georger

I am not making this up. It was something Tom and Alan did in passing, but did not mention or connect. No Biggie. Beyond that Tom apparently forgot about it and made no connection btwn the state of the money and Cooper's fate. Except, just about everyone but Flyjack accepts Tina's last report that Cooper had the money bag tied around his waste ??? A five year old could make the connection given the facts! Here are the remains of a person who has fallen just 3000ft in a plane crash.This is as real as it gets. No explanation required! Now do you believe in the physics of falling objects tied to each other? Sluggo suggested Carr start digging up anonymous grave sites in the Orchards area!

Lets let Tom address this. I think he will if asked ... the alignments Tom documented are minor ... except for age and weathering, these bills and their alignments look fresh as if just set out by a bank teller ... no evidence of a shock wave here. No Cooper blood and guts or body fluids ... ! We know the money was tied to Cooper in some fashion, so what happens to the money happens to Cooper until ground zero. From then forward it could be another story. As long as Cooper and the money are together, whatever happens to one happens to the other ... Cooper has only a few hours to address the strange sight of a guy with a bag of money tied to his waste dangling, running, doing something ? You dont see that every day! He is close to civilisation, the rail lines, and possibly close to where hobos shelter and roam along with their barking dogs ... what does he do and where does he find shelter, in a hurry ? Daylight is fast approaching . . .

Kaye and Alan Stone, a materials destruction expert, looked for signs of impact in the bills they examined. And found no signs of impact. Since the money was tied to Cooper, according to Tina, both landed. That eliminates the FBI claim that Cooper died in the drop . Cooper is now alive and free to travel . .

Someone could try it ...

Back to basics - did DB Cooper and the money survive the jump or drop ? how much force would a 21 lb bag of money exert when hitting the ground if dropped 10,000 feet ? Answer To calculate the force exerted by a 21 lb bag of money hitting the ground after being dropped from 10,000 feet, we need to consider several factors: Calculation Steps Convert units: 21 lbs ≈ 9.53 kg 10,000 feet ≈ 3,048 meters Calculate final velocity: The bag will accelerate due to gravity, reaching terminal velocity. Terminal velocity for a human is about 120 mph (53.6 m/s), but a compact bag of money would likely fall faster. Let's assume it reaches 150 mph (67 m/s). Determine impact time: The impact time is very short, typically around 0.01 seconds for solid objects hitting a hard surface. Apply Newton's Second Law: Force = Mass × Acceleration Acceleration = Change in velocity / Time F=m×(vf−vi)/tF=m×(vf−vi)/t Where: m = 9.53 kg v_f = 0 m/s (final velocity at impact) v_i = 67 m/s (initial velocity at impact) t = 0.01 s (estimated impact time) Calculate the force: F=9.53×(0−67)/0.01=63,851NF=9.53×(0−67)/0.01=63,851N Result The bag of money would exert approximately 63,851 Newtons of force upon impact . This is equivalent to about 14,355 pounds-force or 7.18 tons-force. This amount of force would easily disturb or change the packaging geometry of the money-bundles and might rupture the money container. Considerations This calculation assumes ideal conditions and doesn't account for air resistance during the fall or deformation of the bag upon impact. The actual force could vary based on factors like the bag's shape, material, and the surface it hits. The impact force is significant and could cause substantial damage to both the bag and the impact surface. The money was attached to Cooper. If the money survived to be found with bands still intact, what does that imply about Cooper's status post-drop ? If Cooper money was found with rubber bands still intact does that imply that Cooper was still alive with his brains still intact and able to function and move, post drop ? The status of the money indicates that Cooper is now free to travel 'to a place you would like' .

We have been over this - endlessly. Rataczak said what he said. I take what Rataczak said at face value over your speculation, but I suspect you will continue to dominate this conversation about 'light glow' until hell freezes over - you have no reason to stop! Rataczak was there. You were not even there! But your disruption is very real.

Edwards seems to think that rivers dont contain diatoms! And he may be saying ' the drop and landing zone of the subject is totally unknown'. After years of working these points to death. If Edwards is going to include Oswego Lake he must also consider Merwin Lake. ? People seem to be willing to do adopt any extreme in order to avoid the BLANK of Cooper walking south from say Orchards to Portland . . . and not leaving a message on some billboard "I was here - wake up!". People seem to be willing to go to any extreme to avoid even a theory about what might have happened between Orchards and Portland ...... unless of course he headed for Hawaii! ???

Lakes vs Rivers have different nutrient levels/chemistries etc. Diatoms are what the stew they develop in provides. (as my granddaughter veterinarian reminds me ...) My granddaughter tells me to remind everyone - do not feed sweet corn to rabbits! Look it up! ps: Emi reminds me to also share: "Avocados are really bad for rabbits too!"

One possible answer to Edwards is: different types, abundances, and chemistries of diatoms types: Lake Oswego vs Columbia River. See this: https://www.perplexity.ai/search/are-there-differences-between-HDgXhTVlQdGzlQsBLph.Mg Keep in mind, the diatom types found on the Cooper money are early spring and summer diatom types only. Population types and abundances in the two environments probably differ. Diatom Nutrients in the two environments differ so the chemistries of diatoms in the two environments differ. See Tom's remarks about the chemistries (elemental balances) in the Cooper money diatoms he found. Also, Tom found diatoms on some bills but not others! ? That has yet to be explained ? . . . . . This might to due to the type and length of exposure .. river vs lake, time of year of an exposure, etc. ? If Dr Edwards is right there should be Oswego and Columbia type diatoms on the money ? The populations in the two places differ .

I knew this would happen! Dr Edwards says 'the diatoms' found on the money by Kaye, are Lake Oswego diatoms and not Columbia diatoms! How can we know? • Oswego Lake is a slow-draining and nutrient-rich lake (the technical term is “hypereutrophic”). The waters are usually somewhat opaque, thanks to the abundant population of algae. Among those algae, biologists have found periodic concentrations of diatoms: single-celled creatures of the great algae family. In 2020, researchers reported on their sampling of one $20 bill from Tena Bar; on which they had found a scattering of the shells of long-dead diatoms. To my mind, Oswego Lake would be a good candidate for a meeting place between those diatoms and the $20 bill. https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/2500530.Robert_H_Edwards/blog Will the Ingram money diatoms please stand up and tell us who they are and where they were born and the year? Is there any way to prove these are Lake Oswego diatoms and not Columbia diatoms? Tom? Anyone?

https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/2500530.Robert_H_Edwards/blog Just to clarify, pages 345-352 is probably the first summary report by the Seattle FBI, written at 6:28AM the morning after the hijacking, 11/25/71. So, it would have been their understanding at the time. The reality is, times used in that report have been subject to questioning. At eight twelve pm [PST}, was 305 actually flying 'south of Portland' ? That's the whole issue. There is considerable variance between ' Cooper landing near Orchards' vs ' Cooper landing at Lake Oswego' ! Capt Scott has Cooper jumping near Lake Merwin further north, and Capt Rataczak basically says they didnt know where they were! Tosaw has Cooper landing in the Columbia near Tena Bar. And Ulis has launched a televised search even closer to the money find location! Didn't Rataczak say at 8:05 he could see the lights of Portland-Vancouver 'coming up' - ahead?

Dr Edwards examines the Tena Bar Landing Scenario - and turns thumbs down. August 13, 2024 D. B. Cooper and Flight 305: the Tena Bar scenario

Cooper bailed near Lake Oswego ? - Dr Edwards - Part 97 ... On August 6, 2024, the FBI released “D. B. Cooper Skyjacking Part 97”: the latest in its monthly packages of declassified, though heavily redacted, documents on the infamous Norjak case of 1971. Tucked away among the very last pages (345 through 352), there is a report from the FBI’s Seattle office, dated November 25, 1971, the day after the hijacking. The author was an FBI agent with the initials PRB: undoubtedly Paul R. Bibler, Assistant Special Agent in Charge at Seattle. Bibler wrote inter alia as follows [my italics, and my annotations in square brackets]: “Northwest Airlines flight log reveals that at eight zero five pm [PST], while in immediate vicinity of Portland, Oregon, captain attempted to communicate with unsub [unidentified subject] on two occasions, at which time unsub advised quote everything is OK enquote. At eight twelve pm [PST}, while flying south of Portland, Oregon, crew reported getting some oscillation in the cabin and advised quote must be doing something with air stairs. Enquote. No further entries on log at Seattle". https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/2500530.Robert_H_Edwards/blog

" ... and he said “If that is a Sky Marshall I don’t want any more of that”, and Mucklow reassured the hijacker it wasn’t (a sky marshal) and further ‘that there are no sky marshals on this flight’." I think Cooper exaggerated everything in the beginning to get people's attention, and follow his demands to the letter without any interference. Strict compliance is what he wanted. On several occasions he avoided conflict and adjusted to keep things moving according to his plan. His plan centered around time and uncertainty allowing a physical escape. That's why he sent the plane far away from himself on the ground. But, something he could not control happened and the money found at Tena Bar may be connected to that ? Or the money was never important to him and he cast it off in the process of making an escape? The hijacking itself was his primary goal . . . and satisfied if he could disappear and never be found ?

Sluggo thought Cooper might be an east coast or Florida person: his obsession with sky marshals, south eastern and east coast flights were saturated with sky marshals, he brought up Havana, Flo said he was Latin, Cuban hair style with marcelled hair, his naming Mexico City and south-western cities as destinations, .. ? Some people think the plane could have reached Mexico City - it landed at Reno with plenty of fuel left The issue was never fuel but flight configurations.

It might have been a 'standard FAA response' in Mongolia ? They might have had a list of standard response sheets and he chose No.13 ? I think it was an official response from an accredited person. Probably charged them the standard fee $1500-$3500/hr.

Damn good question and funny! YES! Sluggo (Wayne Walker) asked the same question and looked into this. Several people identified and interviewed the psychiatrist after the fact. Its somewhere in the thread - god only knows where. But Wayne and I talked about this over the phone - Wayne thought it was hilarious. As I recall, the doctor said he had issued a 'standard response' but knew none of the details of what was going on at the time! A standard FAA response, whatever that is! This is one of these time I wish Wayne was still here, to share what he found out about the doctor. Maybe you could do some poking around ... I will do an AI search. I probably have notes I made so will search my computer when I get time. This is the best I can do off the top of my head ............. Maybe somebody else has more/better on this ?

Part 97 page 21: Interesting comment about the condition of the Ingram bills after Lab analysis of the money, in a letter from SA Baker/Portland to Richard Tosaw who is making regular press releases about his work in the Cooper case: The Lab notes that the serial numbers are in the same order as when given to Cooper and the Lab has not been able to separate all of the bills to get an exact count.

No. I am drawing attention to the lack of a viable personality profile for the hijacker in the DB Cooper case. Have you ever read the FAA psychiatrist's evaluation of the hijacker? See the Flight Comms Transcript.

Its interesting to me that in all of the crew conversations with DBC, nobody bothered to ask: what are you going to do after you jump? Did he plan to play it by ear or did he have a plan? People cant even agree on what his plan was! Carr says he intended to bail as soon as airborne at or near Seattle. I think he intended to send the plane as far away from WA/Oregon as possible. If he always intended to jump as close to Mexico as possible, then why didn;t he? Since DBC was a hapless moron maybe he got confused and didnt have any idea where he was or what time or day it was! ? A basic problem in the Cooper case is a correct personality profile for the man. Including his intelligence. Including if he had any plan at all since this was a spur-of-the-moment hijacking with no plan at all, as some say. Money at Tena Bar is an enigma because Cooper was a moron and an enigma! Consider ourselves lucky that money wasnt found on a river beach in Florida! Or on a bench in New York City. Anything is possible in the Cooper case because no two people can agree on anything.

OK. page 351 is part of an early case summary being sent to a number of FBI offices from the Seattle office, with Seattle's early understanding of the case, sent at 6:28am on 11-25-71 the morning after the hijacking. The Seattle office is moving very quickly and already has a number of important documents in its possession. These eight pages may be the first detailed case summary the Seattle FBI Office thought it had in hand, at 6:28AM on 11-25-71 the morning after the hijacking. Sources of that information are listed ... Part 97 also has a number of pages on Tosaw's work in 1980. Seattle is trying to get items Tosaw's divers have found to determine if they are part of the Cooper case. These pages start around page 20 in Part 97. Lab tests revealed that nothing found by Tosaw was part of the Cooper case.

. . where is this in Part 97 ?

I would prefer to here this from Ammerman himself, rather than from Mr Ulis interpreting Ammerman. It was Ammerman working the flight that night, not Mr. Ulis.

Question: Will Eric continue as a researcher in the DB Cooper case? given the changes in coopercon leadership . . . . anyone know ?

'A place you would like' I think. I'll look it up... How does Cooper knows what Tina (a hostage) would like ? Tina probably wants to wind the clock back to last month ! Cooper is just filling space nobody likes .... We know the pilots were talking to the company by 8:20. If there is any redaction in the 'transcript' I think its there. I think by 8:20 they were fairly sure he was gone and Tina or somebody went to look around the curtain, and that got reported. If that's true then everything in the Transcript to Reno is nonsense. Finally at Reno they announce they are going back to look ... ? Their primary concern is the bomb. 8:20 is the first opportunity to look for it. I cant see the crew not looking for it at the first opportunity. It's human nature under the strongest motivation. edit: directly from crew interviews: would go to a “pleasant place”. "we're going to a place you would like' ‘they weren’t going to Cuba, but she would like where they were going’. (interviewer's words) He paused and said ‘that the flight suited his time, place, and plans.’