Belgian_Draft

The question: "So if you had two crews working for your siding business, one did only cedar clapboard, and the other only vinyl, and cedar clapboard fell out of favor would you continue to keep the same number of people on the cedar crew even though they didn't make you nearly as much money any more." My answer: We only hired what was needed. So, now follow along as most people probably figured it out on their own, if we did not need people for the cedar (or for what we did as we did not do cedar and very little vinyl, mostly fiberboard,) we would let them go, as we only hired what was needed. Is that simple for you (see bold portion of the expanded answer.) I made no such statement that there were only two types of workers. I've worked with a number of top notch non-union welders. I'll be non-union, again, when I return to Sperry. All top notch people. In the case of the apartment complex project, the owner tried to cut corners with low pay workers who did not follow codes and ignored safety rules. He got what he paid for. I have used this particular job as an example of what can go wrong when corners are cut on this board in the past. JB and I had worked alongside contractors who were non union and their work was top notch. No problem. So, by letting them go, you would be going against the very principles of the unions you so admire. Your tale implied that only union workers could save the day when a contractor cuts corners. I think we all know what happens when inexperienced help is hired regardless of union membership. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I did not gloss over my answer. It was at the start. Oh, and yes the union did step in and save the project. It got finished without interruptions, it was up to code, no backing up for rework. In the end, the owner of the project was more than happy with the quality and that the job was completed under the time frame predicted. His cost would had been far less if he would not had try to cut corners. A: You still have not answered the man's question. You have instead completely ignored the hypothetical situation he proposed and substituted your own. B: According to your tale, there are only two types of workers, top-notch quality union and piss-poor non-union. In case you have been under a rock, there are as many top-quality non-union workers as there are union (probably more), and there are as many piss-poor union workers as there are non-union. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

by Garth Stein. I've read it three times just to be sure i like it.

Patrons have been taking guns into bars for as long as both have been around. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Could be worse, I could be one of the people that doesn't have a clue about basics of government and therefore has to rely on the opinions of others to tell me what to think like some jackasses I know. Could be a lot better. Somebody could have let a real lawyer answer the question that was posed to the lawyers here. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

But you didn't specify real, documented and certified lawyers. Hence your reply from a make-believe one. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Oh, c'mon! Quit holding back a tell us how you really feel! HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

That is called an agency fee. Non-union workers in a union shop must pay an agancy fee to the union for the union having done them the, ahem, "favor" of negotiating wages. Those workers cannot vote in union elections and the only thing they get for their fee is to be allowed by the union to work there. It doesn't matter if the company wants them, if they don't pay the union, they can't work. Unions: Extortion at it's finest and blessed by the government. I'm no expert but from what I read here it looks as though that is also illegal here in Virginia: § 40.1-62. Employer not to require payment of union dues, etc. -- No employer shall require any person, as a condition of employment or continuation of employment, to pay any dues, fees or other charges of any kind to any labor union or labor organization. (Enacted 1947; amended 1970.) That is a good thing. Thanks for posting that.

That is called an agency fee. Non-union workers in a union shop must pay an agancy fee to the union for the union having done them the, ahem, "favor" of negotiating wages. Those workers cannot vote in union elections and the only thing they get for their fee is to be allowed by the union to work there. It doesn't matter if the company wants them, if they don't pay the union, they can't work. Unions: Extortion at it's finest and blessed by the government. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Gee, they're giving the guy more power than he deserves, IMO. No, it's just their view - anyone that doesn't agree with them MUST be some stupid hick in flyover land that gets all their information from Beck/Limbaugh. Negative, but nice try Mike. On the other hand, if you're attempting to say that there hasn't been a concerted and orchestrated effort by the right wing to control certain segments of "the media" with which to continuously bombard the airwaves with conservative messages with the aim of turning the average person against his own financial best interests . . . then, I'm sorry buddy, but I'm just going to have to laugh in your face. You mean like the concerted and orchestrated effort by the unions to control the media and legal system by all means, legal and corrupt? Tell me, quade, when was the last time you heard of a union picketer being charged with assault for beating up a replacement worker? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

And If -I- can't afford to live on $8 per hour and the only jobs in town are being taken up by idiots too fuckin' stupid to hold out for a higher wage, then why shouldn't I try to rally some folks together in an attempt to get a more reasonable wage? Don't just assume it's all some kind of con game by the union leadership. There IS power in numbers and even if Ikea had to pay people in the US the equivalent pay of those in Sweden, they'd -still- come out on top because they wouldn't be incurring overseas shipping charges and import taxes. Honest to god, why would anyone work for minimum wage? Oh yeah, that's right, because for the company to pay you less, it would be illegal. It is called "freedom of choice", quade. "Freedom of choice". Just because you aren't willing to work for $8/hr and can live on it doesn't mean nobody else is. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

You could use the same reasoning to justify a lot of things. Why not physically limit the speed of cars and trucks to 60 mph? Why not raise the minimum driving age to 25? Why not force everyone to wear safety glasses when outside their own home? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Here's some pictures from the good old days when America was at it's height of providing basic human rights. Good honest work for an honest day's pay, until the unions fucked it all up. http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/childlabor/ It wasn't just the unions that led to LAWS that banned such practices. If I want to work for Bob for $8/hr, who the fuck are you and Ted to say I can't? If you and Ted want to join together and refuse to work for Bob for less than $10/hr, that is your business. Just don't force me to join you. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Mexico loved those union folk at Hoover. Because of them, Hoover was shipping tailer loads of parts to Mexico and bringing back assembled sweepers. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

...and have denied the rest the freedom of choice to work for whom they wish and to negotiate their own wages. If that is democracy then you can keep it. Freedom to negotiate their own wage? 8 dollars an hour? How much negotiating do you think went on? $16,000 a year, what fool started the other thread about the American middle class vanishing? What concern is it of yours what they agreed to work for? If you don't want to work for $8.hr, then don't. But you have no right..NONE...to tell somebody else they can't. I consider it a basic human right to work for who you want in return for whatever compensation you negotiate for. Unions take that right away. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

...and have denied the rest the freedom of choice to work for whom they wish and to negotiate their own wages. If that is democracy then you can keep it. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Are you perchance suggesting that enforced union membership is a good idea? WOW uh, they voted for the union... Not ALL of them. that's democracy for you

Agreed. I would bet even money that most of the 221 that voted for the unionization have never worked in a union shop before. The products Ikea markets are not difficult to obtain and hold a high standard of manufacturing quality. Any number of Asian countries or Mexico can easily produce tha very same product and be up & running so quickly the warehouses will barely notice the change. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Yep, they both screwed up. But I disagree on a couple points. The driver DID attempt, several times, to inform the cop he had a permit and was carrying. The roid-raged cop told him each time to shutup. Wisely, the driver did so. The cop should not be made to apoogize, he should be fired and barred from ever touching a firearm again or working in public service. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

My sincere condolences to the Ikea workers. It is now only a matter of time, maybe just months, before Ikea shuts the plant and replaces those products with imports. May your jobs RIP. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I believe what Kallend is advocating is roundabouts. Then he should have said so. All he actually said was that street lights should be eliminated. If he had meant that intersections should be redesigned at the same time, he should have said so. Because if you do the former without the latter, you have chaos. Don't forget that Americans suck ass when it comes to negotiating a roundabout. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I'm almost certain the current, post-9/11 NSA has one or two more capabilities than Somalia ever dreamed of in detecting the early stages of an uprising. While you may have a point about me perhaps overestimating the capabilities of the NSA, I'm equally certain you personally would be unwilling to gamble your current way of life on running the email experiment to find out. No, I am not willing to gamble my life on that. But then, neither are you so we shall remain at odds over the answer to that question. In Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan the US military was certain their technology would far outweigh any homefield advantage of their opponent. They were wrong. All the technology in the world took over nine years to find one man even while he was communication instructions to his fighters for much of that time. Remember this: You can't intercept a phone call not made or an email not sent. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

You are giving the government far too much credit. They failed to prevent 911 but in hindsight they had all the info they needed. They failed to prevent Pearl Harbor. The list goes on and on. In each case the government had the intell but failed to recognize it for what it was. Hell, they had one of Jeff Dahmer's victims naked and pleading for help in the streets yet gave the poor S.O.B. back to that monster. Another thing you fail to recognize is that in any large uprising or revolution, to destroy the revolutionaries you must destroy yourself to an equal or greater degree. In case you still aren't convinced a small group of people can fuck over their government, one name: Somalia. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

that's why your inefficient private system needs upgrading. at the moment you spend more than any other country yet get only mediocre healthcare results for the vast sums you spend... I'm other words you have no idea where the funding will come from. I pay my own health insurance and am very happy with the care I get, thank you. Yes, Kallend, f*** those who won't earn a paycheck. They are more than willing to f*** me over. As for those who can't earn their way, I already donate ~10% of my income to charity. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

One.more.time. How will it be paid for? Taxes? Investments? Donations? Charity? Money doesn't just pop up out of nowhere. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.