georger

I just signed a contract with an author in North Seattle today. I will be editing my 50th book with this one. If that's failure, I'll take it. Be sure and send Jed, Jethro, Grandma, and Ellie May their royalties@! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAW!

The only person who has ever said "the sketches are so accurate as to nearly represent a photo" is YOU@! Its just one more example of you exaggerating what people say and putting words in people;'s mouths, Blevins .... It's called BUILDING A STRAW MAN. And the time for anyone to have to defend themselves over your bullshit - is over. Nighty night. Dont let your conscience bite. It wont!

You don't know everything, Mr Science. Just how much of the case record, or examples of Cooper's personality do you think the shrink had time to bone up on before he said those things? Wasn't it just a few hours between the time Cooper passed the note and when he jumped? UR funny sometimes. No, really. aGAIN mR bLEVINS - read the damned thread - I am not going to spell it out for you or teach you what first graders know and do automatically. Get your head straight! Come on in FOR THE BIG WIN! Read the thread and stop being an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR OF BULLSHIT. We are NOT going to remake the world for you. You need to do a few things for yourself, for a change! I am not going to give you a free history lesson. You need to press a few buttons in the search box for yourself this time. Gerger is NOT going to rescue you this time - Hint, hint: There are reason the psychiatrist said what he said - info given him prior to his assessment - duhhhhhhhhhhhhh! You fill in the gap by READING THE THREAD. He was not operating in a vacuum as you would like to pretend so you can bloviate expertise from the Jethro's porach about it! Is there anybody in there? (Blevins quote)

How do I know? Easy. Because this shrink scared the crap out of the crew, and made a prediction based on near-zero information. I think there's an echo in here. \ How do you know it scared the crap out of the crew? Your proof? You were there? Yes thereis an echo in here - ITS YOU!

You're not trying to speak for everybody again, are you. It's tiresome, and assumes others can't speak for themselves. WHAT! You are the one speaks for eveyrone!!!! "AMERICA WANTS TO KNOW" RMB quote. Where did you pick up the tactic of accusing people of what you do yourself? The Hannity Effect.

HOW DO YOU KNOW! Its just another kneejerk reaction by the famous RobertM Blevins. If you had read people's posts you would know something about this. Instead you refuse to READ THE THREAD so you dont know anything about it so instead, you make wild claims which are totally not factual! And you repeat it endlessly for two years excpecting a different result each time! That's Got any news about Jack the Ripper? Or where Naxi gold is buried? Surely you have an expert opinion or an article out on that?

WE dont need a refresher - only you do. READ THE THREAD.

LOL the truth is you don't have an answer. No, the answers were given in the previous post - which you conveniently ignore, just as always ignore people's posts and what they say - so you can build a bigger BILLBOARD. Just like you posted then amended, thewn took down three posts last night (a) announcing you are sending your material to the Seattle FBI and the Seattle Times, (b) then took that down and posted the actual letter (which was funny), (c) then took that down and left a hollow space saying "I am Not Afraid" at the top ... which still resides on DZ for all to see. And you call me Alice in Wonderland? Did you get your letter sent to the FBI today? Or did you chicken out ? American wants to know! (thats your line) Is there anybody in there? (thats your line) Do you actually think anyone gives a shit? (Thats my line).

what the witnesses told the FBI after the hijacking. I've already mentioned a list of people who, according to Gray, gave widely varying descriptions Robert Gregory, between Tina and Flo. "Just because you fail once doesn't mean you're gonna fail at everything..." Marilyn Monroe There you go again, Marilyn, exaggerating the size of your horn section ... Witnesses! LOTS OF EM! List! HUMONGOUS LIST! Robert Gregory Tina/Flo (close in height) Thats one helluva a large list Marilyn. Witnesses, all two of them. So let me assist. Add Simmons and his wife - maybe. Guess Geoff left Simmons off the long liost running five pages... but I will add him and the Mrs. Now you have 2 1/2. Add the college kid across from Cooper. Now you have 3 1/2 You need more witnesses, lists, and horns, Marilyn. Try Victoria's Secret. There must be an outfit in the closest never seen before... put it on and trot it out on the runway ............ make sure the batteries work.

Why? Dont gets you diaper in a dither. Standard Operating Procedure.

The sketches could turn out to be close, but I have noticed one thing ? (see photo) sometimes we just can't get it right (see photo) The Chinese ad is funny!

I agree with this approach - yours. This is why I say: we would have to talk to Tina to really know, but Tina was only one party contributing to the profile sketch. The sketches are an agreement between many witnesses, not just Tina. Does Geoff Gray single out Tina in his book for special treatment/description? Does Geoff speak to Tina's description of Cooper, or Tina particular role in the development of the FBI sketches? I think not, Does Gray single out Flo in the same manner? Evidently there was nothing in the files Geoff read to make singling these people out noteworthy.. The sketches, as Ckret explained, is a consensus among all of the witnesses which Ckret described as being in 'close agreement', as a whole. It does not rest on Tina alone, whatever her state. I fear this stuff about Tina's "state" is being used as a red herring (straw man) for a problem which did not exist in the first place, if you believe Ckret description of the 'process' which resulted in sketches. There is no actual evidence whatever that Tina was a 'babling idiot?' following the events, unable to function, and gave an erroneous description of Cooper. I am rather sure if Geoff Gray reading the files had picked that up he would have reported it - he did not. I ask myself: how would a physical anthropologist group these sketches and assess them, looking at them for consistency/reliability in desacribing physical parameters? To me they fall into three groups: (a) the original FBi sketches + Flo's independent sketch, (b) the single fuller faced sketch which shows different proportions, and (c) Geoff new sketch based on one witness. And there is no disagreement between all of the parties as to general height! So the veracity of the sketches does not rely on Tina's emotional state alone, if at all. And on the issue of height, there is no general disagreement. Consider for a moment what it would be if these sketches turned out to be 'very accurate'! I mean we are taken to the one extreme (not accurate) by a group of people - why not shift to the other extreme just for the sake of arguement, for a change! If these sketches were "very accurate" then we are looking for a guy who has very specific features, who has not been found to date. Something would have to explain that! The truth, may be somewhere in the middle ... with doomsday and the "sketch cliff" averted! Life may continue after all!

Is the "'deal' from Boeing" referring to info on operating a 727 as a jumpship? Interesting that GC speculates that DBC has that info too. 377 That doc I refer to to above: Dr. John T. Dailey, Chief Psychologist of the FAA Dailey's comments about skyjackers (profile) as a group is remarkably close to what Farflung said. Makes me wonder if Farflung read this doc? You really should take a look at this document: here's the url ... hopfully somebody who knows how can wrap it: http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi? article=2103&context=flr&sei-redir=1&referer=http% 3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fhl%3Den% 26source%3Dhp%26q%3DDr.%2BJohn%2BT.% 2BDailey%252C%2BChief%2BPsychologist%2Bof% 2Bthe%2BFAA%252C%26gbv%3D2%26oq%3DDr.% 2BJohn%2BT.%2BDailey%252C%2BChief% 2BPsychologist%2Bof%2Bthe%2BFAA%252C% 26gs_l%3Dheirloom- hp.3...2391.2391.0.4110.1.1.0.0.0.0.172.172.0j1.1.0 ...0.0...1c.YMDa8eUc6zQ#search=%22Dr.%20John% 20T.%20Dailey%2C%20Chief%20Psychologist% 20FAA%2C%22 G.

well you may still be correct. After several searches Im not sure myself. The transcript clearly says psychiatrist but the FAA in 1968-75 also had a Chief "Psychologist" named: Dr. John T. Dailey, Chief Psychologist of the FAA ... Google that name : Dr. John T. Dailey, Chief Psychologist of the FAA and you find a Google document where he discusses the psychology of skyjackers .. and procedures. I couldnt find Snowmman's prior discussion of this on the thread search ... may look later when I have more time. Whoever it was I cant find the name at Sluggo's site either .. tried searching there.

I doubt very much that this guy went to med school G. Read it closely. Psychologist not Psychiatrist. Not that it matters much in this context. I know something about the training Psychologists get. My ex got her PhD in psych at UCLA while we were together. Six years of classes and clinical work. Nothing in her doctoral or post doc curriculum or practical training made her qualified to make a similar behavioral predictions based on such scanty second hand info. Do I have a grudge against behavioral scientists? Not if they act like scientists. When they go into fortune teller mode then I do. In a life threatening emergency, guesses masquerading as science can get people killed. 377 TRANSCRIPT T8: TIME PERIOD 6:59 – 7:41 time: xxx [message from FAA psychiatrist] Lee: 305? Did you hear the message? FAA from Washington DC, from the FAA Chief Psyhiatrist. He believes the second parachute is for the stewardess to use with him to go out, and after he leaves the airplane will be blown up ! P: ALL, I kind of figured some way to get her out, Id kind of like to get her out when we’re ready to go. GC: OK you got the message. That’s what we needed to forward. AL: Bill, this is Al here. P: Yea AL: Have you been able to get in the back end of that cockpit or won’t he come out? P: He doesn’t want any of us in the aisle. The only one he negotiates with is the Stewardess (Mucklow) and he doesn’t want anybody beyond that first curtain. We’ve never left the cockpit. GC: Did you get the maps I sent out there? P: Yea we got all that stuff. GC: And you got that ‘deal’ from Boeing on how to get out of there? P: Yea we got that. GC: He’s got that himself maybe. I don’t know – whatever you elect to do (is OK with us).

Well, Ive stated my position - take it or leave it. Ive said about all Im going to say, in this context. Your first remark: 'I think the answer to Tina ... is in the rest of her life.' causes me to say: dont look for a simple monolithic solution. Basic life issues do not suddenly get suspended just because a person finds themselves in a combat zone, sudden victim in a criminal attack or traffic accident, etc ... threads in life which existed prior to an event usually continue in some form after an event, or serie of events ... life and neurology are not monolithic but a bit more complicated and rugged than stereotypes might suggest. You would really have to talk to Tina to know ... That's my opinion.

This thread does not have all the answers. If it did, the case would be solved already. I didn't SAY Flo was the only one to see the bomb. I ASKED if she was the only one. In any case, my previous comment on your assumptions, fantasies, etc stands. Stop trying to shrink the stews. You weren't there. Tripe? You are the one slaughtering the beef and cooking up the whole stomach here, not me. I'm happy to hear you had 'intimate relations' with people involved in the case. Hope you used protection, or if they were kinda homely...that you had a few drinks beforehand. What a COWARDLY thing to say!

What an idiot. Like a PhD in psychology qualifies him to predict this. I wonder if he predicted the exit point and deployment altitude too. Looks like he was wrong on all fronts. Amazon would call him a "college boy". I'd be less kind. 377 Yes he called it wrong. But there is context for how he called it, which you obviously forget since we discussed this at length previously in this thread. I guess you did not pay attention being not entertained, in your subliminal id. For your information psychiatry is a medical discipline awarded by medical schools and State boards, physician first, not necessarily a PhD in any discipline (psychology or electrical engineering). Many psychiatrists go on to get a PhD ... as do some orthopedists or pediatrists or veterinarians or vegetarians or Moose Lodge members! Are you saying you don't trust psychiatrists? You should deal with an FBI profiler!! Merry Entertainment to you and the Wicked Tuna.

Were you a passenger on Flight 305? Did you see this type of interaction happen between Mucklow and the hijacker? This is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard you make here. You are talking like you are a shrink, and were actually present to see this. Strictly assumption on your part. Tina went along because it was either that, or get BLOWN UP. Wasn't it only Flo Schaffner who actually got a look inside the briefcase? If so, she described it as some red sticks, about eight inches long, a 'bunch of wires,' and a battery 'larger than you would put into a flashlight'. That doesn't sound like an overly detailed description to me. I'm not sure about Tina Mucklow, but Flo Schaffner has said several times that she was scared to death the whole time. Rataczak stated in his interview for Blast that the flight crew seriously considered the idea that Cooper might set the bomb to go off remotely after he jumped...or that it could just go off on its own, etc. He made a comment on that after Skipp Porteous asked him about the delays attempted on the ground in Seattle by the FBI: Blevins: reading the rest of your tripe above, you make errors of fact above. READ THE THREAD. Get the facts of this case under your belt and come back in 20 years!

Were you a passenger on Flight 305? Did you see this type of interaction happen between Mucklow and the hijacker? "Just because you fail once doesn't mean you're gonna fail at everything..." Marilyn Monroe No and neither were you. Especially - neither were you! But Ive had intimate contact with people who worked on this case ... in the aftermath. Now go ahead and build you Straw Man while I do paper work - I will come back later to see your latest straw man concoction based on your credentials as a failed book writer, lay preacher, house cleaner, sci fi book pub;lisher, writing coach, whatever else youa dvertise on the internet you will do for money, and man about town - Play it again, Marilyn.

Utter nonsense. Hyperbolae. You are merging recognition vs recall. Recall is the issue, not if the brain records in the first place! Tina wasnt on her cell phone texting and never saw the train that hit her@! Tina's recall of the bomb was detailed. Cooper chose her because of her intelligence and predictability/reliability. She was probably focusing on DA BOMB... not the numbnutz who was holding it To her Cooper is the bomb - the trigger. She calmed him down several times during crucial periods - She deserves a purple heart! (The stress of it all shows up later. Thats how the endocrine system [shock] works) Gee what would ANY of the rest of us know about things like that. Gee - you should. You know combat, you're trained, you know about ptsd, and for all I know you are a retired PhD, Dr., EMT, Survival Training expert, etc etc ... not to mention you are one of the most intelligent people here. Granted you are a bit cynical and can have an edge but .... but you are someone who would sit Farflung on your knee, pat his head, and take hinm out to dinner! -------------- ........ and you dont like dairy farms! Its quite obvious from your posts here over time you have a solid technical background and a lot of common sense. We have a difference of opinion based on different backgrounds I guess ... To me Cooper is a strategist picking and chosing his environment which will determine his opportunities as it relates to control ... setting the stage for the hijacking. So I tend to look at his choices. He didnt even want the passengers alerted or informed - did it with notes and choices of people and let them do all the work. (very much like Ckret described) Cooper motivated by use of an alleged bomb and then chose people, gave instructions, and coerced people by means of the alleged bomb. These are psychological threats vs actual harm/damage. One core question is did his isntructions amount to having technical knowledge and how much - Farflung seems to think he didnt have much (an ordinary person could give an identical level of instructions). But one of the crew seemed convinced - made the remark "he must have the manual back there!". But the crime rest on psychologoical terrorism vs. actual physical damage to anyone. Part of my background is in psychology, criminology, and medicine, test design, Dict of Occupational Titles, etc. as it applies to military and civilian operations. (actual work experience) You may, and evidently do, have a different point of view - even though you have never specified the 'keys' you see, if any. Maybe yous ee the whole as more random than I do. BTW: this isnt personal. I hope you know that.

Utter nonsense. Hyperbolae. You are merging recognition vs recall. Recall is the issue, not if the brain records in the first place! Tina wasnt on her cell phone texting and never saw the train that hit her@! Tina's recall of the bomb was detailed. Cooper chose her because of her intelligence and predictability/reliability. She was probably focusing on DA BOMB... not the numbnutz who was holding it To her Cooper is the bomb - the trigger. She calmed him down several times during crucial periods - She deserves a purple heart! (The stress of it all shows up later. Thats how the endocrine system [shock] works)

Put yourself in their place. The night before Thanksgiving and they might be blown up in the sky and never see their families again. For all they knew they might not have had the chance to give that description. It would be similar to looking at the barrel of the gun and all you see is the threat staring you in the face. Utter nonsense. Hyperbolae. You are merging recognition vs recall. Recall is the issue, not if the brain records in the first place! Tina wasnt on her cell phone texting and never saw the train that hit her@! Tina's recall of the bomb was detailed. Cooper chose her because of her intelligence and predictability/reliability. He needed an intelligent cooperative (reliable) partner/hostage.

Your point is well taken. My theory works if one assumes that the composite is accurate enough, and there doesn't seem to be much consensus on that. It amazes me that Tina talked to this guy for nearly 5 hours and she didn't come up with a more definitive composite. She had opporunity to study Cooper for hours. I'm just surprised the composite she came up with is not more defninitive. MeyerLouie Of course, the position of candidate-pushers would be just as Jo and Blevins have stated it: "Recognize him from what? The composite that people on the flight can't agree was accurate? " Ckret said the opposite here. He said there was 'remarkable' agreement. Blevins even goes to the length of suggesting optical illusions in an airplane cabin in order to rule out FBI profile height! That is silly. What does anyone here at DZ know about this from personal knowledge - nothing. The most anyone here can offer is personal bias and personal anecdote/conjecture, eg. Airtwardo. So, one can buy into the candidate-pushers stance, or you can believe Ckret. That is the choice. KC stood the best chance of being recognised because he was an NWA employee. Bottom line for me, I dont trust ANYTHING Blevins says, and Geoff Gray isnt far behind in spite of him having read SOME FBI files - some files were not available to him vs. Ckret who had access also. Can we solve this? No, apparently not. Especially not here in the face of massive nullification going on daily. But as a working thesis who would you chose? Blevins or Ckret? Gray doesnt even say as a fact: the FBI sketches are wrong! Gray has never said THAT! All Gray has offered is the statement of one passenger who sat across from Cooper. Ckret said this one passenger diverted from everyone else. And which graphics are others using when asking crew members to make comparisons against! ? The FBI sketches. (not photos of KC, Duane, etc). Flo's independent sketch was more like the FBI Cooper sketch, than any other photo or sketch of anyone else ... it has always been either the FBI sketch or her own private sketch that she has chosen-agreed to compare against ... We cannot dismiss 5'8" vs. 6 foot plus just because Mr. Blevins does not like (or agree to use) "science". The Reverend Blevins, self professed preacher, will always invoke his own rules - and he advertises that fact of his personality with every 'Marilyn' post he makes and relishes in, here. Blevins is all about "nullification" in ever sense.

Its quite obvious Cooper could not have been recognised by anyone at NWA, Boeing, and in all the other venues you and Blevins cite. Happy now? Let's move on to carbon isotopes on the tie. What's your dictum about that?