Belgian_Draft

10+ years in and what....very little. May as well out them for all the good that's been done. As if the Taliban has never known any of them until public disclosure. Taliban Security: OK, Ahmed...you watch Wikileaks and let us know when they tell us who the spy is. You get 70 virgins up front, 2 more when you die. Unless you know what information has come from those sources and what that information was used for, you have no idea as to whether it has done any good. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

If our launch codes are static, yeah, I want that released. That would force the military to fix a stupid vulnerability. To access my office's VPN, I use a two part passcode. One is static, known to be. The other changes every 60 seconds, is displayed by an RSA token. So nothing gets sold on Ebay. Codes can be changed. Names of informants can't. How would you handle the list of informants in other countries who pass vital information to the US? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

> You'll shoot your eye out! > I could tell that was .22LR ammo behind the rifle. I have a couple boxes just like that in my safe. Nice lookin' piece. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

No evidence that has been made public, that is. There is no evidence that Southern Man and Belgian Draft were not co-conspirators with Manning and Assange either. True. But there is no reason to suspect as much either. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

No evidence that has been made public, that is. ...and won't be if you had your way. You're checking for boogeymen under your bed every night? It's not paranoia if there actually are little men living in your head speaking to you. It is quite common in a criminal investigation for the authorities to keep some evidence under wraps until an arrest is made, especially if releasing that evidence could tip off present and/or future suspects. Paranoid? Me? You're the one that's so scared shitless of information being kept secret you want everything made public. Just keep on diggin' that hole..... HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

No evidence that has been made public, that is. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

You say no line. Ok, fine. At least you have taken a stand. You want everything out in the open. Ok, fine. I disagree with that view on the grounds that is is impossible for any country to function without the ability to keep some things discreet and/or secret. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Want a flashlight? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Where did I say that? I said TRANSPARENCY. you say SECRETS. I say TRANSPARENCY. you're the one that does not get it. Assange is my hero. Dr MLK is my hero. Abe Lincoln is my hero. These are people who stood up for what is right despite the best efforts of people like you who "stand up for whatever works for you at this time" I wrote my representatives and told them to back off the pursuit of Assange. When was the last time you wrote your representatives to ask them to 'better define' what should or should not be a secret? - the question that you appear to be so concerned about....? I understand EXACTLY what you are saying. But you still haven't answered the question "Where would you draw the line?" It's shamefull that you put MLK in the same group as Assange. MLK had balls. He stood in front of his detractors and challenged them to take him down. Assange runs like the scared little rabbit. No, MLK and Assange are not alike. Not even a little. It is disgraceful that you even think they are. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I have maintained from the start that I have no objection to the leaked documents that reveal illegal activity. I stated that several times and even specifically included the documents leaked by Assange. I realize legal and ethical are two different things, that is why i specified both conditions. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I read your post. I read it before I posted. I just felt I couldn't let you off the hook before getting a shot in. I figure we is even now. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Not quite as good as The Onion, but close. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

You haven't answer the question yourself. You've made some vague statement that corrupt governments don't retain their right to keep secrets. But you won't actually describe where it's applicable, with a lot of dancing re: the Pentagon Papers. The fair assessment is that you don't really believe anything should be revealed, or you want the foxes to determine what gets out of the henhouse. I have already stated more than once that I believe any documents or information concerning illegal activities should not be able to be kept secret. I have also stated that i believe the government should be able to keep documnets and information concerning legal and ethical dealings secret if it best serves the interest of the country. Hard to get more specific than that. If you paid attention you would have known that. Now, are you going to state your opinion on the matter or are you going to keep playing your childish "I know you are but what am I" games? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Everything i've read indicates that Assange has to have actively participated in planning w/ Manning to get the classified documents for an espionage charge to have any chance of sticking. Maybe Assange did so but I've seen and heard nothing that actually indicates this. That doesn't mean there should not be an investigation. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

You consistently ask this question of everyone, including me, as if this is some sort of defense of your argument. Surely you can do better than that. What we think should or should not be classified neither makes nor breaks the argument of open or transparent government. So regardless of the answer to that question for any specific person - your question is simply an attempt (a poor one) to divert the attention of the actual point of this thread to something that you have conjured up that is only apparent and relevent to you. Trapped, ain't ye? You have two ways to answer. 1: You admit that there are some things the government should be allowed to keep secret. However, that would put you at odds in defending Assange for releasing everything he was given. 2: You admit you feel the government should not have any secrets at all, but that would reveal a hypocracy in saying I have extreme views because i want some things kept secret. Need a longer handled shovel? That hole you're digging is getting pretty darn deep. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

What a stupid question. Of course he is. Just look at him. I mean...he's BLACK for Christ's sake! Kinda funny that, when I voted, 70% had responded "yes". HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

You were asked a direct question about your opinion. You have refused to answer that question. Assumptions are all we have to go on. Based on your posts here the assumptions made are logical. You are free to correct those assumptions. In fact, it would be most welcome. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

It would be easier to get out of that rut if you would stop digging it deeper. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Nope. Irrelevant. Then what do you base your argument on? It seems there are three people on this thread whose only argument is that everything the government says and does should be public information. No secrets...NONE. And then they accuse the rest of us of being radical extremists because we say the government should be allowed to keep some things under wraps. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

And yes, if WikiLeaks released engineering documents that someone used to build a new device, you might have a point. Though if you look at the past 60 years of the cold war, I can't recall the US suing the Soviets for stealing information on weapons design. They did, however, execute some for releasing that information to them. You really don't get it, do you? The documents were, and still are, property of the US Government. The contents of those documents does not relieve Assnage and Manning of any criminal liability. They were still stolen. Now....why don't you tell us what documents should be made public and which ones shouldn't? You do have an opinion on that, right? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I'll bet you'd look pretty silly if that "pussy" unleashed 112 pounds of sinewy whoop-ass on you. You don't get to the Iowa State wresting tourney by being a pussy. Those kids eat pain for breakfast and shit their own intestines out to make weight. Whatever! When I was that age I'd have paid to be allowed to wrestle a girl. When I was that age I was wrestling girls in the backseat of a '75 Chevy Caprice...for free! HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I'll bet you'd look pretty silly if that "pussy" unleashed 112 pounds of sinewy whoop-ass on you. You don't get to the Iowa State wresting tourney by being a pussy. Those kids eat pain for breakfast and shit their own intestines out to make weight. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Plenty of reporters and publishers have received stolen classified documents. I don't believe the government has ever successfully prosecuted on for the crime of receiving stolen property. I guess it is not impossible but it would be a novel charge to make stick. Again, if they wish to do this, I hope they will apply the law consistently to all other reporters and publishers. It's not stolen property, it's not a stereo that the government can no longer use. It's intellectual property that was shared without their consent, and published by the press. So I don't see the stolen property bullshit getting any traction. It would be a specific law about receiving government secrets, which would not apply to someone outside the US. It's seems rather unnecessary to point out that he has not been charged with receiving stolen property yet. Heck, he hasn't even been charged with [Swedish minor rape] yet. Excuse me, but sharing intellectual property without the owners consent is stealing. Many engineers and executives have been convicted of theft for sharing company secrets and documents with competitors against company policy. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Plenty of reporters and publishers have received stolen classified documents. I don't believe the government has ever successfully prosecuted on for the crime of receiving stolen property. I guess it is not impossible but it would be a novel charge to make stick. Again, if they wish to do this, I hope they will apply the law consistently to all other reporters and publishers. Assumes facts not in evidence. In a large portion of criminal investigations suspects are names by assuming facts not in evidence. I do not know if the government has ever actually charged a publisher with recieving stolen property. I do not know why they wouldn't. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

-Where? -Who gives a shit about 'What Ifs'? - Stick to the facts - no need to make shit up or cloud the issue. And anyway - even if he did so outside of the boarders of USA - I doubt that any who cares will give a flying fuck. "I doubt that any who cares will give a flying fuck" Say what?? That has got to be one of the most contradictory statements I have ever read. But I agree. Let's stick to the facts. -Manning stole documents from the US. -Manning gave those documents to Assange. -Assange knew they were stolen. Which of those is a legal activity and where? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.