georger

And more aphorisms, parables, and quantrains, from the nimble-inflexible Knosstradamus. This remindsme of the Newton-Hooke debates except this is Oiville vs Toiville, sorting through garbage in a Cooper dumpster. And Blevins will have something 'catastophic' to add urgency to the garage sorting - ! I remind you all none of this is in the Cooper comic script, or on some stele at Mothra-Khotep - or is it? We need a new SEM and a new Stele interpreter, before the Earth is reduced to rubble by a Cooperoid. It could be something as simple as: PCD! Peripheral Cooper Disease (patent pending@Georger).

The young man who worked so hard on the money find and experiments - the one who did a tunnel jump for the first time. Sorry. but I don't recall his posting title. I can't thank all of you That was SafecrackingPLF, the young man you are thinking of. You are forgetting Snowmman. Many many others of note. Not sure you will answer but where (what area) of KY do you come from? Ive always been a little curious about that. Years ago I had connections at Murray and Murray State. Should I ask: which basketball faction of immortals do you back in KY! Many good memories in Murray and at Ken Lake. We were young and crazy then. You know Murray was in a dry county, if you recall. Thank God for Fulton TN just across the line!

I'll assume you mean the Amboy Chute. Their explanation is full of holes. Did you even read the article, take a look at the maps? If you swallow the FBI's explanation, fine. Then we will have to agree to disagree, because I'm not buying their story about it for a second. And I presented pretty solid evidence on WHY. This Amboy chute 'explanation' from the Seattle FBI comes to you from the same folks who just last August were touting Marla Cooper as a 'viable witness'.

No one listened to me at the start about Knoss, and look where we are now. Any posts I bother to make here containing REAL research or what I consider legitimate points are soon buried under a mountain of Knoss Fable. I snipped the rest but, at least it was a semi congent post vs some flamming piece of nonsense ? The point to the above is: nobody including you NEEDED to tell us, or anyone else, about Knoss! People here generally have good minds, and the glamour of Knoss preceded him, and his very words betrayed him quick - as Cline and Mrshutter spent time in back-n-forth with him. So your intercession was not required. A few of us tried to tell YOU THAT, as youw ere busy TELLING EVERYONE TO BEWARE AND KICK KNOSS OFF. Some things are self evident and you are not the caretaker of the Truth, even in reality. Thats all there is to this - could there be more? I dont think so. As Sluggo tried to tell you over a year ago, you are not CENTRAL to anything, except in your mind. And now, if what Im told is true, you are behind the last on the list, of those with whom XXXXX would ever chose to deal with ... and that is the truth and you 'are' central in that one! So you have achieved a central position in something - Remember Blevins: glue comes from the glue tree. Do I have info I dont share here - is the Pope Catholic? But I am not the only one. You pose a real dilemma here which sooner or later will have to be solved, and some have been working ont hat for some time already - I sit and wait for the message. But I dont think you care, in truth. I dont think solutions are your purpose.

Personally this thread should be locked, you all should be banned and then this web page can go back to being a fun place for ACTUAL skydiver's. Dan Cooper is dead, let the case go with him. Matt On the other hand, the world may be round and the stars not fixed to the bar room ceiling at all!

I think I'll quit worrying about that and bypass your comments quicker than I used to ditch my kid brother on Saturday mornings.

Damn. Where are Earl Flatt and Lester Scruggs when you really need them? Dead as you know. Scruggs died this year. Doc Watson is dead too. His son is alive, I think, likewise Roland C. Had them over to the cabin on Ken Lake several times when my wife was taking pottery at Murray State, but you were still in diapers. See the two assholes on that camel ahead? The camel knows 'red light' 'green light'. The assholes think KC was DB Cooper and keep promoting "no talent night" as if Doc and Roland and Chris would show up, to pay tribute! Get a life, Blevins.

you have entered the ........ Drop .... Zone. "plop" Noooooo kidding plop, plop, fiz, fiz....well, you know the rest

This is sheer crud, IMHO. Don't you do any research before you attempt to make known historical events your own? What rifle 'to dispose of'? Ray dropped it in front of a doorway to a store, where it was quickly found. Duane Weber had nothing to do with the assassination of Dr Martin Luther King. Get real. You have a lot of nerve even saying that stuff, since many Americans consider it to be one of the most heinous race-related crimes of the 20th century. It's not something to joke about, or to make false accusations about. You keep slandering people on this thread with absolutely no proof on any of your accusations. I don't mind you discussing the Cooper case, but you need to check into the Reality Hotel first, (top floor suite) and work from there. Before you sheit on one more person or thing here, please xplain this nonsense on your tag line thingy! 'When they finally discover the center of the universe...a lot of people will be disappointed to find they are not it.' Who is the "they"? And what "center of the universe" are you yammering about?

how many pages and day's have we spent on two simple questions? you have entered the ........ Drop .... Zone. "plop"

A very heroic story, but I have my doubts that it is true. It takes quite a bit to get a bad conduct discharge. Sailors get into fights all the time. Those rarely result in discharges. 377 Not saying Jo's story is true on Duane, but '90-day wonder' indicates an officer, and striking a superior officer...well, yeah, you can get a BCD on that one, possibly. This is more likely also, if the person had not been in the service very long. Not saying I BELIEVE those were the circumstances, but... Knoss: What the heck are you talking about? 'Raoul?' That's the fictional character that James Earl Ray made up in an attempt to shift his blame for the King murder. And although there is no doubt that Ray had help (gun store owner where Ray bought rifle testified that TWO men were together and one was Ray, the other seemed to be giving him advice)...it's also true that Ray pulled the trigger on King and went to his grave in denial. You are SO full of it sometimes, I swear. Do you just cherry-pick among the characters, real and imagined, from historical events and simply toss them into your fable at will? Sounds like it to me. Your story is completely convoluted and the end result is a twisted mess of mish-mash garbage full of false accusations. Along the way you slander innocent people who had nothing to do with pulling off the Cooper hijacking. Get out of town. Your talents are being wasted. You might want to enter yourself in THIS next year. (*laughs*) You show up with that story, you are a winner. Think about it: Cooper, airline safety, the Dead Guy, the FBI, 'Project Norjack,' LSD, Nixon, ('I am not a crook!') the Pilots' Union, the FAA, hypnosis, draft dodging Vietnam and your subsequent recruitment...and my personal fave, 'Tommy Gunn'. You could even say he had a brother named Peter. Easy winner. The audience will go nuts laughing...and you will get the trophy for sure. Beans beans the musical fruit, the more he eats the more he toots, the more he toots the worse he feels, so Blevins Blevins 24/7 on Beanzone - You're starting to make as much sense and Knoss. You don't like Blevins, we get it, now move on. Matt You have been here for years participating in the "Cooper-thingy", as Blevins phrases it. So, what's your "thingy" and how does it apply to the Cooper-thingy-dada ? As an art form for thingy- busters? Surely you have something to contribute?

A very heroic story, but I have my doubts that it is true. It takes quite a bit to get a bad conduct discharge. Sailors get into fights all the time. Those rarely result in discharges. 377 Not saying Jo's story is true on Duane, but '90-day wonder' indicates an officer, and striking a superior officer...well, yeah, you can get a BCD on that one, possibly. This is more likely also, if the person had not been in the service very long. Not saying I BELIEVE those were the circumstances, but... Knoss: What the heck are you talking about? 'Raoul?' That's the fictional character that James Earl Ray made up in an attempt to shift his blame for the King murder. And although there is no doubt that Ray had help (gun store owner where Ray bought rifle testified that TWO men were together and one was Ray, the other seemed to be giving him advice)...it's also true that Ray pulled the trigger on King and went to his grave in denial. You are SO full of it sometimes, I swear. Do you just cherry-pick among the characters, real and imagined, from historical events and simply toss them into your fable at will? Sounds like it to me. Your story is completely convoluted and the end result is a twisted mess of mish-mash garbage full of false accusations. Along the way you slander innocent people who had nothing to do with pulling off the Cooper hijacking. Get out of town. Your talents are being wasted. You might want to enter yourself in THIS next year. (*laughs*) You show up with that story, you are a winner. Think about it: Cooper, airline safety, the Dead Guy, the FBI, 'Project Norjack,' LSD, Nixon, ('I am not a crook!') the Pilots' Union, the FAA, hypnosis, draft dodging Vietnam and your subsequent recruitment...and my personal fave, 'Tommy Gunn'. You could even say he had a brother named Peter. Easy winner. The audience will go nuts laughing...and you will get the trophy for sure. You could put a matress over your computer to keep out the noise ?

I'm going to contact a relative of mine who grew up on the river...and ask him what his theory is on the money find... hangdiver That could be interesting. I had relatives at Vancouver and Portland during the whole Cooper saga. Concerning the money discovery my impression is feelings & opinions ran the gamut against a general background of surprise. Surprise because newspaper coverage had placed the arena of the Cooper activity well north of Portland-VCVR. By 1976, for example, FBI Himmelsbach himself had placed Cooper's bailout as being 12 miles north of Vancouver (in a well publicised newspaper interview). With the money find many people now believed Cooper had survived, made his way south back to Portland, and got separated from some of his money somehow, perhaps in an altercation in one of the hobo camps that dotted the area west to the Tena Bar area. Some people wondered if Cooper had managed to jump a train and come south, then crossed the Columbia at Vancouver trying to get back to Portland (and was separated from some of his money there?). I can tell you that the Janet story, for example, was not commonly known, so far as I know, but a few people in Janet's circle did know of her and her husband's account - there should be FBI paperwork if she did in fact contact the FBI about her story. Mr. Tosaw heard the story directly from Janet years later, at a book signing, by all accounts, and not from FBI sources. The official FBI version was the Palmer theory, so far as I know. Some agents were not sure his theory worked. One question I have always wondered about is if the Portland and Seattle offices (their agents) were in total agreement, in accepting the Palmer theory? I dont have an answer to that, or even opinion. In particular I don't know what the lead agent at Vancouver thought in spite of the fact I have always been told he was a true expert on the Cooper case, in all of its facets, and thoroughly professional, but never gave interviews and was never sought out for interviews for some reason? He is long deceased, for whatever that's worth. I know the discovery of the money caused a scramble at Vancouver-Portland, areas were explored and searched by all kinds of people immediately after the money find, but again my impression is interest died down pretty quickly after the excavation at Tena Bar ended. It would be interesting to see what you can develop on this basic question. Some 'people' have advanced the idea to the point of even assuming it, that the bundles found at Tena Bar match the 'money' Cooper pulled from his bag and offered Tina Mucklow. Then when Tina rejects the money Cooper stuffs it into his coat pocket, and loses it out of his coat pocket later? I dont buy that theory at all.

(From the 2007 article) Obviously, I'm a big supporter of select cutting, rather than clear-cutting. (See: raping, collateral damage downstream) I see little difference between people who clearcut vast natural areas, and people who clearcut large previously unpolluted internet space with their own personal internet diahhrea trying to filter everyone's thoughts and words. in both cases valuable resources and lives are destroyed for personal ambition.

attached - data for 70, 71, & 72 missing on chart. The numeric data exists, just isnt charted up ...

What is RTFF ? Translation pse. Ordinary English will suffice here. I have no control whatever over the content or length and breadth of this thread. 99% of this thread is spurious to the Cooper case. The issues currently at question are very specific and easily understood at Mr Kaye's site: http://www.citizensleuths.com/Log-in.html?return=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5jaXRpemVuc2xldXRocy 5jb20v No login required - just click the headings for content. So in essence there is your "single website with multiple subject headings that would allow new users to get caught up." This website is much easier to navigate for some vs. Sluggo's website. And Sluggo's site is not current.. One thing you should try and read is Robert99's analysis of the FBI flight path, on Sluggo's website. That work is unparalleled and a standard. Again the primary issues at stake are stated on Tom's site in an organised manner. Tom presents the standing issues pretty well in my opinion. Thats the best I can offer. You should also want to search and read posts here by Farflung and Hominid. Its a large repertoir to tackle.

This has all been discussed before. 1978 was a draught ending in Dec with heavy rain into 1979 and then flooding with some parts of the washougal ten feet out of their banks ... You and Blevins need to read the thread. Well, then I just confirmed your previous thread. Happy to be of service. Now had you asked earlier, I could have saved you a lot of probable hashing and arguing, and name calling. I'm here to make your life easier, Jerry! You want facts, come to the source. You want to banter, go to (Bleep)! What is the melt transition temp of the rubber bands used in the Cooper money bundles? How affected by Oxygen depletion? Explain how these realities are involved with the Coopermoney find. Im opening a door for you and the others here. Can you walk through it? You talk the talk. Can you walk the walk? And why won't Tom Kaye/Carol/Alan come here and explain and discuss their findings and claims, vs. relying on outside interpreters-editorialists which at length even includes me! That is the source of the consternation which has plagued this project. Town and Gown must merge, if it can.

Stop being a pest disrupter! I dont have the faintest idea what you are yammmmering about! Cite something soit can be discussed? Be specific for a change, Air Twardo. This is a discussion about physical causes and effects as it relates to the moneyand the Tena Bar find. Not about Mr Blevins! You are the one stuck on Mr. Blevins.

Bleep, or Whomever: I was given to understand by someone, I remember naught, that the area around Tena Bar was flooded several times. Larry Carr explains the time frame for the movement of the money, in his opinion, from the East. However, it is reportedly possible that currents were reversed for a brief period which by a wild chance, might throw a curve to the fact pile. The money was covered and protected for seven to nine years and was only exposed for the last few. The majority of the money was found buried under three feet of dredging fill, suggesting a wash-up on the shore before being covered by the dredging. McCoy reported that Weber buried all but two pockets full of bills in a milk can under a tree by the river, before a flood. Carr's information isolates the time frame of the flood, assuming the flood to have caused the release of the bills from their hiding place. In that scenerio, watershed and water flow might even couple with tidal flow for unusual results. I have never studied it myself, just taking notes from smart speculators. This puts a causative flood as a possible release date about 1978-80. Larry Carr makes sense and is consistent with Weber and McCoy. This has all been discussed before. 1978 was a draught ending in Dec with heavy rain into 1979 and then flooding with some parts of the washougal ten feet out of their banks ... You and Blevins need to read the thread.

Your example has nothing to do with what we are talking about: Tom Kay says bills secured with rubber bands in bundles, "fan out" when placed in water. As usual he doesnt specify the conditions he says this holds true in - so no equation describing the behavior is possible. And so far as I know Tom does not tell us what the "cause" of the fanning out is. He extrapolates from that the Cooper bundles could not have 'flowed' to Tena Bar by water, because the bills in the bundles were not fanned out when found. He says his forensics show the bills were in near-perfect alignment when found! His evidence for this is "bleeding print between bills" . Never mind that the Ingrams nor anyone else mentioned the bundles being in such a condition of perfect alihgnment, and the Ingrams tried to separate and clean the bundles using household chemicals including Clorox. The FBI never mentioned or documents the bills being in the close perfect alignment Kay claims they were when found. And, Kaye never saw or examined the money as they came out of the ground, until generations later! Tom's claims are just not credible, or an expression of universal Physical Law, as it applies to currency in water! Tom has not specified the forces which would "fan out" bills wrapped in bundles and submitted to water. He doesnt even bother to explain the conditions he's talking about.

AB books? I guess you mean Seattle. It's 7:30 am or so here. Georger: Himmelsbach, and others either at or formerly with the Seattle FBI whom I have asked about it, have expressed the opinion they believe Cooper died in the jump. As I pointed out in the article, the reason they usually give is the Tena Bar money, and sometimes the difficulty of the jump itself. No, I don't believe the 'Washougal Washdown Theory' and yes, I've heard of it. It doesn't explain very well how more than a single bundle of the ransom mysteriously traveled more than twenty miles, and somehow stayed together, landing in the exact same spot. We've been down this road previously. As I said before, if they had found what amounts to a single bundle, maybe. Or...if MOST of the money had ended up on Tena Bar, then again...MAYBE. But not three together. That does not make sense to me. Yes, I believe Tom Kaye's theory over the FBI's. There is no proof one way or another about it, this is strictly an opinion on my part. It's actually pretty simple. We just disagree on how the money arrived at Tena Bar. So, you believe all bundle of money, wrapped in rubber bands, automatically fan-out (and fan-in, fan-in-and-out) "when placed in water", on Earth. They were observed to fan-out. Were they observed to fan-in? Do the Kaye-Tell instructions include "water must be flowing". ? Oscillation? Frequency of fanning? He says fans in seconds! The little buggers - Uhhhhh, do the bills fan-in and fan-out in a bag, or a box? Could they random-walk due to this fanning, out of a bag? If a dead guy fell into the Columbia, would his legs and arms fan-in and fan-out, giving the appearance he was swimming, when in fact he was dead? If ten Cooper Dropzone timewarriors fell into the drink, would they (as a group) fan-out and fan-in, giving the appearance of a water dance in progress? How did Kepler, Galileo, and Newton miss this?

Yes, I wrote an article about the Amboy chute. The FBI might even be right that the Amboy chute isn't Cooper's...but the story they offered doesn't make a bit of sense. You can believe it if you wish. I don't. In your article you say: "The general consensus at the Bureau is that due to the money found at Tena Bar, they now believe Cooper died in the jump. They don't have an answer on exactly HOW three bundles of the ransom ended up parked in the same spot more than twenty miles from the flight path of the jet. Theories about floating down the Columbia River, or being dredged up onto the riverbank don't make sense, either." "The general consensus at the Bureau" ? Where is your poll? What do you base this on speaking for "the Bureau"?? "that due to the money found at Tena Bar, they now believe Cooper died in the jump." ? Where and when has the FBI ever linked Cooper died to the money find? What's your source? "They don't have an answer on exactly HOW three bundles of the ransom ended up parked in the same spot more than twenty miles from the flight path of the jet" ? Well yes they do. The Washougal Washdown Theory. The theory is based on 3-5 and possibly more separate pieces of forensics and professional opinion. They even have a date, ie. 1979 based on water records. Their theory did not derrive out of thin air, as you suggest. "Theories about floating down the Columbia River, or being dredged up onto the riverbank don't make sense, either."? That is your and Tom Kaye's opinion based on what may be incomplete and erroneous tests, information, and premature conclusions. At best yours is no more than an editorial opinion based on your understanding of Tom's Kaye's work and aceptance of it. Not everyone accepts Mr. Kaye's work. You say: "Researcher Tom Kaye's water tests with similar money bundles show that these bundles would have 'fanned' within seconds of being exposed to water." I dont buy Tom's experiment as complete or conclusive of the realities in this matter, amounting to proof. Moreover I have data to base my opinion on. So far as you are concerned, everything you say is heresay because you have no independent verification of anything you editorialise about, in your article statements above. This is the second time I am asking you to respond specifically to these points in your article. The first time I asked you did not reply at all - just as you skirted replying specifically for more than a year during your "25 reasons KC-is-Cooper" editorials. You demand others reply specifically; now you do so.

Believe what you will. Misrepresent the past as you will. I see you are going to. You have come to the right black hole for Cooper myth. Werent you here once before asking the same questions, and got nowhere? This is the Timewarrior Speaking. . . I believe in facts sir. . .obtained through observable means and through cause and effect relationships. And no, I was not here before. That post was the first post I ever made to this forum. This is my third post. I find it sad that two of my 3 posts have to deal directly with your somewhat hostile personality. What time is it there, at AB Books, Timewarrior Esq ?

FU Blevins. Dont put words in my mouth. I did not call Carr a liar. How goes your attempt to "force" the Seattle office into submission? "Force" is the word you used.

Georger. . .there is much anger in you. . .be careful that it does not blind you in your endeavors. . . what I believe Mr. RobertMBlevins was referring to is that the existence and use of PERSONAL computers in the day to day activities of modern business such as it is now, was not in existence at the time of the highjacking. This is believeable, in the past decade alone, how much more dependent has society become on these infernal machines. . .one downed network at work. . .equates to an entire day of work lost due to one not being able to access their systems. Believe what you will. Misrepresent the past as you will. I see you are going to. You have come to the right black hole for Cooper myth. Werent you here once before asking the same questions, and got nowhere?