dudeman17

I was going to say the exact same thing.

Robert, I gotta say that your brain is denser than granite. You use the slightest excuse to redundantly repeat the same crap over and over again that has nothing to do with the question you've been asked. You are an absolutely unreliable source of information. And I'm guessing that you type faster than an auctioneer talks.

So... About that Sky Sports guy...

Hmmm, okay. Just what was said over there, especially a few days ago in the 'Tina Bar Money Find' thread, made it sound like no one was sure what was meant by 'oscillations'.

I'm curious if (and when) you've personally resumed doing tandems?

I dunno... Hydraulics are closed pressure systems run by pumps. To allow it to 'gravity drop' would take forever, and would not allow the door to 'free float'. The emergency handle would disconnect the door from the hydraulic system, allowing it to be opened by hand, and would also allow the free float. (There would have to be emergency handles both inside and outside for escape and rescue, hence the inner or outer placards.) Gonna have to find that video. Now you're the spammer, haha.

I suck at search functions, how far back would I have to go to find that video? (Maybe posted by 377?) I seem to remember it being hydraulic both ways. And the article was linked I think by Derek, of all people, so it may have disappeared in a spam purge.

Then it has to be just something else in the box that got snagged up with it. I don't think it's related to the parachute. ----- Flyjack, I have a question about the airstairs. In both an article and a video that were linked here some time ago, it is indicated that in their normal hydraulic operation, the stairs are either all the way up or down, they can't be lowered just part way. Supposedly Cooper had trouble getting them open, I don't know if there was a mechanism that prevented them from being lowered in flight. He then apparently pulled the emergency handle, which would disconnect them from the hydraulic system and allow them to 'free float' as was the case. (Does that all sound correct?) My question is, is it known how that compares to McCoy's and Hanneman's (sp?) experience with their stairs?

That white thing is odd. I don't think it's part of the gear, that container would not have any sort of inner liner or outer covering. It does not appear in any of Tom Kaye's pictures, and that ragged edge is not consistent with any manufactured parachute gear. It's weird that it does appear attached, perhaps it's just snagged? It seems to have some writing on it, is there any shot where that is legible? Those pics appear to be screen grabs from a video, would it be possible to upload the video to youtube or somewhere and link to it here? It might be helpful to see how it 'moves' with the gear as it's being taken out of the box. It has an evidence tag? Is it possibly part of the bank bag? Is it known whether that video is before or after Tom Kaye got his look at it? ------ Not sure if I ever posted this, but those non-pink lines attached to the handles of the container were most likely there when it was given to Cooper. I was trying to better remember that gear from my early days, R99 made a guess that turned out to be correct, I asked a rigger about it, and... On those reserves, the main attachment point (for both the container and the canopy inside) is those two metal clips on the top. But if that was all that was attached, the container would flop around, so the bottom of the container had to be secured down. On the original rigs those were designed with, the main container had a strap that was sewn on one hip, threaded through those side handles, and attached to the other hip. On later rigs, the reserve had a strap across the bottom of the back that would clip onto lower D-rings on the main harness. In that picture you posted of Emerick standing by his gear rack, I believe such a strap can be seen on the reserve that he is holding. On other rigs, they simply attached a piece of line to the handles and tied it to the main harness, and that is what those lines are. Again, it's nothing structural as to how the reserve attaches, it just holds the bottom of the container down.

I agree with Nabz. In any situation like this, there are always a lot of potential variables to consider. If the tandem canopy came out of the bag, it could inflate into a downplane. That it's attached to his leg by the bridle, inflation might be unlikely, but it could still end up entangling with his main, or it could snag something on the ground on his final, causing him to faceplant his landing, many possibilities. Getting it off his foot, it is unlikely that it would end up in his main, but it could and it did. A main thing, and I think it's an important point, is that he opened and executed corrective procedures while he was still high, and thus was able to eventually cut away from the whole mess and end up under his reserve. In any situation like that, altitude equals time, and both are your friend.

They're into necrophilia?

Obviously there's a lot of stuff in that article that does not match what is reported here and on the Forum, but one interesting thing of note is that Cossey claims that he supplied two backpack rigs, one of which was a B-4 sport rig. That rig would have the D-rings to attach the reserve. Yeah, it says Cossey believed that was the rig left on the plane, and that doesn't match the FBI description of the rig left on the plane, but still, it's a curious bit of info, the remote possibility that Cooper had a sport rig to choose from... --- It also quotes Himmelsbach as saying that 'half a dozen hijackers tried to pull off the same caper', some of which 'were killed in the jump'. Any truth to that?

You do? Maybe his reaction to the problem was good, but I see the problem as his doing in the first place. Poor/no exit count (as you pointed out) contributes to the cameraman being in a bad place, but pitching the drogue into the cameraman was a horrible mistake that could have killed all three of them. Pitching a drogue is like deploying a main - you need to clear your airspace.

Call the office at Elsinore and ask for Daniella. She likely has a contact for them.

This whole mess might be partly RBG's own doing. I heard a report that Obama asked her to retire while he was in office so that he could name her replacement, but she declined.

Again, who knows what Cooper knew, thought, or actually did. If this scenario makes sense to you and 377, maybe it made sense to Cooper. But here are some problems with it... The idea that Cooper pulls while still on the stairs to 'see if it works', with the idea that he can go back up for the other rig if it doesn't, that only works in the event of a total pack closure malfunction where the container does not open. Especially on reserves, which that bailout rig was, malfunctions are rare, and total pack closure malfunctions extremely rare. If the container opens and anything comes out, it's going to pull him off the stairs. Again, malfunctions are rare, but on that basic round reserve, if it does malfunction, it's more likely a malfunction of the deploying parachute. This might be a full streamer, where it does not inflate at all, which would be fatal. More likely is that it's more in the nature of a line-over or partial inversion, where it mostly inflates but is distorted. This would likely not be fatal but how injurious it might be depends on how much it affects the rate of descent. Deploying the parachute into the high-speed, turbulent air right behind the jet would actually increase the possibility of this type of malfunction. Perhaps not by much, as evidenced by static-line jumps, but even with those the jumper is falling a bit farther away/below the aircraft into 'cleaner' air. The parachute could snag on part of the tail or stairs. If it stays, he's trailing behind the jet. If it lets loose, the parachute might be torn/damaged. That basic round reserve is made and packed to open fairly quickly. In normal use, who knows how low the pilot/crewman might be when they bail and find the ripcord. At the 180-200 airspeed of the jet, that opening shock is going to snap the snot out of him. It's rare, but people have been seriously injured and even killed as a result of extremely hard openings. Would be better to freefall a bit and slow down to normal terminal of 110-120. But once again, who knows if Cooper knew or considered any of this.

That's all fine, and I've read that before, it's just that the poster 'Chaucer' had asked specifically whether a parachute container packed with money would float, so I was just commenting generally on that. Who knows what Cooper actually did, what his experience was and how he thought about such things, but... I don't like that idea about the money bag hanging below him, and here's why: If he jumps with the bag separated from his body tied to a line like that, it's going to trail behind him in freefall as soon as he exits. Such things have a nasty habit of snagging deploying parachutes and causing deadly malfunctions. If he tumbles on exit and it wraps around him before he pulls, all the worse. When the military does stuff like depicted in the picture, even on a static-line jump, that pack is attached to the body on exit and through deployment. After opening is when it's dropped below. That is done so that the heavy pack lands first, and unweights from the parachute before the jumper lands. A 20 lb. money bag wouldn't weigh enough to necessitate that. A modern exception to THAT that I've seen is, the jumper exits a tailgate aircraft with a full 55-gallon steel drum full of whatever hanging below them. That thing is going to hang below them even in freefall and not trail behind. They use modified tandem rigs with huge square canopies and freefall drogues. In freefall it hangs a bit below them, then after opening they drop it lower to better time the landing.

At least for my statement, I was not stating that I believe the tie was a plant. I was merely speculating the possibility. It seems that a lot of people on this case try to come to absolute conclusions about things that cannot be definitively known. Only Cooper knows for sure whether the tie was a plant or an oversight, or whether it was even his.

Suicidal? The odds are greatly in favor of Cooper surviving the jump. If he's got the nerve to do the hijacking, I'm guessing he has the presence of mind to pull the ripcord, whether he's experienced or not. If he pulls, he's all but assured of getting an open canopy. There's a chance of him being injured on landing, but not fatally so, unless he's unable to hike out and succumbs to the elements. A few days ago I saw the old Cooper TV documentary that showed Cossey making the statement that the ripcord position would make it difficult for Cooper to pull. I think Cossey was BSing the reporters. That rig was made for an emergency bailout by aircrew or aerobatic pilots, most of whom are presumably not experienced jumpers. Is he saying that most of them would likely go in for inability to pull? He packs those rigs and hands them to his clients. Does he expect them all to bounce if they bail? I think not. Even if he did change the ripcord location (as has been reported) it would still be in an easily accessible spot. Cossey was a jumper and a rigger. I don't think he was earnestly saying that and was wrong, I think he was purposefully feeding them a line.

The tie as possible red herring... I didn't know it took the FBI 40 years to start looking at the tie. I would've thought they'd do that immediately (to whatever extent they could at the time) as part of very little evidence that they had. I'm just imagining the possibility of Cooper at the Goodwill, seeing a 'filthy' tie and thinking, 'that'll keep 'em busy for a while...'

Some interesting, if not fishy information here. That gear is from an estate sale? Well, that gear looks familiar to me, and the person I think it may belong to, as far as I know, is not dead. That gear may be stolen. (The name on the log book is not familiar to me.) Also, a 'first jump' in '02 is not consistent with licenses issued in '59-'61. Might be time for a couple phone calls...

It's possible he did that on purpose, as a red herring.

Might that account for 'fragments'? Still curious how that might have affected Kaye's analysis. Did he find Clorox? Are there diatoms in tap water?

A couple questions... If the money ended up in the river and was deposited on the beach by the tides, wouldn't it originally be on the surface, before it was buried a bit by subsequent tides? Well, wasn't that area frequently visited by people/fishermen? Wouldn't somebody likely find the money before it got buried? Also, didn't I read somewhere that the Ingrams tried to wash the money (physically wash, not launder) before calling the authorities? What would that do to the diatoms, how would that affect Kaye's research?

Imagine the endorsement deal he could have gotten.