Robert99

It is unlikely that Cooper was a military pilot, although he may well have been a flight crew member on military transport/cargo type aircraft. Cooper had knowledge of the 727 and knew that the rear stairs could be lowered in flight and that people and cargo could parachute from those stairs. The NWA flight crew did not know that. Robert99

Quote Has lycopodium (vs other formulations) been confirmed? Do you know? No pills or other artifacts were found in the lavatory - so far as I know. Did Cooper go to the lav simply to take pills - he spent considerable time there and communicated through the door. Kaye is not a chemist and I seriously doubt he has the mass-spec work to document particular forumulations - do you know? I think you have to be a little careful in this regard ... do you know? Thanks for sticking to the topic! I believe there is a remark somewhere in Tosaw's book of Cooper telling Tina that he had some pills to help keep the pilots awake if they needed them. So Cooper apparently had at least one type of pill on his person. Robert99

CCharger, welcome aboard. The use of latex gloves would presumably also include the medical field, such building trades as painting, law enforcement crime scene investigators, plus others. Do you have any suggestions for narrowing the possibilities down? Robert99

Blevins, you can't be serious about this. Because KC was a "nice guy" and "they couldn't imagine him doing such a thing", he is immediately suspected of being Cooper? Meantime, Duane Weber, a convicted felon who had spent decades in multiple prisons, is immediately dismissed as a Cooper possibility despite the zealous efforts of his widow, Jo Weber, to pin the hijacking on him. Is there some logic in the above that I have completely missed? Or is it just plain book salesmanship? Robert99

I can view medical DVD's but never tried to play music CD or view a DVD - wouldn't know where to start. It has Light Scribe DVD writer/CD writer on it but I don't know how to use it or what you use if for. I bought a portable DVD player - 9 inches to view DVD's other sent me. Expect I could view them on here, but do NOT have a clue how. I am a real DUMB ass when it comes to technology and remotes. I have a VCR that no one can figure out how to connect because of the converter box. Now that mean I have a really old TV. But it works. it will play DVD's. put the disc into the CD-Rom, a box will show up. double click on Media player and the DVD should start running. Jo, The time has come for you to bite the bullet and take Shutter up on his offer. He can probably also fix you up with some additional hardware that will help you. High capacity external storage units with up to 1 TB and USB connections are dirt cheap. Check your next cracker jack box, they may even be in there now. Get yourself an up-to-date antivirus program, set it up properly, and it will keep the bad guys away. Better yet, just don't visit any porn sites in the first place. You can get instructional software for various operating systems and such that is really cheap and will help you learn how to use your computer, the internet, etc.. It may be possible for your computer to have two (or more) operating systems and that could help you with your old files as well as permit you to get going with the high speed programs. Ask Shutter about this. It's up to you now. No more whining. Robert99

Until the airlines stopped it, probably sometime in the early 1970s, four cigarettes and a book of matches were part of the lunch and dinner service on airline flights. There was nothing unusual about the matches you mention. Blevins, your strange actions on the thread this evening are a cause for confusion. Don't you want to prove that KC was Cooper anymore? Robert99

Quote Where has Blevins published the entire closed thread? I thought he was forced to take that down? How did it become Blevins' property to publish? This wasn't very long after Blevins joined this thread. He downloaded and massaged the closed thread and then had a link to where he had the massaged thread online. My use of the word "publish" was intended to convey that he had, as I remember it, a public link that led to an entire DZ thread (even though it was closed on DZ) that he had removed from DZ and that he had posted at a non-DZ site. Perhaps he later removed it. But my question to Blevins is the same as the one you ask above. How did it become Blevins "property" to do that to a DZ thread? And was he doing the same thing under the table with the present thread? A few years ago, a legal dispute arose between the now late J. D. Salinger, of "Catcher in the Rye" fame, about the ownership of letters he had written to his former 18 year old mistress. His former girlfriend wanted to sell the letters to pay for her children's college education. As I remember it, after quite a bit of litigation it was ruled that the former girlfriend owned the letters but Salinger owned the words. Also, if I remember correctly, a wealthy admirer of Salinger's bought the letters and returned them to him. Consequently, they were not publicly released and the former girlfriend got the money she needed for her children's education. Robert99

Blevins, I do appreciate your efforts at humor as indicated above. Really, I do. Honestly. While I have not quoted your "legal opinions" about the Cooper case, it seems that most of those that you presented could also be applied to undermine your KC book and its theories. Alas, "legal opinions" and "scientific facts" are two different things. But now that you have (reportedly) lawyered up, I suspect that you are more interested in trying to milk more money out of your Cooper book than in determining the identity of Cooper. In your forthcoming Cooper book, which you have mentioned in this thread before, are you just ripping off the posters here on DZ and trying to cash in on their research rather than actually doing some research yourself? You might want to talk to your lawyer about that. You have already downloaded and "published" the entire closed Cooper thread. And I imagine that you are doing, or going to do, the same thing for this present Cooper thread. And you probably have other "modifications" in mind for this thread as well. Again, you might want to talk to your lawyer about that. Robert99

The Tom Kaye interview is Item 37 on page 4 of 6 pages of items. Robert99

Excuse me Robt 99, just because I am a 73 yr crazy delusional off her rocker old lady does not mean that you can discount my statements below. In 1979 I was with Weber when we stopped at Tena's bar and he went to the river alone on an early fall morning and witnessed his reaction to the money find in 1980 - concealing the News article from me and not allowing me to watch a TV program about the find. Then his quick exit from the W. and I did not know his exact location for about 3 months and even then all I had was phone calls. All of this was told to Himmelsbach and the FBI in 1996. I had never heard of the Palmer Report and could only explain the location in terms of my description of the sites we stopped at on that 1979 morning in WA. I would not know about the Palmer report until this thread. Kaye was unknown to the case in 1996 when I contacted the FBI. To say I have NO right to my interpertation of what Kaye said and what the Palmer report stated, is placing yourself opinion as the final word and that U have all the proof you need about how the money arrived on Tena's bar. This is typical of the FBI disclaimers & and other like yourself who have a reason to attempt to discredit me....remember BRR. I remember BRR also! Therefore you have a closed mind or are stating that the meaning of these reports are only as you understand them or that Jo is a liar. My story was told yrs before I never knew about the Palmer report or ever heard of Tom Kaye. Read this carefully and look at yourself in the mirror and think about what I have just stated and I have been repeating these things for 18 damn yrs. Before I knew about the Palmer report and before Kaye ever did his study. Now I know the connection between you and Georger. BRR! Jo, Just read Tom Kaye's interview that is online at the new Cooper museum and then tell me what he said. My understanding of his interview does not support your claims. Robert99

As for Vancouver - I only told what I learned from my conversation with the co-pilot yrs ago. That he could see Vancouver from his window - he was on the right side of the plane. The plane skirted Portland to the EAST! That or I was talking to myself....I know very little about planes or fight paths. Note: The green bag was a comment in the book or in my conversation with Tosaw. I DO not know the size of the bag or the color green (by the way I have NEVER seen a green garbage bag - not in Florida. I did NOT say he used it as a raincoat because he had a raincoat - a black one which I am very aware of - I was throwing ideas out as to WHY Cooper had a plastic bag - green and size unknown! A simple comment by Tina to Tosaw! So WHY would Cooper have a plastic bag in his brief case. I am sure Tosaw put this in his book - but, my memory is NOT that GOOD - I can not produce a page of his book where it is stated. I either read it in the book or it was in one of my conversations with Tosaw. I had NO idea why Cooper had a green plastic bag or what the size was - just the remark made by Tina to Tosaw. If it is not in the book then it was from a phone conversation. I was also exploring why Cooper would have a plastic bag...and why it was green. P.S. I expect I will find Tosaw's book and take it to bed with me! So I have a project - maybe you will consider me a viable researcher if I find the GREEN BAG remark! You think? As for Kaye - I have tried to understand the things he explained, but I have not taken his word to task other what has been stated in this thread. Perhaps you need to find the post - and you will find that is was more of the confusions about his research that was discussed. To me the Palmer report or letter is what I go by - that the money had been in the river for less than a yr. I forget the teminology that was used. I was under the understanding Kaye made a statement the money did NOT get on that river bank by natural means - excuse me if I take his statement to enforce what Palmer stated! I have a right to draw conclusion on statements made. I do not hold a degree in these kinds of things. Jo, You say there are NO green garbage bags in Florida? Okay, does Florida have garbage bags in the first place? And surely you have seen a green garbage somewhere. Maybe KY, CO, WA, VA, LA, or any other place in the USA. Take a look at the nose shape of the Boeing 707, 727, etc., the copilot can see to the left of the aircraft better than you apparently believe. The airliner would NOT have to pass to the east of Portland for him to see that city. And again, go to the new Cooper museum's web page, look up the Tom Kaye interview, and READ it. It's in English and you and everyone else should be able to understand it. Robert99

Jo and Blevins should visit the new museum display site, at the links provided a day or two back, and take a look at Tom Kaye's interview. Then both Jo and Blevins, if they know what they are talking about, are kindly requested to inform me as to exactly how I misquoted and twisted Tom's conclusions as they have long claimed. Garbage bags in the early 1970s were dark green just as most of the big ones are today. Jo, can you provide page and paragraph citations in Tosaw's book for your claims that he mentions anything about Cooper having a garbage bag. Cooper would not need to use a garbage bag for a raincoat since he was already wearing a raincoat. And after reaching 10,000 feet altitude a few miles south of Seattle, the airliner stayed there until it was in northern California where it climbed to 11,000 feet in order to clear some mountains as it turned toward Reno. So forget your pet theory that the airliner buzzed Vancouver, WA. Robert99

I had two links. Neither works tonight. One was a pdf the other an asci file list. I guess they have taken down the links or the site or something. I will try and rebuild this somehow and get back. Do you have data for '73? Was it included on the old USGS site when you were there? I think it was because my file of water level data for 74-85 which came from the old site iincludes '73. Its pre 1970, 70, 71, and 72 that were removed and archived where I emailed you about - If necessary I can do two things: go to the supposed new USGS site and make an inquiry there, or, go back to my original source and ask there. But I wont be able to do that until Monday. Also: I went through a number of back doors to approach the problem. Checking several of old bookmarks tonight I find a number have been reformated and the information (content) is no longer there, which is a shame. Maybe another Sequester cut. Try this for example: http://www.fema.gov/el/disasters/grid/state-tribal-government/89 Scroll down to 1970, 1971 ... Georger, Some of the Columbia information that we got several years ago goes back to September 1, 1972 and some goes back to November 1, 1974. Still other information was available on that site starting with later dates. You would need to take a look at the data introductory page to see what it was and some numbers that apply to it. So basically, we are only missing one to three years worth of data. And, of course, they are probably the most important years. I'll see what I can find online tonight. Robert99

Georger, Have you found the link to the pre-1974 Columbia River water data? I would definitely like to get my little greedy hands on that data. Also, I am going to make a post on the information that might still be obtainable through an FOIA request as soon as possible. Robert99

Bruce, Is it possible that you could get Robb Heady to join this forum? I'm sure that we have more questions to ask him than he has to ask us. And we need to talk to him directly. Robert99

The PI Cooper transcripts are 99 pages long and identical to those on Sluggo's web page. There is no obvious information on Sluggo's page about when he obtained the transcripts and/or their source. On August 20, 2008, the FBI sent a FAX to someone, presumably Sluggo, that was 17 pages long. Pages 001/017 thru 007/017 are now known as the "FBI Notes" and are not duplicated anywhere else outside the FBI to my knowledge. Pages 008/017 thru 017/017 are two separate and identical sections of the PI and Sluggo transcripts. So it appears that the PI had access to everything that is now in the "public domain" except the "FBI Notes". Robert99

Georger, Are the tapes of the original communications between the airliner and the Seattle ATC and the ARINC system still available? If so, who has them? Robert99Quote By the way, I did locate the pre 1974 water level data. If you want that I can tell you where to get it privately. Please send me a PM with the information. My personal e-mail address has been changed recently due to problems with would be hackers. If you don't want to go the PM route, get in touch with Shutter. He has permission (this sentence) to pass my current e-mail address to you. Or, you can confirm that your former personal e-mail address is still the same. Robert99Quote will PM you tonight - its crunch time here .. I can include Shutter if thats ok ... Including Shutter is fine with me.

Georger, Are the tapes of the original communications between the airliner and the Seattle ATC and the ARINC system still available? If so, who has them? Robert99Quote By the way, I did locate the pre 1974 water level data. If you want that I can tell you where to get it privately. Please send me a PM with the information. My personal e-mail address has been changed recently due to problems with would be hackers. If you don't want to go the PM route, get in touch with Shutter. He has permission (this sentence) to pass my current e-mail address to you. Or, you can confirm that your former personal e-mail address is still the same. Robert99

Quote The first official description of DB Cooper was given by Wm Scott at 3:54pm pst on 119.5 MHz (reel No.1 PI Transcript) saying: "305: Also, name of man unknown. About 6 feet 1 inch high, black hair, age about 50, weight about 175 pounds, boarded at PDX. MSP Flight options ok." Presumably, the description was provided Scott by one or more of the cabin stews: Hancock, Schaffner, and Mucklow. All descriptions delivered later are subject to this original basic first description. Georger, Are the tapes of the original communications between the airliner and the Seattle ATC and the ARINC system still available? If so, who has them? Robert99

Smokin99 writes: So we have transcripts that are incomplete and/or redacted vs multiple eyewitness memory accounts, 30- 40 yrs later, from people who were in the cockpit flying the plane. Ahhhh...the Cooper merry go round.

Shutter, Let me expand a bit on this subject. On the hijacked flight from Portland to Seattle, there seems to be no mention of icing until the airliner starts holding northwest of Seattle at the Lofall Intersection. As they were flying their designated holding pattern, they would pass through a small cloudy area and the crew told the controllers that they were picking up ice in those clouds. So the controllers modified the holding pattern to keep the airliner out of the clouds. While on the ground in Seattle, the crew was told that icing was predicted at the altitude they would be flying at but that it would be well south of Portland. As I understand it, they did experience icing south of Portland and that is what Rataczak was talking about. In the free atmosphere, icing depends primarily on the temperature and normally requires "visible" moisture. But along comes the airliner and as the air passes over the wings, which are designed to accelerate the air (and actually have to in order to produce lift), and as the speed over the wings increases, the temperature decreases, the humidity increases, and ice can form on the wings. It is all an interplay of various factors. Generally, wing icing takes place over the forward portion of the wing. Modern airliners have electric deicers built into the leading portion of the wings. But they are not magic. In some instances, the deicers can melt the ice on the forward portion of the wing, the water then runs to the rear portion of the wing, and refreezes there. To repeat, there are a lot of variables involved in this. Deicers are also used on the leading edges of the engine nacelles. These deicers may be used continuously from engine start to engine shut down. The point is that you can not have ice cubes going through the turbine engines if you are interested in staying in the air. Even if you make it home, a few ice cubes can do millions of dollars damage to a turbine engine. In the case of NWA 305, the best solution for their icing problem on the way to Reno would have been for the cockpit crew to put on their oxygen masks (they have a special system of their own for oxygen) and then climb above the icing conditions. FOR JO WEBER: Jo, if Duane had some rusted metal "parachute" equipment, then it probably didn't have anything to do with parachutes. The vast majority of the metal used in the parachute and its components is stainless steel and doesn't rust generally (I don't know what would happen if you put it into something such as battery acid). Robert99

Smokin, the only icing mentioned in the transcripts was well south of Portland. Robert99Quote If "We had another problem besides Cooper. Icing.", and Cooper was gone, or thought to be gone, then either they didn't know Cooper was gone, or the reference is before the 8:16-20 period ? In other interviews (Cook etal) Rczk has always referenced the icing as occurring early in the flight before Portland ... I can check but Im pretty sure this is the case. Please check.

Blevins writes: Well, good luck on finding an artifact. It's been more than four decades now and no one has found anything except the bills and a placard. So...any submission to the FBI is restricted to doing so if and only when you find an artifact? I thought it was about flight path errors with the creation of the original map, not locating physical evidence of Cooper. R99 replies: As has been pointed out numerous times on this thread, parachute harness, packs, etc., are made out of material that endures a long time in the wild. And, of course, the 2+ pounds of metal, in the parachute gear alone, lasts a lot longer. The problems with the maps have been discussed at length here in case you didn't see them. Blevins writes It's not 'my' flight path, by the way. I didn't create that map. I only said that until irrefutable evidence arises that proves the FBI is wrong, then I have to go with the official source. I don't see anything wrong with that position. Tom Kaye and his team explored this question and also said they could not find anything wrong with it. (flight path) You'll have to ask him how he came to that conclusion. R99 replies: It's probably a reasonable assumption that Tom Kaye and his team came to their conclusion because that is what they concluded from their consideration of the information that was available to them. Blevins writes: I've also wondered sometimes that if Cooper died in the jump, why wasn't he reported missing by at least one person? Was he a total loner? Had he no family? Sure, there are people like that. But this really narrows down the Cooper gene pool. You have relatives, friends, co-workers, your landlord or mortgage holder, all sorts of people who interact in your life. For a person to be completely isolated from the world and eventually not be reported missing by SOMEONE seems unlikely. Possible...yes, but unlikely. This brings up another avenue of research perhaps: Checking missing person reports generated in Washington State and Oregon between November 25th 1971 and say...March of 1972. R99 replies: Why don't you demonstrate your great investigative skills by doing that missing persons search? Blevins writes: Tom Kaye has already gone on record at least twice saying he doesn't believe the money arrived at Tina Bar by 'natural means'. Again...you should talk to him about this. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, either. You really should, and maybe pin him down better on WHY. I mean a heart-to-heart that goes beyond what is on the Citizen Sleuths website. R99 replies: Did you notice anything in Tom Kaye's research about what happens to money in water? Was he talking about money moving downstream? Didn't he answer the very questions you are asking? Blevins, it would be a good idea if you actually did something constructive if you consider yourself a "Cooper researcher", a leading one or otherwise, and do your own homework. Sending re-hashed information to various LE agencies, e-mails to their media spoke persons, is not research. Robert99

Just curious. Does anyone know when the transcripts were released to public? The transcripts on Sluggo's web page were Faxed to him by the FBI on June 20, 2008. I don't know if this was the first time they were publicly released. Robert99

Smokin, the only icing mentioned in the transcripts was well south of Portland. Robert99