Robert99

Zero proof about his parachuting experience. It's ALL speculation. His 727 configuration commands evidence some knowledge about aircraft flight characteristics, but not necesaarily about the 727 in particular. Frustrating. But that's life in the big vortex. 377 From what I have read about McNally. it appears he might of pulled off the stairs, I don't know. that's an action for experience to speak. (you or other jumpers) the plane seems to have been going a lot faster though, so that could be the reason everything was ripped off of him. including a pair of pants. he had two pairs on.... Didn't McNally exit over the wing of a DC-10 that was doing about 300 MPH? This is the fellow in Indiana correct?

I think the Wikipedia article has some significant errors. For instance Steele would have been a 31 year old paratrooper on D-Day with the rank of Private. I don't think it would work like that. And again, the book I read the story in was by Steele's Division Commander and it was not "The Longest Day" (although the story may have been repeated in that book). Robert99

It's not a theory, it's physics - if he jumped, he landed on the ground. well... he traveled somewhere in the direction of the center of the Earth in a parabolic arc at first, and he landed ... ? Note the ammo (money) bag around his waste! Hey I knew that guy! I started jumping in '76 at a little outlaw club in north central Illinois...the airborne soldier made famous by the steeple landing on D-Day was from Joliet. He would stop by the DZ about once a year to drink a beer and shoot the bull. I remember hearing the story well before meeting the man...I hadn't known of it prior and thought it might be a tall tale. Meeting him removed any doubts...cool guy! A few years back the wife & I were touring battlefields in France & Germany all summer...came across that 'monument' depicting the steeple landing, did some research on the net that evening only to find he had passed away of natural causes in recent years. I believe the fellow's division commander was Maxwell Ridgeway (I don't remember if it was the 101st or 82nd Airborne). When Ridgeway wrote about the D-Day landings, he described running through the city square area of the town, which contained about as many Germans as Americans at that point, and seeing the "poor dead American paratrooper" hanging from the church steeple. Ridgeway didn't learn until after his book was out that the paratrooper survived both D-Day and the war. But during the time he was swinging from the steeple, he did everything possible to appear dead. Despite that, the Germans did shoot at him from time to time. As soon as the ratio of Americans to Germans in the square got big enough, he managed to get down and get on with the war.

Jo, I thought that your previous claims were that you first learned about parachute jumpers from Duane when he told you about "all the fellows" he knew who were jumpers. You don't state what questions Bruce asked that were "demeaning" to DZ. But the last I heard, DZ is in fact owned by a South African corporation. Robert99

In 1963, I participated in a study, which was apparently sponsored or supported by the Parachute Club of America, to determine if such differences existed. My involvement consisted of filling out a rather lengthy booklet of psychological type questions and then returning it through my local club to the people who were doing the study. At least one poster on this thread has knowledge of a doctor who was interested in this subject, had a booklet of questions, and interacted with parachutists. The PCA related study was supposed to eventually publish the results from the investigation. But I have never seen those results or heard anything further about the investigation. QUESTION: Do any of the old timers on this thread remember anything about the 1963 study and if the results were ever published? Robert99

True. When you have run out of options, and things are still going down hill both literally and figuratively, the mind does reach a newer and higher level of consciousness. Robert99

Yes. The same poster who called you the above has called me the following (continuing with your numbered listing): 8. A troll living under a bridge. 9. A phony. 10. An ass. 11. A plant from the FBI to make sure the Cooper case is never solved. 12. Other things along the same line. Robert99

Guru, There may be actual psychological data to support your statements. In 1963, I participated in a psychological study (by filling out a rather lengthy booklet of questions) that was being sponsored, or at least supported, by the Parachute Club of America, which encouraged its members to participate. Supposedly, the results of this study were to be reported to the PCA membership in the Parachutist(?) Magazine in due time. But I never saw anything further on the study. Do you know if the results were ever passed to the PCA membership or published anywhere? Robert99

NO WAY! NO retraction. I do NOT have Cable and I have NOT been to the CIA web site - but if you have it please post the url. I would like to read it. I have read a lot of things about CIA and others over the last 15 yrs - so YOU have to be specific. Jo, Just read your own original post on the heroics and you will have all the information. No need to pretend otherwise and go through the motions of claiming that you just found the CIA web page. Robert99 Robert DO you have any idea how much stuff on the CIA has been posted in this thread & how much I have researched & usually NOT on line, but in books I read. I didn't keep a list of the books. If what I said is in an article or book you can believe this much. I had reason to remember it - as I had already heard the story or stories or the information. I have no military background. I have research subjects Duane mentioned regardind CIA and other things. I started to read anything I could put my hands on in 2000 after the FBI was CAUGHT in an OUT and OUT lie about Weber. THAT is WHAT started my searching....looking for the things Duane had told me about. I will go back to the posting you are referencing and will separate infomation Duane actually talked about from any other information I may have retrived or remembered for other sources other sources. It is probably a melting together of what I had been told and what I have learned along the way. If that is what you require then please tell me so. My time is limited on postings. Jo, Among other things, it would be a good idea to take a look at the dates this information was posted by the CIA on their web page. Maybe it would help you keep your time lines straight. Further, perhaps my personal knowledge on some matters about which you have recently written exceeds your own. And Duane's as well. You can interpret that any way you want. Robert99

NO WAY! NO retraction. I do NOT have Cable and I have NOT been to the CIA web site - but if you have it please post the url. I would like to read it. I have read a lot of things about CIA and others over the last 15 yrs - so YOU have to be specific. Jo, Just read your own original post on the heroics and you will have all the information. No need to pretend otherwise and go through the motions of claiming that you just found the CIA web page. Robert99

Maybe instead of going to the FBI we could convince the History/Discovery channel into having a Cooper Bowl. give each candidate X amount of dollars to fund the research and then go in front of an FBI agent pleading there case. the winner gets to go to Seattle and present all of the facts about who Cooper is/was? Plausible if you look what's on television these days..... Good idea. But Nancy Grace and her "juries" would probably want to get in on this and they are going to be tied up for a while when the next phase of Jodi's trial starts up in Phoenix.

Did 377 get a free yellow shirt last night?

Jo, We are waiting for you to retract this. It is not the truth. 377 Jo, When you retract the above claim, how about also admitting that your recent claims about Duane being involved in some heroic incidents are also false. And, further, the information on the incidents you described was based on things you saw on the CIA's web page and cable TV. Robert99

Blevins, Are you claiming that Boeing has stolen information from the Lockheed F22 program? Robert99

OHHHhhhh! Robert U do NOT know me. . . . . . Eat YOUR words! . . . . . YOU KNOW zero about JO. . . . . . Dumb Blonde Sydrome - I do NOT get jokes. And YOU do NOT know me! You are very close to having to eat YOUR own words in your original post. And this is NO joke! Robert99 Edited to add that the CIA's web page is another excellent source for the information that Jo tried to connect to Duane in her earlier post. R99

See the attachment to Shutter's post on this point above. Cooper apparently was the first one to mention 10,000 feet for whatever reason. But his exact statement may not be in any written record now.

Jo, You seem to feel that Duane was involved in every interesting program that you see on cable TV. Why don't you just say you saw it on TV instead of claiming you knew the author of some articles on the same subject. Or is it just a strange coincidence that some of the events you described above were covered on cable TV not to long ago. Are you infringing on the rights of the television people? Robert99

During the flight to Reno, perhaps in the Oakland ATC transcripts, there is a conversation between the controllers and flight crew. The point was that if the airliner went much above 10,000 feet there was a possibility of the cabin oxygen masks being deployed. They did not want that to happen because they thought it would set Cooper off if he was still onboard. The tone of that conversation was that Cooper had specified the 10,000 feet altitude. Nevertheless, the airliner did gradually climb to 11,000 feet in Northern California before turning toward Reno just north of Red Bluff. This additional altitude was needed to cross the intervening mountains. And the cabin masks did not drop down. As a general aviation rule, oxygen is recommended when the cabin altitude is 10,000 feet or higher. And that is especially the case at night due to adverse effects on night vision without oxygen. However, the flight crew (and Tina?) had oxygen masks in the cockpit on an entirely separate system from the cabin drop down masks. And the flight crew was told to use that system at various times. Robert99

Blevins, There are a few problems with your "guesswork". First, Cooper specified the 10,000 feet altitude while the airliner was on the ground in Seattle and then didn't mention it again. Maybe he felt that the flight crew could be trusted not to run into a mountain. Second, Cooper didn't say a single word about V-23 or any other route. Initially, he said only that he wanted to go to Mexico. But when told that the airliner could not fly nonstop to Mexico in the configuration he specified, he agreed to go to Reno. If nothing else, the above suggests that Cooper was not familiar with the range capabilities of the 727 with various configurations of the flaps and landing gear. Perhaps he was not as aeronautically qualified or as familiar with the 727 as some give him credit for being. Also, if you think Cooper is going to locate his position by a glimpse through an overcast and two or three additional cloud layers in the middle of the night and while in the middle of nowhere, then I can only conclude that you do not have a realistic understanding of the situation that Cooper was in at that point. Cooper never explained why he selected the altitude, speed, and aircraft configuration that he specified. And there does not seem to have been a compelling reason for stating more than he did on those subjects. Robert99

Jo should also delete all but a single copy of each of her lengthy posts. That would free up about a jillion bytes of storage space.

[Modified to make the cited collection clickable.] The URL refers to a three page Northwest Orient Interoffice Communication from George E. Harrison in Seattle and addressed to J. A. Rigby, Ground Services (location not specified). The second and third paragraph from the end of the memo states that the aircraft and crew returned to Seattle on Thanksgiving Day (November 25, 1971). Arrangements were made to have the passengers baggage delivered to them or picked up at the airport. "All the crew members" (which may include the other two flight attendants) were immediately placed on another NWA flight to Minneapolis and were not permitted to be contacted by the news media. The aircraft "received only minor damage during the whole incident" and it was immediately repaired and was returned to passenger service as NWA Flight 50 on Thursday (November 26, 1971). Robert99

[Modified to make the cited collection clickable.]

Agreed! Jo has not presented ANY evidence to support her allegations which, even after investigating, appear to be preposterous. As I have posted on this thread previously, Jo Weber is the biggest mystery on DZ.com. What is she getting out of this? What motivates her? Those are questions for a good shrink. On the other hand, Blevins is an open and shut case. He is here to try to make a buck. His claims to be "searching for the truth", or whatever it is he thinks he is doing, don't make it past the smell test. Robert99

It is perfectly conceivable that Cooper may have tossed money into the river. And if he did it upriver, that puts it over the flight path. No telling where it ends up. Tina Bar maybe. But the Big Problem with this 'it got there because he died' or 'flowed downriver by natural means' is because of the condition of the find. Nine years? In the water? Or exposed to the wet weather of Washington State? Hell...that money would have been mush and the rubber bands completely gone. I think my scenario on any possible plant makes plenty of sense. The timing of it makes sense, it is a close match to why the money was in such good shape, and it gives a solid motivation on why the hijacker would do such a thing. Blevins, Do you really believe that Cooper would be hanging on to some of the money FIVE YEARS after the hijacking? He could have converted that money to other currencies anywhere in the world in that five year period. As Smokin has pointed out to you, your scenario of a money plant at Tena Bar is not logical. Your desperate attempts to keep a "local boy" [read KC] as the hijacker and to have him survive the jump with no evidence supporting either of these ideas, means only that you are still trying to make a buck over KC's grave. Robert99

The aircraft was reportedly flown from Reno back to Seattle the day after the hijacking (this would mean Thanksgiving Day). The stairs did not drag the runway until the aircraft was going very slow and the damage to the stairs was minimal. There are pictures on Sluggo's web page (I think it is) of the aft stairs that were taken at Reno showing this slight damage. I took a still off the video a while back showing the stairs just after landing at Reno. it must of been soon after the landing. still presents of the dogs around. also look at the note on the photo named Tarmac. things I never took notice of while looking at the photo. Shutter, there is an even better photograph online somewhere that shows an individual standing just under the rear of the aircraft and looking up at the stairs which are closed in that photo. The picture may be from a newspaper. But it was taken from just a few feet from the stairs and clearly shows only minimal damage to them.