Belgian_Draft

I think this is a totally irrelevant question. The government can try to keep secret what they want (within the confines of the law). They failed to do that in this case. Their procedures and safeguards were not enough to keep Bradley Manning from copying an amazing amount of classified information. Manning broke the law and will be punished. That has nothing to do with Assange. Assange is a publisher. That's it. He didn't decide what the U.S. government could or couldn't keep secret. He merely published what he got when the government failed to keep its own secrets. That's what publishers do. If the U.S. government goes after every publisher who prints anything classified, or stories based on classified information, there are going to be an awful lot of empty newsrooms. Assange knowingly took possession of stolen property. That is a crime. If it can be proven that Assange in any way conspired with Manning before Manning actually stole the documents....then assange has bigger problems than sex charges in Europe. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

you forgot one - Americans are innocent until proven guilty. prior restraint isn't the answer. Assange is not an American. "prior restraint isn't the answer". That's extremely vague. Care to elaborate? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

For those who refuse to understand the ramifications of this, yes, it is....until YOU become a target and I'm pretty sure you'll be singing a different tune then. People who pull a dogs ears get bit. People who break the law become targets of the police. People who fuck with the national security of a country become targets of that country. SURPRISE!!! Care to answer my question yet about where you think the line should be drawn concerning what the government should be able to keep secret? Hmmmm? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

That is freakin' HILARIOUS!! HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

it was lame - I knew it would be. Guy can't even stand up for his own convictions. Hey Buddy.....you were trying to get me to say I thought he deserved more punishment during that entire exchange. Now you're just pissed off because I wouldn't. And you call my reply lame. I know what my convictions are. It is obvious you don't know where yours lay. Hell, none of you three can even answer a simple question about where you think the line should be drawn. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Just start blaring Justin Beiber songs at them. Our boys will be home in short order. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Why don't you and TK do what I have already done and state just what you think should be made public and what shouldn't. Hell, all I'm asking for is your opinion. Thus far all anybody can gather from your posts is that you want a perfect world where there are no secrets and no need for any, but i am asking for a realistic answer that makes sense in todays world, not some Utopia. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

not plain enough, when you continue to maintain that Ellsburg should have suffered more for releasing the Pentagon Papers. I never said that. if you think I did, post it. Post 241: Right, he got off easy. He could have spent a lot of time in jail. But nowhere did I say he should have. You decided to interpret my reply that way. Hell, OJ got off easy. Clinton got off easy. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Not backtracking or wandering. If anybody is it is you. I have already stated many times that there is a middle ground. You won't be happy until everything is out in the open. Well, sorry Bubba, it ain't gonna happen. And that is perfectly ok because there are a lot of things best kept out of the public view. Things that are perfectly legal and ethical. But you can't fathom how something can be legal and secret at the same time. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

not plain enough, when you continue to maintain that Ellsburg should have suffered more for releasing the Pentagon Papers. I never said that. if you think I did, post it. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I read about four lines from your reply and realized reading any further would be wasted time since you, quite obviously, have not kept up with what I have been saying all along. To repeat, AGAIN, I have no problem with releasing information that exposes a criminal and corrupt government or members of such. Plain enough? i hope so. You, on the other hand, continue to insist that all should be public. It seems that YOU are the one who cannot grasp the idea that there is a middle ground somewhere that stays away fro the extremes. Now, if by some miracle you can actually comprehend what a compromise is, then who do you think should be the judge of what is released and what isn't? I am no more qualified than the next person to make those decisions yet you seem content to allow Assange, a man you know very little about, to make those decisions for you. Oh, wait....he didn't decide. He just published everything he was given without regard to content. How quaint. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Hey! It' the American way, right? The decision maker is whoever is in power at the time, though...not us citizens. So...you still want your decision makers doing stupid shit without you knowing it and you only finding out about it when it comes back to bite you in the ass. No thanks..I'd rather know about it beforehand. Preferably up front and honest. Maybe I could do something to prevent the stupid shit from happening in the first place. Otherwise, through Wikileaks or similar if necessary. So we can assume you would have been in favor of the planning for the invasion of Europe during WWII to have been public so people like you could look them over and stop them if you didn't like it? Dream on. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Yep, I was right. You want to pick and chose what rights you can have and those others can't. Have a nice day. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Then I cannot help you. BTW, the Constitution does not grant rights, it merely states what the government cannot do. So, show me where the government prohibits itself from keeping secrets. In short, you made it up. Indeed, rights are not granted, but many are explicitly guaranteed. Like the freedom of the press. but this nonsense about government secrets being your concern or right? You lack standing. I lack standing? Prove it. Just because a right is not spelled out in the Constitution does not mean it dosn't exist. I have provided a link to a news article that gives examples of a judge and the SC upholding the governments right to keep certain papers secret, and the government belongs to, and IS, the people. You guys are being very hypocritical in your arguments. You claim rights for yourself but deny rights of others. Nice touch. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

The Freedom on Information Act has limits, which pretty much backs me up. Or didn't you know that? If that's not enough, read this: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/15/politics/main6682848.shtml The FOIA is legislation. That it includes limits or not has no bearing on the question asked of you to show this right you pulled out of thin air. I didn't pull it out of thin air. Did you even bother to read the link? I see nothing in it that demonstrates your claimed right. Then I cannot help you. BTW, the Constitution does not grant rights, it merely states what the government cannot do. So, show me where the government prohibits itself from keeping secrets. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

The Freedom on Information Act has limits, which pretty much backs me up. Or didn't you know that? If that's not enough, read this: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/15/politics/main6682848.shtml The FOIA is legislation. That it includes limits or not has no bearing on the question asked of you to show this right you pulled out of thin air. I didn't pull it out of thin air. Did you even bother to read the link? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

You do not have such a right. Again, you might want to review the legal history around the Pentagon Papers. It also dismisses your silly notion that the press cannot publish based on sources with stolen documents. Whistleblowers also enjoy significant protection when revealing criminal acts, and can reveal such documents. No right? Bullshit. Try again. Whistleblowers do enjoy protections when revealing criminal acts, as they should. But they do not enjoy the same protections when disclosing sensitive and secret documents concerning legal activities. Journalists do. So, uh, let's see a citation for your right (or the People's) to not have federal secrets released. A part of the Constitution or a Supreme Court ruling would suffice. The Freedom of Information Act comes to mind, but it's not quite what you want, is it? The Freedom on Information Act has limits, which pretty much backs me up. Or didn't you know that? If that's not enough, read this: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/15/politics/main6682848.shtml HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Horses

The English are feeling the pinch in relation to recent terrorist threats and have therefore raised their security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon, though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross." The English have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies nearly ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorized from "Tiresome" to "A Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was in 1588, when threatened by the Spanish Armada. The Scots have raised their threat level from "Pizzed Off" to "Let's get the Baztards." They don't have any other levels. This is the reason they have been used on the front line of the British army for the last 300 years. The French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide." The only two higher levels in France are "Collaborate" and "Surrender." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France's white flag factory, effectively paralyzing the country's military capability. Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout Loudly and Excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides." The Germans have increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher levels: "Invade a Neighbor" and "Lose." Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual; the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels. The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines ready to deploy. These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms so the new Spanish navy can get a really good look at the old Spanish navy. Australia , meanwhile, has raised its security level from "No worries" to "She'll be alright, Mate." Two more escalation levels remain: "Crikey! I think we'll need to cancel the barbie this weekend!" and "The barbie is canceled." So far no situation has ever warranted use of the final escalation level. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

You do not have such a right. Again, you might want to review the legal history around the Pentagon Papers. It also dismisses your silly notion that the press cannot publish based on sources with stolen documents. Whistleblowers also enjoy significant protection when revealing criminal acts, and can reveal such documents. No right? Bullshit. Try again. Whistleblowers do enjoy protections when revealing criminal acts, as they should. But they do not enjoy the same protections when disclosing sensitive and secret documents concerning legal activities. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

You'll need to express that in specifics. By definition, one's rights extend as far as possible without harming others' rights. But you don't have a right to not be offended, so Nazis can march, and Westboro assholes can protest near funerals. You do have a right not to get trampled in a panic caused by false incitement. Ok, fair enough. Your right to know about illegal dealings of the US ends where my right to have my government's sensitive and legal documents kept secret starts. Keep in mind that once information is made public, it cannot be made secret again. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

He didn't NEED a right ... In fact, there are no 'Rights' associated with what he did or could do. He had the documents given to him and he can do or not do what ever he wants. And you, continuing to get 'bent out of shape' does nothing to change that. So watch your blood pressure - there's nowt that you can do so you may as well 'chillax'

Like any government function, and many business deals, it is what is said and not made public that often holds the key to success or failure. One thing that is for certain: Assange, not being a citizen of the US, had no more right to release any of that information than I do to release any of yours. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Some people get so caught up in demanding that their own rights are recognized and enforced that they fail to see they are trampling on the rights of others. You may have the right to know when your government is being bad, but I have the right for my government not have sensitive information about legal dealings disclosed to the public, especially by someone who does not have the means, the right, nor the intelligence to decide what should be made public and what shouldn't. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

you still can't answer the fucking question. This thread isn't about legal, it's about right. We're not lawyers in mock trial forum. I asked you to clarify why you think he got off easy (which is an opinion you state, with the obvious implication that you wanted him punished for the release of information) versus your statement that the people should know this information. Your inability to express thoughts clearly is your problem, but one that anyone trying to discuss/debate with you must deal with. Sorry, can't write this out with small syllable words. I answered your question with full clarification. Not my problem if you have comprehension issues. Maybe this will help. http://www.understandmore.com/i-adults.htm HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.