dudeman17

There does indeed appear to be lines with frayed ends coming off that container. It looks like there might be one coming off the top end of the one above it, draped over the nail that it's hanging on and over the clip. I'm at a loss as to why they'd be there. Stuff trailing from containers can have a nasty habit of snagging deploying parachutes and killing people. On the Cooper gear I just noticed that those lines weren't pink and the rest was speculation. Definitely a mystery. Is everyone sure that 377 never addressed this? That is a common thing to prevent fraying. Might have just worn off of the other ones. That also is an interesting statement, at first read it sounds like the training dummy, but it means he was grabbing 'student gear', as opposed to somebody's personal gear. Drop zones maintain and supply the gear for student jumpers.

If a drogue is attached to something, it is not with lines, but a bridle. A bridle is a length of nylon webbing, like a lanyard, that is flat, bigger/wider/thicker than lines. A pilot chute is also attached with a bridle. A drogue bridle is usually heavier/thicker than a pilot chute bridle. All a pilot chute has to do is extract the canopy from the container and pull it to line stretch. A drogue bridle holds the drogue in place at freefall speeds.

Perhaps Tiny Broadwick snagged one of her students in one.

Your knees in the breeze, your hair in the air, your rear in the atmosphere!

(This is probably sexist, but...) I would imagine that the first hanging harness was used when the first FJC was taught. I would imagine that the first time one was improvised for sex was when the first female took an FJC.

I'll trade somebody a roll of toilet paper for a haircut...

She probably didn't know. It sounds like he was still working that out when he sent her up front. It's also been speculated about what went with him, what got thrown out and why... The way he handled/took other evidence, I think it's pretty sure that he was not going to leave the briefcase on board. Whether he used it to hold money, whether he threw it out, I don't think can be definitively known. As for the dummy reserve, especially if he did open it, whatever parts did not go with him, it's possible that if he left any of that anywhere near the open door, that it got blown out or jostled out after he left.

You made a commitment, both public and private > you gained from that > you did not honor your commitment > your word is worthless. End of story.

A pilot chute and a drogue are similar in design and appearance. The difference is in the function. The drogue trails behind something/someone in freefall for the reasons stated above. The pilot chute deploys the canopy. In the 'cutaway' method of emergency procedure, then the reserve would have a pilot chute, and that's what is seen in that last picture you posted. Again, I would guess that any white material might have come from the dummy reserve. The pictures in the 'citizen sleuths' link: In the picture of the canopy laid out on the table, the lines at the near end, the far end is where the pilot chute would be, yet nothing is seen. No pilot chute on that rig. That bundle of lines between the hardware in the container is a cross connector. The parts of the hardware that can be seen inside the container, those rectangular metal loops, are where the parachute lines attach. That hardware goes through holes in the container fabric, and the other end are those hooks/clips that are seen in other pictures. Those clips attach to the D-rings on the main harness. If one of those attachment points were to fail on opening, you'd lose tension on half of the lines, the canopy would collapse and you'd go in. That cross connector would hold that side of the hardware and prevent that collapse from happening. Those lines tied to the side of the container is probably something Cooper did in an attempt to tie that to him. That those lines are white, and not pink like the ones on the chute in the picture make me think that they too might be from the dummy reserve.

Other than a misidentified pilot chute, there is no such thing as a drogue on a reserve. A drogue is a small parachute that trails behind someone/something in freefall. They can be used to control freefall speeds and/or stabilize whatever it is they're attached to. The military also uses them to extract cargo from planes. Modern tandem jumps use a drogue, then when the main is deployed, they double as the pilot chute. Joe Kittinger also used a drogue on his high altitude military test jump way back in '60. The white material might have been from the canopy in the dummy reserve. ---------------- Richard Blevins still posts as though he still has credibility. I am again reminded of the title of a book.

By drouge (actually spelled drogue), I believe you are referring to the pilot chute. (It's interesting to see that also mentioned in the supporting document.) In those days, most if not all front reserves did not have pilot chutes. In the emergency procedure for a malfunctioned main, you did not release the main before deploying the reserve. (That process is called a 'cutaway'. You don't actually use a knife to cut anything, that's just what it's called.) Rather, you would deploy the reserve canopy by hand, throwing it out away from you and hoping to get it past the main. Not sure exactly when the cutaway method began, but when I started jumping in '79 it was still in transition. Of the two major drop zones near me, one was teaching the cutaway method and the other was not. (That applies to student parachutists, who were still learning on 'gutter gear' [back mains and front reserves]. Most experienced skydivers were already using 'piggyback' rigs [main and reserve both on your back] and definitely using the cutaway method.)

5 miles out? I didn't realize they were so far away. I was thinking that the chase planes were there to see Cooper when he jumped, to locate his landing zone. That sounds more like they were there to locate the wreckage if Cooper blew the thing up.

I'm not sure I understand your answer correctly. The first word in your answer is "No". But your explanation of the redactions in the comm transcripts sounds more like 'Maybe". And your comment on the radio is 'it's not known', which also sounds like 'maybe'. A follow up question - Is there anything in the comm transcripts that does document communication between the jetliner and the chase planes? Those pilots were all flying relative to each other, at night, I'm certain that they would be in probably almost constant communication. And when the jetliner pilots felt the pressure bump and suspected that Cooper might have jumped, I'm thinking that the chase pilots would be the first people they would tell.

A question - A few days ago there was some discussion about gaps in the pilot/ground comm transcripts, and now questions about radios. Could either of those have anything to do with communications between the airliner's pilots and the military chase planes?

Here, I'll repeat myself, too... ---- That caption in your photo - You should read that over a few times. You should repeat it in your mind, like a mantra, as you get out of your chair, go down the hall, into your restroom and look into the mirror. (And before you misread another point, I'm not saying that to call you an idiot, no, focus on the 'must learn patience' part and apply it to yourself.) I suspect that you still think you're right in this matter. You're not. You've put more consideration for people who DISLIKE you over respect for people who don't. You made a commitment. You should honor it. And it's not really about the information. It would be healthier FOR YOU to do the right thing. And again... And don't make a knee-jerk reaction to this post. Think about it. Talk it over with Gayla. Discuss it with your buddy Greg while you're out camping. Mull it over. See what you think about it when you get back. ----- Geez. This lockdown crap. I've been sucked... into the vortex. Damn, what's the name of that book? Um, errr, wait... Oh yeah, HA HA HA

Robert, take a deep breath. Relax. I haven't 'joined' anybody, I don't 'hang out' with them. I like trippin' on the case, and nobody talks about it here anymore. Who these people are and what they do in their personal lives, I have no idea and it's none of my business. I've read some of the stuff you've linked to at Mtn News, and I agree that it's disgusting. What am I supposed to do about it? I've always treated you fair, because I take people as they come at me. This is going to sound corny, but I've always kind of liked you and your posts because you put a lot of yourself in them, and you've always seemed kind of forthright and earnest and old-school. There are some things that you've apparently done that I wouldn't agree with, but oh well. All that crap, all that bad blood between you and all the others predates my involvement, and I'm not sure what to make of it all. I've read your accounts, and they've done some pretty shitty things towards you. Why? I have no idea. But here's a thing, and you can laugh because I'm still trying to help you here, but - These things happened. How long ago? They're not going to un-happen. And apparently these people are not going to apologize and beg your forgiveness. All the railing you do about it is not healthy FOR YOU. You're getting older. That kind of stress will eat you up and KILL you. You're getting ready to move and I guess semi-retire. Hopefully the movie will do well and help with that. But what's Gayla going to do if you stress yourself into a stroke or a heart attack over all this. Forgiveness is not for them, it's FOR YOU. This Sky Sports stuff. It's really not that big of a deal. But it's parachute stuff, and it interests me. I was mainly curious about how they ended up with that dummy reserve. But now, oh geez, now it's some sort of super-trick triple-throwdown top secret info that has to be guarded like the Holy Grail. Really? And your stress over those other guys has caused you to renege on your word and abuse me, Flyjack, Haggerknew, and anyone else who was interested, even dw, unless you told him. I'm a hard guy to piss off, but you got me a bit frustrated. Why should you give a flying fuck what those other people might think about it. I hope you just wrote that faster than you thought about it. "Cause it's utter balderdash. I've never taken information from here over to there. I've made what, five posts there, touching on two subjects, neither of which came from you. If you told me anything and asked me to keep it to myself, I absolutely would. Geeeez Louise

I don't like involving myself in this sort of thing, but since I can't jump on this gorgeous day, I've got some time to kill. I'm not there for any drama. I like reading about the case. Occasionally I have a question or a comment - about the case. Why would I do that? You have nothing I need. I've sometimes asked a question here that you've answered, but your answers are often incomplete and indicative that you didn't understand the question. On the recent matter that I did ask you directly about, where I asked you to simply hold to your word, your response was abhorrent. Huh? The position where most of your peers in this case don't respect you? The position where one of the last people who gave you the benefit of the doubt no longer trusts you? Not in this matter. Not by a long shot. ----- I hope you do some soul searching while you're out in the woods.

Wow. Just wow. Don't address the logic. Don't respond to the ethic. Just heaping spoonfuls of food for the trolls. It's looking like you're the one who feeds on this drama, you write way more than they do. If... IF by this you're referring to the Sky Sports info... You don't own that info. They don't own that info. It's just part of history. IF this is how you're dealing with that, then you sir, are a swindler, a liar and a thief. And if you attribute that statement to 'jealousy', then you're also delusional. No worries. If dw ever checks in here again, maybe he'll put me in touch with the guy. If not, I know people from Kapowsin who should know who he is. Shouldn't be too hard to track down, I was just giving you the benefit of the doubt and hoping you would 'do the right thing' and do what you 'told us straight' that you would. The behavior you've exhibited doesn't go over very well with skydivers, especially old-school ones. Look, on the ground, wadded up and purposely thrown away - it's your integrity. Looks like it might have been there a while.

PM sent.

More paragraphs of the wrong answer. Look, I don't know the why of all the animosity between you and all those other people, and I don't really want to be in the middle of it, but I'm trying to help you, Robert. You say you don't want to feed them, but you do. It's been suggested that you ignore them. You said that for the most part you do. But you don't. Every time they say something, you come on here and rant all the same grievances again. That is you feeding them. They know they can get your goat, so they keep doing it and it works. Ignore them. It's the only answer for you. Stop responding to them, and they'll stop egging you. As for the info from the Sky Sports guy. Here's the ethical take: That information does not belong solely to you. You were entrusted by dw to gather it for us, and he/we expected you to share it, as you said you would. It is not yours to keep. Now, I seem to be the only one really interested in it, but it's parachute stuff, and the jump aspect is the main reason I follow this case. So if you don't want to 'feed' it to those other guys, PM it to me. It's the right thing to do.

I don't know if Robert Redford is an asshole, I've never met the man. And unless you know him personally, you don't know either. (I have enjoyed his movies, including Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid and its bookend, The Old Man and the Gun.) I was quoting William Goldman, who worked with him on a number of projects. But the point of the story was NOT about Redford. It was about the effect that Hollywood can have on people. Having lived most of my life in Southern California, and having had a few encounters with 'the biz', I can attest to that myself. And I'm seeing a bit of it here. As for jealousy, I think you were referring to the 'gallery', not me, but I'm not jealous of anyone. I set out for a life of adventure, and I've sure had it. I've had way more than my share of the funnest days on the planet. I wouldn't trade my dirty bare feet for anybody's. Robert, you talk a lot about telling it straight and doing the right thing, but I think you're dropping the ball on that here. I'm not privy to your exchanges with the guy that gave you the contact for the Sky Sports guy, but from the exchanges that I had with him, I don't think he gave you that contact solely for your own personal benefit. I think he gave you that contact because you, as a writer and researcher, would know the questions to ask him as pertains to the case. And I think he was expecting you to share that information with us, as you said you would. You told this forum, and later told me in a PM, that you would share that information. So are you a man of your word or not? I can understand your frustration with 'the gallery', as you refer to them, but I think you're being a bit petulant with the rest of us because of their actions. I'm not saying any of this to bag on you, I'm just trying to convince you to do what you said you would.

William Goldman, the prolific author and Academy Award winning screenwriter, in one of his 'Adventures in the Screen Trade' books, recounts the following story about Robert Redford. Goldman wrote the screenplay for 'Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid', one of Redford's early major starring movie roles, and arguably the role that solidified him as a star. Working with Redford, Goldman said, was a pleasant experience. He was personable, approachable, funny, and just a nice guy. A few years later, they worked on another movie together. This time, Goldman said, Redford was a changed man. He was aloof, curt, humorless, and generally an asshole. Of Redford in particular, and Hollywood successes in general, Goldman said, "I don't know what happens to these people, but it sure happens fast." ------------ Mr. Blevins, check whose house you're in. This is a skydiving website. I'm probably the last current skydiver who reads this thread. Most of the other older, current jumpers on this site think this thread should be shut down. Between all the bickering that goes on, and Derek's crap, they're probably right. You often use this place like a personal blog. Now I've always been fascinated by the Cooper case, and you've always (usually) seemed personable, and Flyjack often has interesting things to say, so I follow along. An old skydiver gave you a contact for another old skydiver who might have information on the parachutes that Cooper was given. You announced that here, even asked for questions to ask, and promised to report that information here. If ever there was new information on this case that would interest a skydiver, that would be it. Now you're going to hoard that information like a cur dog guarding his bone? I'm not the 'peanut gallery', as you call them. Against popular opinion, I've always been fair with you. That's why I tried to ask you about this in a PM. And you won't even read it? I'm starting to understand why people get frustrated with you.

That's an interesting position for you to be in. Being invested in the dz, you'll want tandems to resume when they can, but if you're unwilling to do them yourself, how will you feel about allowing others to?... Another factor is headwear. Most TI's, like most jumpers these days, wear full face helmets. Other TI's wear open face, or no helmet at all. Some old schoolers still wear frap hats. Myself, I've never liked full face, I always liked the wind in my face. Being old school (my 41-year anniversary was Saturday), I was a frap hat guy for most of that time. Some years ago I finally went to open face helmet for AFF and fun jumps, but still wore a frap hat for tandems. So a question would be, and I suppose the answer would vary for different helmets, is how much air gets in under the neck of a full face. My thought is that the full face would protect you from most of the wind (their breath), but what does get in would remain trapped in there, perhaps making it more likely that you'll inhale it. Hmmm...

Robert, please check your pm.

Man small Why fall? Skies call That's all - Keech