stratostar

Sometimes it's not just as in Boulder. Here is a quote from my own part 13 case, where the city tried to pull out the zoning card... I need a special use permit on a federal funded airport to conduct parachute operations, but now we are going to change the zoning to no longer allow. What is kind of funny is in my case they claim it's a recreational use, and in Boulder's case they are claiming it's not a recreational use.... you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Not covered by dz waver... let's see the model release the company has or the media co, that sold the media to them has, was the point. If I Joe fun jumper, jump with my buddy who is not an employee of said dz and he takes a kick ass pic of me, gives me a copy if it, I post it the facebook or DZ,com and some marketing or stock house takes that image and sells it to a company for marketing and they use it all over.... that is not covered by any damn dz waver, end of story! Nor dose the dz own the copy rights to said image if it's not done under a contract for hire with the dz. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

You might want to rethink advocy, where it starts and who it starts with... many people can't be bothered to give a damn, till it starts to happen to them too. Once one is let to stand, then that starts the door open. I think a lot of people better sit up and take notice.... you know wake up and smell the coffee. http://thesandpaper.villagesoup.com/p/flagged-for-zoning-violation-skydive-east-coast-faces-scrutiny/1114491 you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

That the best f'ing laugh I've had in a long time! you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

We've come a long way from the Fandango era... No still today not every place looks like Steve's or Rooks, but ah..... a little um, dusty and dated would be fair, would it not... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I call it the way I see, if you don't like it don't read it. I'm not standing in a court of law in a monkey suit, I'm exchanging concerns with in my peer group. I know good old Kim Gibbs and her band of flakes is reading this, I don't care, there is nothing here I would say to her face or to the county officials. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Do you spend a day on car lots when shopping for a new car? Yes you should visit all those you are considering and feel them out for vibe, condition of planes and gear... ect. The place look like this? http://houston.skydivespaceland.com/facilities-2/ Or dose the training area look like the attached? you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Sorry typos I missed and past edit times. My understanding is. They have the dropzone business located on the Boulder Muni airport, they were told they couldn't use that airport for an LZ from the get go, never rescinded. They then went and found a off site location in the county, on a farm in an unpopulated area. The county claims he needs a special use permit for that kind of land use. Along comes crazy ass bitch who complains to everyone she can and next thing you know this DZO is standing before the county commissioners who then told him you can't land there anymore and you will have to find another area, without providing any other suitable locations in the county for them to go. Special use permit not renewed and now business shut down till another LZ can be found. I'm under the impression that now the dz will force the issue of landing on the airport per FAR 105.23b. I believe they have already been told no and a informal complaint process is under way. If it was me, I would keep on jumping and landing there, making sure to not violate any FAR's, they don't need a 7711, it's not in a populated area. I would do it to force the issue, unless my lawyer advised me not to do so. I guess you could pull a 7711 just as CYA, it wouldn't hurt, but would the FAA issue one or get pissed off for wasting their time to do it when it's not required or needed. I believe the county is now placing the city in a corner and the city will now find it's self in a legal problem if they ban, limit, denied or restrict on airport landings, as I believe they have already done so in the past and this operator was being nice by going off site. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Are you talking about them fighting to use the Boulder Municipal airport for on airport landings or are you talking about them fighting to continue to use an off airport site, private farm property as a landing area? There are two different issues. The issue at hand right now is the county saying someone can't use a private property under 105.25 for a parachute landing area because they can't assure 100% on target landings and that if, for example some silly Crew dog got all tangled up in a flag jump and then rode a malfunction in and crashed into a vineyard, that it would be considered trespass. Did the cops show and bust you for that Top? No and we all know why. The future issue, I believe, based on my research, is that in the near future we will this become an access case, because now they have made it clear 105.25 don't apply in Boulder County. That means this DZO must find another place to go and he is already located on that airport as a business, he, like many places was told he could use that airport for an LZ, hint the off site area that he can't use now. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

yes you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

congrats, great news. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I understand your point, however just because that is how they have done it for years, don't mean that is how they will continue should permission be granted for parachutes to land on airport property under 105.23B. Please review AC 105.2E. http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_105-2E.pdf and AC 90-66a http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC90-66A.pdf The image attached shows a few legal areas on the other side from the sail planes and one along side them, and the swoop pond area too, LOL. So on the other side of the airport from the Sails, means they get to adjust what they do and have been doing and even if they didn't they are still required to fly VFR and see and avoid. *** AC 105.2E b.Additional Aviation Activities. A large number of airports that accommodate parachute operations also have different kinds of aviation activities taking place simultaneously, including flight training, glider and helicopter operations, Emergency Medical Services Helicopter (EMS/H), sightseeing operations, and aerobatic practice over or in the immediate vicinity of the airport. Many airports accommodate a large volume of transient traffic during skydiving operations. c. Shared Facility Airports. The FAA recommends that shared facility airports have operating procedures so that each activity can operate safely by knowing the procedures for each of the other activities. Representatives of each type of activity can operate more effectively by knowing the procedures for each of the other activities. Representatives of each type of airport user group should develop procedures specific to their activity and share these procedures with other user groups. Airport management must ensure that airport policies and procedures are kept current, which can be accomplished via regularly scheduled meetings with all airport user groups. (1) Traffic Patterns. With a minimum parachute opening altitude of 2,000 feet AGL (most parachutists open much higher), parachutes are nearly always open 800 feet or more above the traffic pattern altitude for any airport. Descending slowly and easy to visually acquire, parachutists and pilots have a shared responsibility to see and avoid each other. With a minimum parachute opening altitude of 2,000 feet AGL, parachutes are most often opened 800 feet or more above the traffic pattern altitude for any airport. Parachutists and pilots have a shared responsibility to see and avoid each other by descending slowly. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

It's called VFR flight rules for a reason, see & avoid. Having grown up on a dz and jumped a number of them that catered to UL's, sail planes and crop dusters and light GA aircraft, it can be done and done safely, but it takes everyone play by the rules and watching out for each other. craigbey they have been bitching about the HB's too and helicopters, if you go read all the BS she spews on that FB page you will see all the bitching by her and her fellow nutcases. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I would think that the county could find it's self in a spot with regards to hot air balloons, by allowing one type yet discriminating towards another type, kind or class of aeronautical use... after all has the County of Boulder pass any any limit, restrictions or bans on hot B's operating or landing in the county? After all HB's go with the wind and a lot of time they land on PP with no permission and it's not even considered an emergency.... granted the chasers will try to gain the land owners permission when they can't, but a lot of the time they can't find them in the middle of no where. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Yes that is my understanding, same as if you had to land an airplane or heli due to an emergency... however it will take a lawyer to explain that to the County of Boulder Colorado. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

You can read all about it here. http://www.bouldercounty.org/property/build/pages/docketdetails.aspx?docid=630 From an email I have from the dzo. Again this is why I said if this is allowed to stand, and is not challenged then kiss 105.25 good bye. And every dz in the country that is using an off airport landing area should be taking notice and and doing something about this case to help. IMHO this is a national case and issue! you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

No it's a great idea, let her piss off more of the local aviation community, that will rally them all to band together. With till she finds out that she will have to get a N number for her broom, then she really be pissed off. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Because she first got her panties in a wad over mile high's operation and couldn't get her way with that fight. She then took to going after Independence. Why? Well look at image one, Mile hi to Gibbs house is about 6.2 miles, image two shows that the Independence LZ is .6 miles from her house, image three shows the Boulder Muni airport is 3.5 miles away. The question you asked was: Having lived there, I can tell you that those tow planes stay right over the top and long the front range where the lift is and they hardly ever would fly out 3.5 miles over her house, same with most of the UL's. She couldn't win doing shit to mile hi so she got more pissed off about that MH plane and then must have noticed Independence landing .6 mile away and with her hard on for shutting down mile high not a winning deal she went after the little guy in a 182. Think about most 182 op's by the time they fly up and out 3.5 miles east of the airport how high up do you think that JP is? I bet pretty high, 3k or more at least.... The only reason she knew it was a jump plane in flight was the meat bombs coming out of it. So her house faces the west, that means her backyard faces the east and if you note in the fourth images that red line runs to the Independent LZ, that means little bitchy lady looks out her back door .6 miles away she might see a canopy landing... and seeing how she is so pissed off at not shutting down MH or getting them to meet her demands, it's like salt in a fresh wound every time she sees a parachute landing, let alone that 182 flying over head @ 10K making noise. What would be funny to see is and airport access case filed and won and then ATC forcing the jump plane to fly a box pattern much like MH does and that it places that box out over her house for the climb, you know, to keep them from climbing the same area where the sail planes are riding the ridge lift of the front range. She can't get mile high then she will get some one.... I'll get you my pretties! you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

There is more then enough compliant areas on that field, for some licensed and TDM's, students would be really tight. It's my understanding they were told no they couldn't land on that federal funded airport because of the sailplanes and UL traffic and they choose to go off airport to be nice and accommodating to the other airport users. Now the county is going to be forcing the business owner and the City of Boulder into a tight spot... I think in the near future there will an airport access case with lawyers involved, I base that on research, not just what I think. If they win and I'm sure they can with enough $$$, then Kim Gibbs can bitch all she likes about the noise and there won't be shit she can do about it, nor the county denial of landing on an airport as a land use issue. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Yes Edjglass920 was not looking in the right place on the SOS site. According to the A.M. @ SOS, they are making her move to the charity side of things. And to Elisha, thx I you had me confused on that RD post, good to know he is a skydiving lawyer. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

wrong region, try mountain, Ray Lallo you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

She has just made the claim again not all that long ago that it was a NFP group on her FB page. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

It's in the county and not the city. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

There are three important questions that need to be asked. 1. Who is legally in jurisdiction of air commerce? 2. Who is legally in jurisdiction of the national airspace? 3. Who issued 105.25 and would charged with it's enforcement? The answer is the FAA. It has always been my understanding that, for example, I wanted to jump into the Bronco's football game, I would have to 1. get permission from the land owner & 2. I would be required to file a 7711 and get a COA because it over a populated area in a city. 3. Give proper notice to ATC. But if wanted to jump into a farm in an unpopulated area, I'm only required to comply with items 1 & 3. I don't recall anywhere that is says I need the City of Denver's permission to do it, nor the County that Denver is in. Also if for some reason I'm forced to land out, I don't believe I can or would be charged with trespassing. The issue in this Boulder County case is one where they told the DZO that because he could not make sure of a 100% on target landings that would now be a trespass on property and that is why they denied this conditional use or special use permit... The landing out deal should be of great concern to all dz if this is allowed to stand. Again under FAA regulations, if I own a farm, like in this case, and I want to allow this activity to take place on my private property, it's legal to do so under FAR 105.25 and I can't see how legally the county can't stop it or require a SUP or CDU.... Sure they can say I have too, but that is where a good lawyer come in IMHO and of course big $$$. I believe that we will see another airport access case come out of this issue in the near future when a request is made to land on an airport under 105.23B. That all takes time and $$$ and until then or another LZ is found that he is allowed by the D-bags to use, he is out of business! That is BS. What is the name of the tent company? 10. JUMPS OVER AND INTO CONGESTED AREAS AND OPEN-AIR ASSEMBLIES OF PERSONS. a. Off-Airport Jumps. A skydiver may make parachute jumps away from the usual on-airport parachute school, club, or center location, as long as landowner permission is obtained for the off-airport location. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Let's see a copy of the model release. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo