georger

Nobody is hideous here. Its just people working a very complicated problem with incomplete evidence. Its no wonder different people come out with different conclusions. That is expected! This has already come to be one of the very best discussions, ever to occur in any DB Cooper forum - ever. I hope you are all aware of that. Happy holidays to all and congratulations!

Dr. Edwards: A must read - D. B. Cooper and Flight 305: oscillations and pressure bump revisited

Without a doubt! He wanted the chutes back ... thats business/personal.

Early in this thread, someone maybe Bruce talked to Hadyen. Maybe its in an article by Bruce. But I distinctly remember Hayden saying 'if it werent for the FAA he wouldnt fly with chutes at all!'. The chutes were under his seat and in an emergency there wouldnt be time to get to chutes, in any event. So chutes were pointless'. He paid no attention to them and very well may not have even known what they were! ??? Maybe touch bases with Bruce on this. I seem to recall he knew Cossey had packed his chutes but beyond that he may not have known what his chutes were ? Most of Hayden's flying was aerobatic ?

Nice! .... its a long shot but who knows .... I hope some enterprizing person is reading this and follows up.

any photos ?

Does the chute found near Heisson in the South fork of the Lewis near the Heisson store, still exist? Presumably the FBI still has all of this evidence that could be reexamined ?

Years ago, didn't you speculate that Cooper pulled the rip chord while on the stairs - that there would be advantages to doing that? Who would know to do that? Novice vs. experienced sky diver ? Do you still hold to that view ? How could we know if Cooper pulled off the stairs? Can we ever know ?

NEW - DIATOMS ON TENA BAR MONEY: To my mind, the bottom line is that, with a reasonable degree of probability, all six of the Tena Bar genera are present throughout the year in the Columbia River, albeit with much smaller populations in winter. Therefore, I think that the presence of these genera on the $20 bill does not exclude an encounter between the diatom shells and the bill at any date between November 24, 1971 and February 10, 1980. https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/2500530.Robert_H_Edwards/blog G - ps: these diatoms still cannot be dated to a specific year. Specialists consulted have no idea what year these diatoms and the Cooper money came into contact. That information would be crucial to have so far as a Cooper Money timeline is concerned.

Well the obvious question is: did the FBI ever reject a chute, when in fact it was Cooper's chute, because of Cossey ? Or is the chute Cooper used and landed with still out there?

What's the context? Never mind.

Was Cossey ever explicitly told or questioned about Hayden's chutes ? Did anyone talk to Cossey before he died and try to straighten this out ? Why didn't the FBI clear this up ?

This is why we need experts who know what they are talking about. 'round' refers the perspective from which parachutes are seen from, as seen from the top or bottom. ! Thanks once again to Dudeman !

Magnum Opus by Flyjack ! wow! Likewise: an AI analysis of money/bundles after they have fallen ten k feet vs. condition/structure of the 'bundles with bands still intact' at Tena Bar indicates the bagged money never dropped 10k feet to explode on impact. This means Cooper and the bagged money did NOT drop 10k feet. The condition of the money implies Cooper parachuted safely at some LZ NORTH of the Columbia. Cooper/money traveled south toward the Columbia. Only a soft landing preserves the condition of the money as it was found years later at TBar. According to a witness who worked with Tosaw, this was part of Tosaw's rational for claiming Cooper 'made a soft landing in the Columbia close to Tena Bar'. A impromptu Cooper Support Group formed spontaneously by chance last night and then talked by conference call. We discussed the status of the case, the claim the FBI has reopened the case, the status of Blevins who is apparently moving to Missouri, transparency in CC24 aftermath, the work of Ulis and other Cooper personalities, etc. The chance meeting was very helpful and enjoyable and could be formalised to become a regular meeting, at a later date. Everyone supported the notion that the current list of personalities active in the Cooper chase, are failing to communicate and inform the public in a constructive timely way. BTW, no one in our group who met and talked Friday night has any information that indicates the FBI has reopened the Cooper case or intends to. ?

Black Box On Line Radio Expert announces that Tom's diatoms came from the Lewis River. (I heard it on Ryan Burns ..... ?)

The area where the money was found is uniquely situated to receive and convey debris, because of its position surrounded by high pressure and low pressure zones. It is a high erosion zone. Historically, due to erosion, Tena Bar does not even exist. It's an artificial creation. It is remarkable to me that a beach erosion hydrologist, Dr. Palmer, would not have said one word about this in his report. One salvage expert remarked to me years ago that 'if you were looking for places to check for things being conveyed down the river, Tena Bar is one of the places you would check'. This was the advice Tosaw was given and one of the reasons he financed dragging this part of the river. For these reasons above, I am torn about whether Cooper money was deposited because of river flow or because of the reclamation project conducted in 1974. I think it could have been either-or. This is why dating Tom's diatoms is crucial, but that seems out of reach. ? I dont know of anything which links the money at Tena Bar to the flight path of 305 or to any conceivable drop zone... Will people take any of this into account? Probably not.

Last time I checked there were three (3) standard theories about How Money Got to Tena Bar, based on the Standard Generalised Theory of Existence on Earth. 1. By natural means. This is includes flow and other standard forces found in a river basin. 2. Burial by a person. Kaye says his evidence rules this out. 3. Dredging spoils placed on Tena Bar in 1974. Members of the public claim the cutters in the dredging pump would have destroyed everything it sucked up and pumped ... *Others theorize the money landed at a higher elevation than Tena Bar close to Tena Bar, and was washed and fell by force of gravity to the location where found by the Ingrams on Tena Bar. Recently some people being interviewed about the Cooper case dont seem to have ever heard about these theories people have been discussing in forums since the year 2000 at Websleuths. These people are getting the bulk of attention these days.

Please continue to hold for the next available representative. We are still accumulating speculation. Have a nice day. *Keep up with FOX13 News.

Go Clemson!

Well said. Interesting. Thanks! This could be a generational thing. Style vs content. The problem everyone is dealing with now is more fundamental. The people who are working the case, have decided not to communicate about the case, PUBLIC ALLY. The public face of the Cooper case has died. People will lose interest but nobody cares.

What format do you think younger people (or just people in general) prefer today ? And why ?? Is it a mixed bag ? Tnx. Oh ... should Dropzone charge a fee to be here? Something that would help support their bottom line. I think people would be willing to pay that. I would.

People's internet choices-behavior has changed since the old Websleuth forum where Cooper was being discussed. I am told by a marketing specialist that 'forums' have been replaced by Facebook pages, Reddit, and the like. A schism has developed between the older vs.younger internet users with serious implications for the economics of older vs younger internet platforms. People's usage has changed! Advertisers have shifted where they spend their internet dollars. People's interests and the time they are willing to spend on the internet has changed. New is replacing Old. These changes have changed the whole DB Cooper landscape in terms of what the public wants, and how and where they will spend their time, and the content that is available. This may be what Eric Eulis meant when a few years ago he proclaimed: 'DB is all about money'! Libraries and how people access information has changed. You cant simply walk to the tenth floor today and browse Dewey Decimal Systems books sitting on shelves. Those books are now in some basement or in other buildings and you have to order them .... which takes time. My sense is there are a lot of DB Cooper consumers who could care less about any of this. What is this Dropzone DB Cooper Thread worth, monetarily ? If this disappeared would that be a real loss to the DB Cooper community? My sense today is most people could care less - ? I can tell you it's a subject Sluggo cared about.

Well, my grandmother's statement to us over the phone Thanksgiving Day 1971 was: "The plane went over here and was on fire". We were shocked. I told my grandmother, "I havent heard anything like that on the news". Our TV was on in the background with Walter Conkrite giving an update. He hadnt said anything about the plane being on fire, or having exploded, or crashed ... there wasnt anything in my grandmother's statement about 'seeing Cooper jump'. I didnt ask my grandmother if she had personally seen this or what the basis for her statement was. We began discussing family matters because we had no personal interest in some airplane hijacking that was going on thousands of miles away ... I never knew who or what my grandmother's statement was based on. If there are people who claim they saw DB Cooper jump from 305 let them stand up and give their stories. Nobody needs a broker or a handler to simply state their claims. What more can anyone say about this ? I am surprised all of this is being brought up again - I thought this was settled years ago in the Cooper thread, as much as it could be settled ... Frankly, I almost wish I had never brought any of this up! I am sure all kinds of people made all kinds of claims during and after the hijacking.

Janet Wink did not disappear, far from it. She and her husband continued to live in the area and work at Wilhelm Trucking.. may have even retired there, but eventually got divorced, and moved on. Janet moved east... Illinois? Ohio? I am sure Mr. Cook knows where she is. But they worked with a relative of mine and may have even attended the same church. By the time I was looking at this the people in my family who may have worked with and known the Winks, were all deceased or living somewhere else. I assume Mr. Cook interviewed all of the people he could find that had any connection with Tosaw's Janet Wink story. . Wink's story was published in the media. I am not sure if the old thread with this story is even available now here at DZ ? I searched and couldnt find anything. Maybe a search at Shutter's site will turn something up. If the Winks called the FBI then there would be a record... ???

When Cook releases the names of his witnesses, then the world will know. Until then its just a story except in the Old Thread, if you recall, Tosaw was at a book signing and was approached by a woman named Janet Wink who said she and her husband were backing out of their driveway and saw (what had to be) a plane going over from east to west, and something or someone with a flare dropping from the plane. They surmised this had to be the Cooper plane and they called or wrote the FBI and finally 'two suits' showed up at their door and told them to 'stfu' and never repeat the story again! The couple apparently followed these instructions until years later Janet Wink approached Richard Tosaw at a book signing, and conveyed the story to Tosaw. I forget the year, but didnt Cook release this to the press... and it was published everywhere and discussed here at DZ years ago. The Winks worked at Wilhelm Trucking in Portland. It seems reasonable to think their story got circulated and was picked up by others at Wilhelm Trucking. Wouldnt there have been a red light on the left wing tip as the plane went over? Blinking?