georger

relationships are everything, and the next. tov miod.

received and understand . . . Wash took down USC at Seattle today! Holy shit! Iowa over AZ!

In like manner I can have the hyjacking be a political event, Cooper lands exactly where Sluggo suggested and walks out, years later he or an accomplice return and bury money in a public place (right at Himmelsbach's back door!) to foster the ongoing thesis he died.

You told me about it, said you would deliver it, but I have never received anything ???

What is illogical? The bag and Cooper going down the Washougal! Even if Cooper was separated from his bag - the bag could not have gone down the river intact and survived 8 yrs. If you don't believe me make a trip to WA and go to the Washougal... The river goes from wide to narrow (depending on the weather) and with lots of large rocks. When I was there the water was moving very rapidly - no way would I be in that river. I understand the Washougal has its quieter times, but both time I saw it - it was raging (not quiet). Several points: (1) The issue is not water landing. The odds are humongous against that. So, the issue cannot be water-to-water conveyance, ie. Washougal to Columbia to Tina Bar. Something else has to be involved and come first, and the odds back that up. Some other set of factors had to deliver the money to water before any water could convey to anywhere. Water is restricted to specific areas along any proposed flight path. If something does not deliver the money to water, then water did not convey the money to Tina Bar... (2) It is not just Washougal to Tina Bar. There is nothing magical about Washougal that pre-destines Tina Bar as the resting place. For the money to begin in the Washougal or at Camas and wind up at T_Bar the money must negotiate a long series of passages and hurdles. All debris flowing down the Columbia DOES NOT wind up at Tina Bar exclusively.

If there was a USAF SAGE radar at McChord why wasn't there a very accurate plot of the flight path? F 106s were scrambled as chase planes as I recall. They get telemetry from SAGE which can control their autopilots for a ground controlled automatic intercept. Hughes made that F 106 system which was called the MA 1. 377 Good recap. Here's the historical record as I know it. So far as I know no radar data has ever been released by the FBI, and none was ever released here by Larry Carr? The only exception to this is Jerry who claims to know about #305's radar data through conversations he has had with H which is the basis for his search in the Washougal. Sluggo worked with the PI transcripts and the FBI flight map presented by Agent Larry and extrapolated a data set from that... see attached. Sluggo felt this data set was tantamount to having radar data and Ckret never said anything here to contradiction that notion - however, Ckret never confirmed the notion either! Ckret did support and applaud Sluggo's work however, it may well be that Agent Carr has never seen any radar data for flight #305 either, if it exists. Everything above supports the notion no radar data has ever been released by the FBI. Sluggo went forward with his data set and presented several possible flitht path interpretations. Tom Kaye used Sluggo's data set and independent wind data and developed his own version of a flight path map, but Tom has never presented his version publically. Tom Kaye is a lisensed pilot, as Sluggo is. Snowmman developed several versions of possible flight path scenarios ... Others including several engineers have worked on developing the flight path for Flight #305 but their work has never been made public - or mentioned here until just now. These gentlemen communicated with the FBI concerning this matter. Myers and Dvorak claimed the whole FBI Cooper case was botched by "H-bach" and no flight data ever existed. The Myers-Dvorak contention seems very unlikely and exaggerated. It is worth noting that Myers & Dvorak then turned around and relied on and complimented "H-bach" on other information Himmelsbach conveyed to Myers, which Myers then used to support a case against Mayfield! My conjecture is a radar data set for Flight #305 was collected and preserved from several different directions by several agencies and companies and is probably being preserved as a part of the Cooper Case, still active. Jerry Thomas claims the flight path went miles east of V23 and skirted the Washougal, then crossed the Columbia at Troutdale, then proceded ????? On another point you raised, the crew did search the back prior to landing at Reno - its in the PI transcript. *It is perhaps significant that nobody close to this case who dealt with flight path matters, ever spoke publically about the matter. Nor have they ever been interviewed so far as I know! (Where have been the Journalistas?) The body of people who dealt directly with these issues were in the military, at NWA, Boeing, . . . . . The closest anyone has ever come to trying to nail these matters down are 377, Sluggo, and Snowmman who deserve praise for trying... The Cooper case is very highly dependent on technical data, flight path, radar data, etc. The FBI is very much aware of that fact!

good post - you probably wont get anyone to respond. Good luck -

Slim Pickens was riding a ballistic vehicle. I assume you want a rocket firing. 377 nope, it was a hydrogen bomb dropped from a B52.

There must be constant pressure on Jo. When I, Orange and Jerry back off, Snow rushes in to fill the vacuum. Georger could model it with an equation. It is a closed loop system. 377 Nature abhores a vacuum. That explains Jo. Nature abhores two vacuums. That explains Snow.

It all comes down to where he landed, doesnt it? Which depends on Flight Path... I never would have dreamed there would be so much uncertainty (debate) over the flight path, even in 1971. Trailed by two jets no less. He'lo intercept en route. Continental flight overhead on know trajectory and altitude etc all known. And they dsont know where flight #305 was at 8:10- 8:15 ? This could ONLY happen on the Letterman Show!

You have a flight path which you feel is confirmed. The rest of us don't have that. The rest of us have no evidence they were 20 miles east off V23. Now, if Rat were to issue a formal statement they were 20 miles east off V23 which puts Cooper near the Washougal, that might change things? Later -

made some progress today - will report by weekend.

clam shells vrs. oysters. Large difference in rarity and price.

You are so good - how and where do you find this stuff? I thought maybe the tie tac was oval, but from what you posted with the comparisons available on the market in 1971 appears it was probably round. Himmelsbach had said it was a pearl onlay - and we now know his description was dead on. Not pearl. But MUTHER OF PEARL! Sheesh. (Trivia: Guess where one major supply of mother of pearl to industry was at this time. Somewhere on the Mississippi around 41* N. latitude.)

Sounds good to me. Jerry and I disagree about whether Cooper lived and escaped or not. Until I see evidence that confirms a death, the question remains open for me. I do not take the money at Tina Bar as evidence Cooper perished.

Key word is sets. These items were often (maybe most often) sold in sets at JC Penny. So where are the cufflinks that go with the tie clasp? Did he have cufflinks on? (I dont recall any report on this) ?

It reminds me something I heard Ramtha, the Enlightened One say a while back: "Truth is always the first casualty of war." Ramtha Begonia got it from Aeschylus (500BC).

if you try it, i'll try it too! Jerry, will you join us? Jerry will join!!!!!!!!!! Or !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hee hee. Seriously, I have no control over Jerry whatever - only the power to make recommendations ... on peril of ......... BTW, Ive embarked on one more thankless task. Im making an edited version of the Websleuth posts, something manageable in size but very complete, but in simple text format. I would pass the parts on to you for reading if you desire ... give me at least a week or so to complete this gruesome task.

I'll try that for a while Georger, but it's hard not to rise to the bait sometimes. You know that from personal experience. Jo ought to take the olive branch and the polygraph challenge from Jerry. He said he'd pay for the test. Ok, I'll now try a week or so of silence on Jo. It might be extended or truncated. I have a lower level of tolerance these days, too much coffee I guess. 377 I just think everything that can be said has been said, a million times. The burden has always been on Jo, and no one else. That's my point of view, especially when there are other things to do and areas still unexplored...

Thanks. It's better to focus on DB Cooper and forget about Jo Weber. It's as simple as that. Enjoy the fresh air!

This continual back-and-forth with Jo accomplishes nothing and is counter productive. Silence would be better. You've said all there was to say long ago. Sometimes its better to cut bait than to stir up another episode of JAWS! The last thing we need here are Jo and Snow posting on sharks in the Columbia!

I've posted plenty of photos of the tie clasp the FBI has. There's no mystery there. The Nat Geo show had two tie clasps. The FBI one, and another one. How did you see the Nat Geo show Jo? I thought you had some TV problems. Yea, her house is wrapped in tin foil.

well said.

You there?

Why not just read it for yourself at Websleuth rather than speculate and insinuate ? http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44859&page=14 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49742 23.4 mb worth. (as a Word doc) Myers and Dvorak were Leftcoast and Eastcoast. Snowmman can post excerpts if he wants - he was involved. Better yet! Why dont you get Myers in on this. He is here.