stratostar

Very well put. Mr. Booth, Mr. Strong and Mr. Sherman the three gentlemen responsible for producing the majority of todays tandem skydiving gear, in all likelyhood, would not approve of such use of their gear for that type of tandem RW.(quoting) Let's not forget all of the testing that went to production of this gear (years worth) seeing how they invented it and have been at it of a long time, I would say that would make them the experts in the field of tandem jumping, I may not agree with their rules on the subject, but I'm not expert in the in the field of tandem jumping, there for I can't see going against what the experts say, if they say it is bad juju there is a reason why they say it and have the most experiance then anyone else to know. ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I would do that jump too, if I could pick the other jumpers and the passenger was experienced.(quote) I would even go with you as the passanger if you let me, and I trusted the others because I know and understand the risk involved in doing so. That is WAY different then a first, second, third jump passanger. It could get real ugly real quick. Every person I know that has had a premature opening didn't think it would happen to them, untill it did. ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Your tandem fatality example is an apples and oranges comparison. The camera flyer flew above the tandem during deployment and had a collision killing the TM. (quote) it don't take that much of an impact to snap a neck is the point, from above or below. By your own account then, half the TMs that responded to the poll in the instructor's forum, and said they would possibly participate in a similar jump, are "fucked in the head" too.(quote) Yep! It appears not everyone shares your sentiment(quote) I didn't think you or "they" would. But I'll bet my money that more TI's would agree with me then you. You're totally right!!! _I'm_ what's wrong with this sport!!! (quote) It's your mindset I'm talking about, you come across as if it's no big fucking deal, sign me up. My guess is you don't have a tandem rating if you did I don't think you would feel the same. Then again maybe you would. As I said with your mindset I'm glad I don't jump in the same airspace as you or others like you. JMO. ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

So you don't think that if the hangers main or reserve opened premature there is not added risk of, 1. smacking both and killing them 2. canopy tangles with the drouge 3. canopy wraps around tandem pair just to name 3 right off the top. And don't tell me that just cuz you corked and didn't kill anyone that it hasn't happened and won't happen again, the dz I worked this last season just had a TM get killed from a camera man!(non cork) Dude I don't know you or your jump numbers! However your out look on this is what is wrong with the "new kids" of todays sport and I'm damm glad I don't jump with you, thinking the way you do my guess is you won't last long, I only hope you don't take someone with you. I think anyone who condones this type of action with a tandem is fucked in the head and risking the livelihood of the dz should this happen here in the states, there is a reason why we don't do barber poles anymore, it's bad practice, not that you can't do it 100 or 1000 times and get away with it, it only take's one fuck up to kill someone else, why don't you track down the guy who took out Roger Nelson(RIP) or the camera man that took out the TM this summer and ask them how it feels to live with it, I have seen what it dose to someone to have to carry that load. Have you? How many friends have you put in the dirt due to an accident? In skydiving we call it an accident and no one goes to prison for it cuz we are jumping out of a plane. But if I run you over in the parking lot because my pedal stuck it's called manslaughter even though it was an accident. So with your thinking I guess I could run you over oops it was and accident, kick some dirt on you and carry on ,after all shit happens,right. ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

The Casa's had only been around for a season at the max(quote) I guess it was a UFO we saw in 94 & 95. ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Ummm......your transport / normal category rated aircraft just did an acrobatic manuever and no one was going to give it a look over for any structural stressing during the recovery? I've heard about that several times from several people and I have to say that was a pretty bad thing to do. I don't think I'd be climbing back in that thing until it had a thorough going over. But that's just me. (quote) And we have a winner! ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Well noted rob. The bottle tradition probably started during the Second World War.(quote) I was guessing, I do think it would go back earlier to at least the first few caterpillar awards or in that time frame? But I guess we will never know for sure? Maybe one of those real old timers (sparky) would know. ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

For fun? ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I say it's time to start a campaign to revitalise this inportant skydiving tradition.(quote) If I'm not mistaken it is a time honored tradition dating back to the last part of WW1 when pilots started to wear bail out rigs but still didn't trust in using them, so if a pilot used it "it took balls to jump out" and the rigger was rewarded with a bottle of booze, during war a good bottle was like getting gold and was the ultimate thank you,"I live today to fight tomorrow". The guy with the most bottles was the most trusted and the first guy to see after a mission for a good shot of booze. I agree that this time honored tradition should still take place, it is part of rigging history. I hear the most common reason in the last 10 yrs being "the 1000 jump rule" funny in some 35 plus years around this sport I don't recall a 1000 jump rule, just an excuse for some to not buy beer when owed or to not honor the rigging tradition. When we stop honoring our traditions we lose part of our history. ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Working my ass off all weekend and at the end of the weekend being told they can't pay me the money owed cuz they can't afford it! ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I see Clint Clawson giving advice to newer jumpers and fun jumpers all the time. He is the most approachable guy around. I don't see him doing it as much to "experienced" jumpers. Maybe he is afraid of getting a response along the lines of (quote) Clint was born into the sport and has been around it his whole life and would have a lot to offer anyone in need of learning. I don't think he would be to worried to say anything to anyone, but has the experience to know when to not waste his time. (Edit to attachment) This attachment shows young Clawson giving a team member of mirror image the finer points of landing techniques at about age 4 or 5. So if Clint walks up and say's something, it would be a good idea to listen to what he has to say, same would go for sparky. ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I'll take the floor I hate sitting sideways and 8 is bad enought to shoot video in with out packing in 10. But hey JMO. ` you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I thought that stuff was gen. knowledge.(quote) That is because most skydivers that don't also fly don't give a damm all they want is a cheap fix for their habit and are willing to turn a blind eye to substandard fuel and maintenance foolishly thinking that they will get out should the plane fall out of the sky. People who are pilots and A&P's know better and would not risk shit fuel in their high dollar bird, at least most would not. However history would show that part 91 operators (DZO"S) don't give a damm and will put that shit in their tanks and look you (joe jumper) in the eye and tell you their K-1 is Jet-A or have a tank marked 100LL and have pink shit coming out the other end. Most skydivers wouldn't know that you don't put green fuel 120 oct. in a 100LL or 80oct. aircraft or 80oct or 100LL in a plane that should have 120oct. But is ok to use 80oct. in a 100LL plane or the other way around, and you NEVER put Jet-A in any of the above unless you want to crash in a short amount of time. They also don't seem to understand that there is a reason that it is illegal to burn K-1 instead of Jet-A and you MUST have a real STC and the mod done,(not a photo copy of a STC from another aircraft with the numbers changed in the logbook) in order to burn mogas. They also don't seem to know or care to know that this is serious shit and you don't fuck around with fuel's just to save a buck! If more jumpers took the time to really learn what should be done in order to be in compliance we wouldn't see all the shady crap being done in this sport. You buy a lift ticket when you get on TWA and you have a right expect that they are using legal fuel and maintenance standards, just because we operate under part 91 and not 121 or 135 dosen't mean we should not hold the same standard of fuel's and maintenance be upheld.(read legal,not part 135) I think most people would be pissed to find out that their jumpship crashed with them on it because of substandard contaminated fuel being used in order to save the operator a bunch of money, all while they have been blowing smoke up the ass of the people who keep them in business without having a clue and trusting that the fuel is what the tank say's it is. Then again history would show that even when it has been shown that in deed some were doing so, they (jumpers) keep spending there money and keep that type of operator in business because it's all about getting their fix any way they can get it. If what I'm saying is NOT true, then there would be a few folks who would be out of the dz business, but their not. ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

We were putting 3 on the back seat (tight fit) four on the floor and one in the right seat next to pilot. All but the three in the back seat face the tail. ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

265 repacks 45 saves 10 last season ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

You are correct in a way, however people don't understand that jet-A is kerosene, and so is K-1, K-2 ,diesel ect are all kerosene. The difference is the refinement and storage of the grade of fuel your talking about. They look the same, smell the same and are the same in chemical make up. Some grades like diesel will have dyes added so the D.O.T. will know what your running in your tanks, red dye is off road and tax exempt, blueish dye taxable "over the road". Jet-A is clear and some K-1 is clear, but it also has red dye in it normally and is a much lower grade, kind of like the shit they throw away, so it is sold for heating oil but it burns clean with or with out the dye's in it, you wouldn't want diesel in your salamander due to the smell. jet-A has a much higher refinement and must be stored in special lined tanks with recirulation taking place on a regular schedule, and also would have special filters (more then one) in order to keep the bacteria from growing in the fuel and contaminating the tank and aircraft tanks & fuel system. Once the bacteria is in your planes tanks any clean fuel you put in now becomes contaminated. Jet-A also has a chain of custody that follows the fuel from the refinery to the storage tanks to the aircraft, this allows the fed's to trace the fuel in the advent of a crash. TWA flight # (your number here) crashed, the fuel left the refinery in mike's fuel truck # 30 at 9am and emptied the load into DFW's storage tank #2 at 10:30 am, DFW fuel truck loaded from storage tank#2 a week later and loaded the fuel in the flight that crashed. ECT. That is what makes Jet-A different from K-1. This is why some DZO's and aircraft operators have been known to burn K-1 instead of Jet-A, why buy the high priced high grade stuff, when you can buy the low grade shit for half the price and fool your jumpers in to thinking that the high cost of Jet-A is why they had to raise the jump ticket cost. K-1 is season dependent and much lower in the summer when no one is heating their homes with it. While Jet-A stays the same year long. ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

We had porter last season, if I remember what the dzo said it burned 12 to 14 gallons a load depending on what pilot was flying. I don't know about a 182 on the fuel per load or hour. But the porter carrys twice the meat and climbs like a raped ape with a -27 on it, 15 to 20 minutes to alti. 13.5 (load dependent)with 8 people. Our older 182's take's 30 minutes (appox) to 10k with out phat ass's on board and hot temp's (air) will make it climb slower. In other words the porter kick's ass, but if all you got is a 182 it's better then nothing. ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

And by the way, do you REALLY think that Mike Owens wants to jump with me? _______________________________________ I think he would welcome anyone to jump with him as long as their safe and not a complete jerk, ie willing listen and willing to fly their slot and able to handle constructive criticism and able to show some respect for others. If someone don't fit the bill then NO I don't think he would want to jump with that type of person. ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Like I said to each their own, I think it is foolish others don't. But I do understand your point. I can't wait till we see everyone here in the states doing it. In case everyone is wondering why I got an issue with this stuff, you all might remember where I was working this last summer had a TM get taken out by a cameraman. I don't feel free to post my real feelings on that theres person left living with it. Buy I will say who here would like to carry that load with them, sure that 3d looks cool, but is it work the risk, who here wants to sign up to live with the fact your joe cool act killed two people! I will say some of todays jumpers need to pull their head out of their ass and stop risking tandem students just to "live on the eage" & be the cool guy. ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

You are correct, we have talked via pm's. I was way out of line and in the wrong and acted like a dickhead for no reason, with that said DJL and I are all good and shook hands if you will. You are way too sensitive/harsh/easy to be offended. (quote) Again you are correct in terms of this posting. Hope this post clears the air. ~ Again you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Well to each their own. You won't see anyone I know doing a tandem in mexico or at any other country or dz that would condone this kind of stupid act. ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

That would be a former bored guy, who re-discovered that you have to stop (work) to have some fun once and awhile. While you maybe correct and I have taken the post out of the context it was ment could very well be the case. However what part of "we are having a blast" & "rediscovering the thrill of jumping rounds again" put the fun back in the sport for me, did he not seem to understand, the man who started this thread asked "has anyone else gone thur these feelings" My reply was big hell yes I have gone thru the very same thing almost to the point of quitting, then some crazy old guys talked me in to digging out my PC and joining them for a retro jump, and it put the fun back in the sport for me. So what part of all that is it that DJL don't seem to get? Yes I took it as telling me to quit jumping and to quit telling others to try a round canopy to experience some real level fear again that we who have been jumping 20 plus years tend to not have anymore. If I'm wrong and misunderstood,then I will admit I was wrong! Say I'm sorry and then go fuck off myself.... ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Why? you got some kind of problem with me, or are you just trying to be an asshole, you don't like what I do or say, too bad. I'll jump what I want to,you jump what you to. You don't like what I post don't fucking read it, as recall I wasn't replying to in the first place, so fuck off! ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Is there tax on av-gas and jet-A? (quote) Yes everytime you get some. If so what constitutes an exemption from paying this tax? (quote) None I'm aware of, unless you count DZO's that buy K-1 heating oil from the farmers co/op but call Jet-A and even they file av-fuel tax cuz you can't show "off road use" like a farmer can, if your a famer then you know what I'm talking about. ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I guess when we talk about "low" we have differing thoughts as to what that is. For me, it's sub 1000 ft in freefall at terminal, because I've been there (stupidly) both intentionally and unintentionally. (quote) Ditto, you know you low when you can hear people on the ground counting your fingers, and your still in freefall. ~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo