georger

Thanks for sharing this!

Tom says the money didn't have any silt present on the bills and was immersed in clean water? I would expect to find silt in slower currents, as are present on the inside channel at Cat Island, or in the slower water between Cat Island and the Fazio property. I would expect bottom spoils to contain silt, but what makeup? We need Tom to define what he means by silt. However, I recall all too well going back years, Tom had no more than started to examine the bills and I emailed asking 'wassup?' and he replied: 'these bills are very clean - no silt - and very smooth surfaces', for whatever that's worth. So Tom is consistent. I will go back and look but I dont recall the word silt ever being mentioned in any FBI Lab report we have? Pat never mentioned silt or silty, or that the money was covered with silt ....

Since you know so much about this, what serial numbered bills or fragments is Tom basing this silt study on and where in the 12 Ingram groups were they?

I I recall Cook announced a 'reverse tide' or 'reverse flow' theory, Cook claimed the source of the money was the Lewis flowing back up the Columbia to Tena Bar. I called his scientist who abruptly said "I never said any such thing". Cook apparently decided to drop the whole thing. Cook also intimated there was Cooper money sitting in some bank vault in Canada? The money horse has been beaten to death by too many experts and authors. Bury it! You cant get blood out of a stone!

I have no idea what TK means by silt! As a generic term noun: silt means fine sand, clay, or other material carried by running water and deposited as a sediment, especially in a channel or harbor sometimes requiring removal. I sense however TK has something special in mind. Does it matter? The FBI Lab found fine rounded sand in between the bills 'like that found in Columbia River water'. I have a feeling Tom is talking about something very specific what it is. Tena Bar sits in a sedimentary basin vs the Washougal which is in a metamorphic geological region so silts in those two contexts could mean different things. Or, silt is as silt does! Mississippi silt could be elementally different from Columbia silt ? Im guessing... Silt is granular material of a size somewhere between sand and clay whose mineral origin is quartz (made up of a continuous framework of SiO4 silicon–oxygen tetrahedra, with each oxygen being shared between two tetrahedra, giving an overall formula SiO2) and feldspar ( KAlSi3O8 – NaAlSi3O8 – CaAl2Si2O8). https://kremesti.com/water/silt_clay_mud.htm What is the composition of silt? Silt is granular material of a size between sand and clay and composed mostly of broken grains of quartz. Silt may occur as a soil (often mixed with sand or clay) or as sediment mixed in suspension with water. Silt usually has a floury feel when dry, and lacks plasticity when wet. The fine silt fraction consists of quartz, kaolinite, chlorite, hydromica, smectite, and feldspars. The medium silt fraction consists of quartz, kaolinite, mica, and feldspars.

Really! How was your conversation with the Ingrams ? Are they still alive to talk to ? Where is your lab report ?

Good question. I asked Pat how many of the bills they separated during the washing, socalled; she said the FBI photo of the money at Portland shows how far they got, so not very far. They turned in 12 groups in a sandwich bag but kept four or more single bills for themselves (turned in later after Crystal Ingram ratted them out). No pieces of bands evidently made it. Once the FBI sent the money to the Lab at Washington that is where further separating occurred and God only knows how they did that or how far they got. There is no known Lab report which details exactly what was done and to what extent ??? Tom did eds work looking at elements. I shared that with a USGS chemist who saw what he said was a telltale element associated with bottom spoils from a specific area - a known signature. I wanted isotopic work done on the money 20 years ago and that still has not been done!

I have asked multiple times if Tom knows where each serial number was in the three bundles he is examining bills or pieces from? Still no answer.

Erosion at TBar has been a fact forever. It didnt stop or change radically since 1971!

well, dredging can deliver and bury all at the same time. So could a flood but less certain. The key is nobody sees it. If buried via dredging spoils it would require how many years to surface by erosion? I mean Tom estimated yearly erosion? Yes? I dont know what is so difficult about this. The fact is Cooper money was found on Tena Bar and got to that unique location somehow. There has to be an ordinary explanation. There is nothing in the whole Cooper case to make it exotic, special, or extraordinary outside the laws of normality except some people continual claiming special conditions and occurrences! The laws of normal distribution are in play . . .

What analysis ?

I dont give a daMN ABOUT WHAT BANKS TYPICALLY DO ................. I care about how the Cooper money was packaged and who saw it!

Well ..... any real hydrologist would point out that water (a liquid) can only be compressed so far. The cavity at Caterpillar Island requires that higher pressure water in the main channel spread out, flow, into that cavity! Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. That is your entry point for debris entering the Fazio property. Nothing is required to flow across the river in some magical feat of gymnastics. All that is required is for water to be water flowing north in the Columbia obeying the basic laws of physics! This aint rocket science for Christ's sake. The current is strong and the volume large. That massive volume of pressurized water is just looking for a place to escape and the cavity at Cat Isle provides that .......... flowing being dragged north right up over the Fazio property. The erosion is historically documented in USGS photos - in the 50s the Fazio property barely existed. Its existence through the years has been dependent on dredging spoils building the Fazio bank back up time after time.

So... has Grinnel finally said in unimpeachable terms, he saw the packaged money in the bag or not? If he didn't then what is his deep value to the Cooper case?

Not unexpected. They want to be in control of all facets of whatever is in their purview to be in control of - imho of course. I sensed that years ago when I tried to have simple conversation with them about _ _ _ _ _ now if you gave them $1mil as a donation maybe they would open up ? They may cite rules they must follow which precludes Jack vs Mary, or ten fingered vs 7 fingered, or nobody over 5'7" , and the like ? Libraries can be quirky as hell unless it is them wanting something .................. and there is likely a political component or two or twenty @ I shouldnt say these things.

Thanks! Once again Smith saves the day . . . Question: did anyone ever reconstruct the Ingram find by serial numbers, so Tom can know where the bills he is working with were in the bundles or packets, the Ingrams retrieved? Surface, middle, bottom ... (whichever word you are addicted to) WSHM may not trust Kaye or any outsiders. WSHM may want to run their own tests with their own people ? Its a territorial thing .... which only complicates everything! Maybe they would chose Meltzer to do dna sampling ?

Well that is theoretical. Dirty water is meaningless vs a specific list of elements, but that is not even guaranteed. Let's say for example bottom spoils are rich in 'Goatium'. If money was rich in Goatium then could one conclude the money came up with the Goatium? Not necessarily. You see water flows north and DOWN HILL at TBar. Since the money was found north of the northmost Goatium pile, and since water flows north, then sooner or later the money is probably going to be contaminated with Gotium, whether it came up with the Goatium or not. Since Tom hasnt published anything I dont know what Tom is talking about. Tom aside, in point of fact a USGS chemist revealed years ago that the bottom spoils mentioned in the Bechly doc did have a specific elemental signature. They were rich in certain elements. But once placed on Tena Bar the whole area becomes contaminated and you would expect the Cooper money buried north of the dredge spoils area to show that contamination, which it apparently does! So dirty water vs clean water aside, elemental profiles do have meaning, ...

What evidence of exposure to flood water is Tom looking for ? Is there going to be a report or not! ? Once again the world is left guessing .... by the Cooper Royalty. The water cycles at TBar 1972 to 1980 are well known and defined in data. What 'floods' (dirty water?) occurred during this period? What is dirty water vs clean water ? The turtles at TBar want to know! Oh! ? Is there a half clean vs half dirty water? What would define that on Tom's measure meter? What is flotsam vs. jetsam at Tena Bar in Feb 1980? To help, let me suggest: Identification of elements exposed to flood hazard in a section of Trotus River, Romania https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19475705.2018.1486891 or ..... Marie Antoinette at Tena Bar Queen Marie Antoinette helped provoke the popular unrest that led to the French Revolution and to the overthrow of the monarchy in 1792. By Biography.com Editors and Barbara MaranzaniUpdated: Jul 11, 2023 https://www.biography.com/royalty/marie-antoinette

Tom's work proves: the Cooper money was brought up on Tena Bar 'in the mouth of a turtle' ! Or a steelhead ... The turtles name was: Irene. The turtle lived at the marina on Caterpillar Island ! A boat owner there may be DB Cooper.

So reading this doc: 'not at this site for more than a year' but ' would tend to lend credence to the assumption that the money had been at the location where found a longer period of time.' So: when Palmer makes up his mind be sure and let everyone know!

OK. Thanks for the info ...

You dont seem to understand how beaches/erosion works. As new material is added, old material is also taken away. It is a combination of addition and subtraction. New material added - old material eroded away. The Ingram find was 'in' the upper active reworked layer' (Palmer's words not mine) which is a cross bedded layer representing many periods of water cycles stretching back in time. The whole history of Tena Bar is erosion vs addition, with erosion always winning over time. Look at the photos 1950 to date. Prior to massive dredging and rebuilding Tena Bar and Cat Isle didnt even exist! We are never going to agree on the hydrology of this place ........... I have a game to watch.

bathymetry at Fazio property and at Cat island...

So, every flood or high water deposits and leaves how much sand at the 35ft Ingram site? 1" ? 20" 6-8" ? (if it was a recent arrival). Date the layers Palmer identified ...

Looking forward to your book. So are others..........