had two or more rubber bands on it when delivered to Cooper but all the bands either moved to one end of the bundle or else the other bands disappeared and only one band on one end of the bundle was holding it together when it was finally covered by sand. Assuming that the Georger Hypothesis (that the bills were found flat side down) is correct, then the "fanning" of the bills took place while the bottom of the bundle was constrained by the sand and the top of the bundle was exposed to moving water. The "fanning" and removal of portions of the top bills in the bundle would require some time, perhaps two or three weeks. When the bundle was completely covered by sand, the "fanning" would stop. Then quite a bit of time passes, the Ingrams decide to dig a fire pit, and the rest is history. Other things being equal, and they probably aren't, the end of the bundle with the rubber band still reasonably intact would be restrained by the sand first. Then the lighter end, with the bills free to move both vertically and horizontally, would incur the most water damage. The water action that caused the "fanning" was counter-clockwise (as viewed from above) with respect to the rubber band end of the bundle. If the bundle was moving downstream in the Columbia when it lodged in the sand (see the disclaimer at the bottom of this post), then the bundle would be oriented with the rubber band end pointing toward the river, generally speaking, and the loose end pointing toward the shore. If the bundle was moving towards or into the Columbia from the shore when it lodged in the sand, then the rubber band end would be pointed upstream, general speaking again, and the loose end pointed downstream. In this case, the "fanning" action would require water moving into the river from the shore. DISCLAIMER: NOTHING IN THE ABOVE SUPPORTS THE WASHOUGAL WASHDOWN THEORY IN ANY (BLEEPED) WAY! Robert99

It's interesting, out of the 3 Bundles found by Ingram, 200 dollars was missing (ten 20 dollar bills) AND all of the 20's were missing from one bundle. Would you mind to disclose the serial number on your 20? If all of the 20's were missing from one bundle, then what was left to indicate that it was a bundle? Please remember that all of the bills were 20s.

Robert99 that was uncalled for - I only spoke about what was happening and regarding Blevins and Georger hashing it out over insults in Bruce's writing. You have a MOTIVE to silence me and I know this, but I try to objective. YOU KNOW I have actually presented to the FBI and/or others things that could help solve the case. Your post makes one wonder what your INVOLVEMENT is. Jo Weber does not attack - instead she tries to defend others to slow down and think how hurtful their remark are! Jo, You say you do not attack? You have personally called me the following names. In fact, I just listed them for you recently. Jo has called Robert99: 1. A troll living under a bridge. 2. A phony. 3. An ass. 4. A moron. 5. A plant from the FBI to keep the Cooper hijacking from being solved. 6. And probably others that I cannot remember right now. Are those claims "attacks" or just words of endearment? Now you write above, "You [Robert99] have a MOTIVE to silence me and I know this, but I try to be objective." Really? What would that motive be? Objective? Come on Jo, stop kidding. Robert99

Quade, May I humbly suggest that you start the banning with the individual who made post no. 46167. In my opinion, that would take care of about 50 percent of the "unchilled" comments. Robert99

First, let me point out that I have changed the title to better reflect my feelings on this matter. And, of course, I accept full responsibility for changing the title, whether it be legal or illegal. ATTENTION BRUCE SMITH: Bruce, you are hereby put on notice that if push comes to shove with RobertMBlevins, I will gladly make a four digit (before the decimal) contribution to the Bruce Smith Legal Defense Fund. And there is the possibility of future contributions to the Bruce Smith Legal Defense Fund as the situation develops. Further, I will consider contributions to any organizations devoted to such topics as "Truth and Honesty in Journalism" that you may chose to recommend to me. Robert99 P.S. Bruce, you know my real name, my personal e-mail address, and other people known to you have the same or more information about me. So we will be able to stay in touch. R99

No Basic or logic? I discussed this with Mr. H and mentioned the code in his little metal address book....before I ever went public. At that time I was unaware of the Coded message sent to the Reno (I think) Newspaper. This was done - BEFORE I ever came to this thread! I did not know what the message was until I was posting in the thread. When I talked to Mr. H in the early yrs I had NO knowledge of the content of the coded message sent to a Reno News. I had told Mr. H about the code in the back of the book during the early yrs before I ever spoke to the media....remember I had been into this for 4 yrs before I made media contact. It was 2000 and I was fed up - because OF no communications between myself and the FBI. Then when I cornered the agent on false information - I went PUBLIC. Good Night - just took my medication and I have an early rise in the morning. Lots of pain tonigh! Jo, If the above is suppose to show the basis (typo in the original post) and logic of your code system, would you please show where that information is located in your post. Robert99

Loosing track of who said what. A California paper received a note supposedly from Cooper with a number code on it....it telling them if they could decipher it that could find him. One of the older journalist there said they figured it was forwarded to the FBI. The code was Duane's navy and army number written in Code - it was in the back of the metal address thing he had. I had asked Duane what the numbers were and he said it was code for his Navy and Army number. This was during the last yr he was alive. My comment to him was "You were never in the Army". Remember I was unaware of the ARMY "time" until the brother provide the proof he was and Doug Pasternak provide the official proof that Duane was in the Army and the FBI had claimed he was never in the Army. Perhaps they did not consider a few wks If you can call a few wks being in the Army! He was DISCHARGED as an undesirable. That Code was on the same page as a Chicago phone number he was supposed to call if he was ever in trouble. This was discussed in the thread. Seems like the entire Cooper Story has become a Spoof. Jo, you keep saying "supposedly" I have never heard of this letter. if it had Duane's military numbers on it, that would be proof. but I don't recall reading anything about a coded letter sent. how could something "supposedly" add up to anything? Jo's claim that a "code" was created from Duane's military service number (Army & Navy) is completely without merit. There is simply no basic or logic for her reasoning. Robert99

NO I DID NOT MISS THAT - I AM WELL AWARE OF THE STATEMENT made by the stewardess - NOTE THAT CCHARGER NAMES A SPECIFIC DRUG - A FACT THAT HAS NOT BEEN ESTABLISHED. Go back and read the posts about this - "pills" to keep the pilot awake does NOT tranlate into Benzadrine, which was a prescription drug! I could have been NO-Doze or one of many over the counter stimulants. He STATED the drug as FACT! CCHARGER was leading and directing! How I pegged him for who he is - not just an interest party! CCHARGER is very AWARE of my BEEF on this and I have made it very CLEAR in other postings! Since this post is a clarification request it will not count as one of my 2 posts per day. I have NOT mentioned a suspect in either post. I happen to be in possession of research NO one else has - and I wll contribute that without naming a suspect. Jo, No Doze wouldn't keep a rabbit awake for two minutes. If you think otherwise, take a No Doze tablet at bedtime tonight and see if you are still awake 15 minutes later. Cooper was clearly referring to something above and beyond over-the-counter pills. Robert99

Jo, Just exactly which war are you talking about? You can rest assured that any contractor doing work in Area 51 after its creation was going to be closely checked out. And so were ever person working for that contractor. Again, even if Duane was doing construction work in Area 51, and he wasn't, he would not know what it was the end product would be used for. To repeat, the story is that very few people, even in the CIA, knew about the U-2 prior to Powers being shot down in 1960. Robert99

I made no error in posting about Benzedrine. It is a fact that Cooper had Benzedrine on his person while on the plane. His use of it was merely an educated guess. Why he would use it was merely speculation. I changed or edited nothing, and I stand by my post. IT IS NOT A KNOWN FACT WHAT DRUG IF ANY COOPER HAD ON HIM. FIND THIS STATEMENT IN THE FBI PAPERS - SHOW PROOF COOPER HAD BENZEDRING. OTHER WISE RETRACT THE ABOVE STATEMENT YOU JUST POSTED. CCharger just stated in the above post "It is a fact that Cooper had Benzedrine on his person while on the plane." This is quoted that from the post I am answering. PROVE IT! Really, Jo? You're asking me to prove one of my statements? When you have made a career out of saying outlandish things without a shred of evidence? I will not retract that statement because I know it to be a fact. Jo apparently missed all the remarks in books, radio transcripts, and on this thread that mention Cooper telling Tina that he had "pills" to keep the pilots awake if they needed them on the flight to Reno. Those "pills" would have to be drugs. Robert99

Jo, You can forget about Duane having anything to do with Area 51. He would have been shot before security let him anywhere close to there. The activities that were going on at Area 51 were not, and still are not, cocktail party gossip by anyone who actually knew. You apparently do not understand that the original reason for setting up what is now Area 51 was the U-2 program. The information on the U-2 program was very closely controlled. Reportedly, even most of the people in the CIA had never heard of the U-2 when Francis Gary Powers was shot down over Russia in May 1960. It is not very likely that Howard Hughes had a dedicated driver. Hughes liked to drive himself and to fly his own airplane. When he took his wooden flying boat up on its only flight, Hughes was at the flight controls, a flight engineer was seated behind him at a panel to handle the engines, and the fellow in the co-pilot's seat was a non-pilot business employee of Hughes. So dream on! Robert99

SHHH What is the significance of the gopher?

That plane was 1974. The plane I am referring to was 1962 to 1972 and was used for some purpose in Area 51 and remember this - men had to build the airstrips and the facilities prior to 51 being accessible. Look at the complete picture - the history of Area 51. There was some kind of contamination mention in a conversation between Duane and this other person and how long the land would be unuseable. Since I have DONE NO research into this - I know not what they were referring to. Please inlighten me! You are very very good at what you do. Do some more! Thank You!

Agreed! Yes CCharger - as your post make me raise my eyebrows and say out loud "Oh my God, what will he do next?" You did change two of your post as soon as you posted them and I caught it! The Eng reference the Benazdrine reference. Robert99 - the thread is not about me, but if you guys which to keep on probagating false information - then have at it! I am not standing in your way. If you didn't engage me or post false information I would not be posting today. Leaves of five are just fine, Leaves of three leave them be! I will be sure to only make 2 post per day by accumulating my responses in a generic posting - addressing no one other than any miss information about Cooper or flagrant responses about Jo or Duane. Also remember on the count - if you be that petty, that I am in Central Standard Time. Jo, I don't know if CCharger has changed posts on you, but YOU have changed posts on me in the past. And that is a matter of record on this thread. And if you didn't post false information, I probably would never have responded to one of your posts. Just exactly what do the last two paragraphs above in your post mean? Surely you speak in riddles? Is Central Standard Time involved in the tales of your adventures with Duane? Robert99

Agreed!

Jo, Surely you are aware that there were dozens of nuclear weapons tests, both above and underground, done near Area 51 over a period of several decades. And Duane and his buddies didn't have anything to do with them either. So don't start claiming that Duane and his drinking buddies were designing nuclear weapons for the US Government. It just didn't happen that way. Really! Robert99

the plane used to transport people to and from Area 51 is a 737 registered to the Department Of The Air Force. it's not black either. white with a red stripe http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=N5294M The Janet Airlines aircraft are ex-USAF 737s that were previously used as navigational trainers by the Air Force. There are quite a few of them, maybe 20 or so. I was told by an aeronautically qualified individual that he was in Las Vegas on business at one time and had arrived back at McCarran Airport with some time to spare before his flight out. He started working on his laptop and noticed the Janet aircraft coming and going. So he started plugging their N-numbers into his laptop and checking with the FAA data base in OKC. He checked quite a few N-numbers and every one came back as "No Record". I'll bet the Utah 737 wasn't a Janet aircraft. Robert99

Jo, The claims and statements you make in that post are absurd in the extreme! Duane did NOT have anything whatsoever to do with the Skunk Works (which is a registered trade mark of Lockheed), Area 51, or any US Government aircraft related activities that were taking place in Nevada or anywhere else. Duane never took you to any airport in the Las Vegas area that had any "black" aircraft programs on it. Neither you or Duane ever saw a "black" aircraft. And even if you did see a "black" aircraft you probably would never realize what you were looking at. And you can forget about Duane and his friends being beer drinking buddies of Howard Hughes. Those claims are to silly to even answer. On the Alien matter, I don't believe in such things as Little Green Men From Mars. I leave such matters to the Lunatic Fringe Group. But after your post, Jo, I am beginning to wonder. Would you be willing to have your DNA tested? NASA would probably be willing to do it. Robert99

If that is an Interphone, it would probably have a coiled cord hanging down from it. And I don't see one. Basically, the space between the wall that is just forward (toward the camera) of the "object" and the last row of seats on the right side of the picture (which are directly opposite the last row of seats on the left side of the picture) is a food preparation area (galley) used by the flight attendants. Robert99