skyjack71

There are two of them - this guy contacting Sluggo is either Steve or it is Larry (last names I do not divulge). Remember HOW many contacts I have had over the yrs., but I do not make them all public. First I check out the names they give me. You will find it could now be AZ but it could be TX/MX. Can you even imagine that many guys jumping in WA and OR in 1971 and the FBI not getting hold of that roster immediately...and checking out each one of them. More than likely this is someone who likes to create situations - to distract from Gossett or Grey's story. Maybe your own Bevins. This has been going on since I went public in 2000...I have talked to so many I have lost count. Since the FBI was never interested in any of this stuff I would relay to them - I just quit after the 3ed contact I made regarding the individuals who contacted me. I am less intimidating than the FBI and if they are a hoaxster they won' t call the FBI...but, they sometimes want to be heard and are legitimate. Ask your guy about Marana and see if he was ever there - IN Plane Site...or if any of his 101 hailed from those areas. If this was aregular skyjumping event in 1971 it should have been publicized. Maybe it was a "training" session for lots of Coopers - shhh!.

Excerpts from Georgers Post: I am going to post a picture NONE of you HAVE SEEN. He is much older in this picture and his hair line had receded and he was much heavier. You want an antropologist to get hold of this - go for it. Use the Rose Composites with the numbers as those are official - some old Rose composites were found that do not have the numbers and therefore not ones accepted by any of the crew - they just exist in history...not official - as preliminaries regected by the witnesses. Doug Pasternac interviewed indept Rose for about 2 hours. There was an expression mentioned that he was never able to project in a sketch that was acceptable with the crew. I do not have a good Rose Composite of this one - the only good one I have that is clear was the one found in an archive that does not have a numbers and the problem with it was the mouth was not right. (Per Rose). Note the old grouch photos were taken yrs after 1971. It was during one of the yrs he didn't have a mustach - maybe late 1982. I had pulled this a along time ago and would have to find its place in the album to give an accurate date. I made one of them B&W to help with the perception. I do not know how to make a panoramic. The Sluggo Composite which is an official Composite was to my knowledge never released. The the BW uupclose Grouch - needs to be viewed together side by side with the Sluggo Composite. The Unoffical Rose - is the one in which he said - no one agreed on hair or mouth - he made the mouth a pursing and that was not what they describe. It was an expression, but not a pursing of the lips nor did they consider it a snarl as is exaggerated in Weber's pic - I caught him off guard and he didn't like for someone to take unposed pics of him - maybe this explains why. I would like to point out his NOSE in this picture - as in others I have DOES not appear large, but very much in accordance to the composites. Also note the ears look different. It is all in the camera angle and the position and view angle. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

There was NO reference to WHICH sketch they all agreed on. I was most assuredly not the first which was a superman type and the second the Bing Crosby look alike. It comes down to the lost Rose drafts and the one that was finally used. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Post by Georger "By the way Georger I have only told a couple of very little WHITE lies" Post by Orange thin edge of the wedge, grey area, etc etc. lies are lies. you didn't need to tell any lies to protect anyone Jo; after all there were plenty of times you simply claimed not to release info to protect people. i am afraid i am with georger on this one. your story had no credibility anyway; admission of lies just understates this. ------------------------------------ ------------------------------- Orange - you are incredulous. Are you saying you won't tell a white lie to protect? If your mother said she thought she look old - would you actually tell her she looked old. If you had information regarding a friend or someone you like that could harm them if you repeated - Would you repeat it? ARE YOU saying YOU would NOT tell a WHITE lie to protect someone you know or to protect them? Yuck that STINKS! What kind of friend or mother are you? 9999999999999999 6666666666666666 999999999999999999 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Jo will leave you with these word for the night: It was made to appear I was the one being rude - if I was being rude in pointing out what a white lie is then I am indeed sorry... If not for little white lies - this would be a CRUEL CRUEL world. They are the only LIES I CHOOSE to make. Hope all of you have enjoyed the thread and that you had fun poking around at Cooper. There is a lot of history here if you are able to separate the truth from the fiction. It has amazed me how many times Georger and Snow and others have changed opposing sides and ideas.

A lot of people ask me if Jo Weber is insane. I just keep on walking. ===================

"By the way Georger I have only told a couple of very little WHITE lies" Orange states: thin edge of the wedge, grey area, etc etc. lies are lies. you didn't need to tell any lies to protect anyone Jo; after all there were plenty of times you simply claimed not to release info to protect people. i am afraid i am with georger on this one. your story had no credibility anyway; admission of lies just understates this. ------------------------------------ ------------------------------- Orange - you are incredulous. Are you saying you won't tell a white lie to protect? If your mother said she thought she look old - would you actually tell her she looked old. If you had information regarding a friend or someone you like that could harm them if you repeated - Would you repeat it? ARE YOU saying YOU would NOT tell a WHITE lie to protect someone you know or to protect them? Yuck that STINKS! What kind of friend or mother are you? Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Ckret was not the VICTIM of an Obsessive Grudge. He was a victim of his own Actions. He was unprofessional in his actions and words...too much into extraneous subjections and making himself public with hypothecital theories touted to the public. His behaviour was immature and impulsive - He might be good at robberies, but cold cases - he doesn't have the motivation to dig. I passed a piece of information to Ckret (CARR) that he ignored, and I specifically asked him to examine a specific record one more time to see if he didn't see an irregularity there considering the time - 1945. Well, I final found someone who could do this - along with myself - and we found something the FBI did not find or too inept to find. We now need for someone to dig into the archives of California to the 40's. I told Carr exactly where to go and what to look for but no "tea" time. It was not like they needed to look at yrs of record - we are talking a few months. Those few months give us Duane's connections to jumping in the beginning and his "grudge". Then there is a second connection to Jumping they ignored, found by the brother (prior to 2000) when the FBI closed the file on Duane Weber..permanently at that time. Please note that there was a military inquiry prior to 1998 - one that beat the FBI to the punch. I am not sure how this party acquired the information except to say that he had a friend who was an FBI agent and was just making an inquiry about a younger relative of his. Since this young relatives name had NOT been mentioned in relation to a crime - the information was readily available. I have been told an FBI agent couldn't do that - but the guy was just enquiring about his family member for genealogy purposes - but, later when this relatives possible involvement in a major unsolved crime becomes public - that information become "secret". NO LONGER AVAILABLE! Sorry but you got me going on the FBI again...because it is the major part of discussions going on outside of this forum. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Brian was a child - when children come running with money in their hands - the crumbles fall. A child is not going to dig a hole for a fire. All he was doing was clearing an indent to build the fire in. At the most he could have cleared away 3 inches of sand to make an area for the fire. Have ANY of you ever built fires on the river - then GO build on in sandy soil on the river. Unless there was a tide in those two day that could have brouht water over the area - tide would not be a factor in dispersing other fragments. From the area pointed out to me (while I was in Washington) - on an average day there would BE no tide to hit that area. HEAVY SNOW Melt Off along with a "normal' tide (I don't know how the tide works there - but I did learn that it is NOT normal for the tides to go up to where the money was except when snow melts/rain). The Fazios can explain that to Bruce before they die like everyone else has or is. When some one talks to them - it has to be on 1971 - 1980 stats, because as dams are built and just usuage cause the rivers to change. Any Flooding that brought the river up is a factor. I know from hearsay (woman who lived there and the Fazios) there had been at least one flood since 1971 and before 1980. You are forcing me to have to talk about something I am NOT qualified about and the rivers I am accustomed to are different than the Columbia with the influence of the Willamett within a short distance. FIND an old timer who lived on that river - and talk to them. I did - she was born and raised on that river, but was away at school during those yrs - so could not give any details for the time needed. Fazio is the one who needs to have those questions asked directly to him - without a lot of to do. What I am saying - he is getting old - make the subject of the conversation ONLY about tide - and tell him before you go - and don't ask anything else until AFTER he has told you all he can about the tides of 1971 - 1980. Old folks like me - can't handle 2 much at one time. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

My My how you do jump to conclusions! Perhaps you should pick up the phone and do exactly what I did to day. Call Himmelsbach. Himmelsbach stated there was no briefcase or pieces of briefcase found. Tosaw talked to the detectives and FBI - and to Ingram. The money was just below the surface and there was no other money found other than what has been reported...other than what may have separated from the one bundle which had lost its rubber band. ====================== Only to tell you - you are making a bigger FOOL out of yourself than I ever made. At least I have held my ground on my story - explored, but always went back to the basics. Yesterday I was preparing some things to send to XXXXXXX, when I found something - The FBI agents screwed up with Duane's prison records - they didn't try to find out how he got from A to C and what happened to B. A piece information Doug acquired explained it - no one looked at the date or had the information provided by the family until a later date. Therefore the FBI DID NOT do a good check of Weber's past. Will what they missed put him in that plane or in a chute? I put him in a chute and then they tell me I have to put him on the Plane - now go figure! By the way Georger I have only told a couple of very little WHITE lies to protect other people in relating what I know and was told and saw and learned. As far as a debris field - I know that answer - but pick up the phone and call him or even Ingram - he was just a kid, but he might be a better witness than an FBI agent who is rambling at best...perhaps pulling Bruce's leg just a little. Did you read Tosaw's book? Did you read the Palmer Report? Did you talk to Himmelsbach? Where you there in 1971? NO briefcase and the debris field was less than 20Ft. Considering Brian had already brought the money to the surface - and a couple of days before the FBI converged on the area - that would explain the 20 ft debris area. NO MONEY was found outside of that area. You aren't contributing to the Hunt for D.B. Cooper, but you are contributing to the Proliferation of Myths: D.B.Cooper Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Has someone has been snooping around Oregon and Washington? Could a young man who picked fruit in the area have been Cooper....no one remembers his name - could have been Dusty or Buster - it was too far back and no employment records...this was around the mid 40's - just a scrawny kid back then...took most jobs offered him..and he managed to get some forestry training and work on the pipeline. Did a lot of climbing around the ridges and caves when he wasn't working. Stayed around about 2 yrs and then one day he was just up and gone. They figured he went back to wherever he came from. Seems he got a girl pregnant and she left the area. Next time anyone hears she is in the East... and he is in jail. It was so long ago and back in the mid fourties pickers and CPS and misfits came and went - not many paid them much mind no one left to remember them.,,those that do just don't remember cause the youngest one is 89 yrs old and most all of them are dead... A road way bar in Dollar Corner remembered this guy would sing up a storm for his drinks and he alway hung around some rangers and jumpers whenever they paid a visit.... Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Georger is simply trumping up Cooks book and you guys are eating right out of his hand. Don't you know these 2 guys talk all of the time. Georger KNOWS what the Palmer report said or did the FBI loose it...like they lost the cigarrette butts! One cannot be an expert in all fields. Palmer was trained to do the job he did - and he had first hand knowledge of the money and the ground yet, a bunch of guys can get on the computer and try to change an official report. Reports can err, but there is ONE thing for certain - the money found in the COLUMBIA was protected or stored for most of those 8 yrs. The money and rubber bands could not have been directly in contact with the water and ground for more than one yr. Rather than this constant controversary - why don't one of you contact the FBI and ASK for the Palmer Report to made PUBLIC? Then you could argue this subject intelligently rather than continue to repeat yourselves. ASK yourselves WHY the PALMER REPORT has never been made public? THINK! Public knowledge of the PALMER REPORT and its contents if revealed to anyone person outside of the FBI without it becoming a part of the FIOA is MISCARRIAGE of JUSTICE and subjects the party releasing the information to anyone unauthorized person - due cause for dismissal from his or her position. Georger is talking like he has READ the Palmer Report. Then it has to be made available to ALL to read - NO interpretation can be made of the report without its availability. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Okay Snowmman you are such a smart you know what - now prove how smart you really are. I am getting too old to keep up with all of this...so you use those abilities of yours and find out what the name Van Buren (may be spelled as one word ( VanBuren). This name has fired back at me. I know Duane had a relative with VanBuren as the middle name, but somewhere in my searching - VanBuren came up in relations to jumping - war or smoke - I don't remember and my mind is so full of the things I have learned today - that I have to take some time for ME. Please do what you can do on the name VanBuren in relation to jumping from 1940 to 1979 - in the WA and OR area. THIS is very important. I have linked with one of the books - NOT what I was looking for but a link...I was told a story I had heard before, but from Duane. It was as though I had stepped back in time. Those books where NOT from the shop or accumulated thru the shop...but the date I was told (there is NO publications date) would put one of the books after 1971 - if she is right)...but it is the accessibility of the book that has my attention right now. Regardless this is keeping me busy - but I do need some help on the Van Buren name - I couldn't find it - but I remembered it came up in either the smokejumber or McNeil searching and it is related to the The Dalles area. I know it is a common name - but help me please. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

I do not believe I am substituting wishes for facts. Remember that NO one for yrs even considered these books I had, but they continued to haunt me and then I started to really look at them. At first it was just me trying to find what Duane's connection to the books was. I thought may they had belonged to his wife, sister or mother and that maybe the picture was of his daughter or his sister as a child. Had I not been told the relatives of someone on the plane had made an enquiry about some books that were not returned after the hijacking - they may have stayed on the shelf for the rest of my life. Curiously I posted the pic of the child and mentioned the books. Then recently I decided to research the backgrounds of those 2 books rather than to just speculate on their meaning. I EXPECTED to find they belonged to Duane's mother or sister or ex-wife - that was quickly ruled out due to dates and origins. Before I knew it I was on the chase - then found what I have reported about the 1st book. Today I found the author of the second book and its origin. I will be talking to her in the next couple of days as she has just recently had surgery..and did not feel like trying to talk at that time. This woman lives in Oregon and her location in Oregon gave me goose bumps! I expect I will have to take a pill to sleep tonight...the anticipation is going to be high and the expectations, but I will report back to the forum only the truth as I have with the first book. What do I know about the books so far. 1. Subject matter was not one Duane had knowledge or interest in, but is an item handed down to a family member. 2. Number of copies publish is very low. 3. They are specialized books. 4. They did NOT come from Duane or his wife or the family. 5. Question - what was Duane's obsession with these books? Why would he caution me to be very careful when he noted I was reading one of them a couple of yrs after he brought them into the house? It was at that time I asked who the little girl was - and he said it was just a picture. 6. Outside of disclosing the books and the authors you know what I know for now. You asked why I put them on flight 305? You would have to be me to read between the lines, so I guess you are right - my mind works differently - perhaps because I knew Weber and you guys didn't. Hell, I had to be "different" to have swallowed his lies all of those yrs and not see thru his deceptions. I do hope the author can shed some light on this book and offer an explanation that makes some sense...but I have a GUT feeling what she will tell me will only ADD to the mystery - simply because of where she lives. When I found it on the map it gave me quiet a start. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Bull, I only posted a picture of the little girl's photo (a photo what was use maybe as a book marker). The photo was NOT part of the book. It was Sluggo that said it looked like Tina. I did not connect Tina until that time and picture of Tina was posted. There was speculation at that time, because the text of the book was "righteous" in its context. The recent research this was a result of finding the author had mention an individual by the name of Tina. The most recent research and speaking with the author resulted in my finding that Tina was just a name she liked. I did not ask her if she knew someone named Tina. Go back to the date of the pictures of the child and then go forward and keep the sequences straight rather than try to create chaos...and your own interpretation. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

I see NOTHING connecting the Tina book to NW Flt 305. What am I missing???? 377 The origins and limited publication of both books...and the age...and the enquiries made by passengers or on behalf of passengers about belongings never being returned. If Cooper did not touch the overheads - there would be NO reason for the FBI in fingerprint items in those locations or to confiscate any of the items belonging to the passengers. Also the discrepancies and inconsistency of the bag description and the likely-hood of the FBI not complying with Cooper's request. The white bank bag with a drawstring was a sutle delay tactic - but, it back fired after Cooper took note of this and allowed the passengers and crew to leave. Cooper was resourceful and so was Tina... The FBI expected him to become disoriented about the bag - but that didn't happen. He made do and was NOT foolish enough to jump with a thin unsecured bank bag..... I will note that Weber was always observant of everthing and everyone around him at all times in our yrs. together. He saw that bag come on board and knew the person DID not take it forward with them. Perhaps Tina opened the overhead cabinets to check for the belongings of passengers after they went forward...this is routine. She would have been checking those overheads before they landed in Seattle. Weber never missed things like that...probably looking for something he could steal - this I would gather after finding out about his records. I asked the FBI yrs ago if the witnesses had observed such a trait in Cooper - this very alert and keen watching of people and circumstances and things going on around him. Now in retrospect I can anwer that question myself - he was a THIEF. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Snow: you would NOT find this book in ANY library and it is not the sort of Book Weber would have been interested in. ============================================== I NEVER said Tina was on the cover - all I said was there were little sketches in the book and one is of the little girl the author named Tina. There was a photo in the book (not connected to the book or part of the book) of a child who resembles the picture of Tina. The author told me she used the name Tina because she liked the name. ============================================== Snow I will try to help you understand this: It was "my theory" that maybe these books may have belonged to Tina and she used one of them to entertain Cooper with "due to the words within the book" - or that this book belonged to a family member. These books could still belonged to Tina, but they DEFINITELY do not belong to Weber's family because of the origins and dates. Right now these books are very SPECIFIC to Flight 305 - because of the origins of the books. Since Nov. 24 1971 was a traditional Holiday wk-end - I HAVE ever reason to believe Tina or a passenger carried these book on board. The rumor of relatives regarding one of the passengers making enquiries about some books never returned to them - has been bugging me since that time - yet, I have NEVER been able to find anything regarding this rumor. My research on these books since that time and their total disconnection to Weber or his family and the origins of the books - are cause for me to spend the time to do what the FBI did not do. I have more phone calls to make on the other book. If anyone has a flight manifest and or knows how to contact anyone on the flight or their family please PM me with that information or call me. The passengers I previous contacted 14 yrs ago about the skyjacking were Finegold and Mitchell (the old phone numbers do not belong to them now). Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

This week I was able to trace the author and artist of one of the books. This book was orginally done under another title prior to it "remake" for a very special and coveted organization under the cover of that organization. Only 3000 copies where made available. This was 1960 or 1961, but the first production of this under a different cover was done 10 yrs before around 1950. The author is 90 plus yrs old today and of sound mind - we had a bit of an unusual conversation. She was puzzled how one of her books ever ended up in Florida. I did not tell her my story, just that is was a book my husband was very attached to and about a picture of a little girl in it...that perhaps it had belonged to his mother or sister. This explanation was a white lie on my part to explain my phone call and my unusual questions. Because of the production and availability of the book - at the time the book was produced Duane's mother had already passed away in CA. The sister was also living in CA. at that time and no family member lived in the vicincity of the local sales of that book. Nothing explaines this book being in Duane's possession in 1990 other than his having stored it where the other items had been stored. It was just an old book - he never opened it, but he sure wanted me to be careful of it. Since there was no family connection to this book nor was if of any value - and considering its origin there is only ONE explanation for this book. Had it been just an item to add to my collection, he would have had NO problem with my use of it. The other book is about the same age, but I do not have a date available. I will be working on it's source tomorrow and that takes me to WA and OR. What I have here is a trail of sorts - books generic only to specific locations and those being on both ends of flight 305. Sweet Dreams Snowmman. YOUR days of creating trivia will soon be over and you shall have to find another pass time. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

I believe this is what they mean when one can hear a pin drop in a crowded room...! It was known the pilot saw Cooper packing the money into what he believed was one of the chest packs. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

It is too large, but is there not another way to save it - such as to a disk. If the the FBI has their way - my last post might make this thread POOF! I have been trying to find the person who claimed some books belonging to a relative where never returned. The FBI knows who they are, but they don't want anyone to know this - just collateral damage - like the cigarrette butts. TRY talking to the FBI - they do NOT give a damn! Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

The money was transferred to another container inside of the plane - after Cooper expressed concern to Tina about the type of container provided. Multiple containers use for carry on had been left by the passengers and crew who had disembarked. The passengers could not go to the Aft overhead to collect their belonging - these would supposedly be returned to them later. I have heard of some individuals who claimed they are missing items that were NOT returned to them or their relatives. Since not all got their belongings right away it was due to the collection of evidence - but some never got all of their belongings. Among those items missing I believe you will find two books...and a suitable container. Cooper did not go to all that trouble to jump with a package he might loose. The Captain is reported as stating he saw Cooper packing the money in what he thought was one of the front packs. He may have saw that and Cooper may have been agitated. If Tina nor the Captain provided the container then Cooper just helped himself to a container stored in those Aft overheads. The stewardesses may have collected some of the objects in the overhead and took them forward. I expect Cooper did not allow passengers to disembark until he was provided with another container - but he was not going to give the FBI a chance to get onto that plane. I told this to Carr and prior agents but NOT anyone of them would listen to me. They were not allowed to contact the crew because it had been agreed not to ask them any questions. WHY would a FBI agent NOT be allowed to talk to a witness when new information is introduced regarding a new suspect. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

it's not possible to do thread-specific searches on this forum, right? So I don't know why someone would say "I searched the old thread" You can search, limiting by certain things. But to a specific thread, I think not? Am I missing something? PICK PICK PIKE! I have learned to search but, don't like that it only produces just the title, date and thread the post was in. I did word and phrase searches on the complete forum choosing on post by Ckret and was looking only for dates prior to the date this thread began. That is how I searched - I also have a HARD COPY of that first thread. After I located the discussion I went to the hard copy. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Quoted with emphasis on certain phrases: "In order to obtain the $200,000 in cash, arrangements were made with Seattle First National Bank, through its airport branch. The money was taken from the vault of the bank's downtown facility, and transported to the airport by bank personnel and the Seattle police. The release of cash funds after normal banking hours resulted in a debit to plaintiff's account which was repaid by a transfer credit on the next banking day. Mr. William C. Grinnell, an officer of Seattle First National Bank, arrived at the Seattle airport at approximately 5 p.m. with the money. He first proceeded to the airport branch of the bank to pick up the branch manager, who then accompanied Mr. Grinnell to plaintiff's air freight terminal, a 'premises' of plaintiff insured within the meaning of the subject insurance policy. An authorized official of plaintiff gave a receipt for the $200,000 while it was Inside the terminal. Mr. Grinnell transferred possession of the $200,000 to Captain Elwood M. Lee, a Northwest [303 Minn. 19] official designated to transport the money to the hijacked airplane, which had landed at the Seattle airport and was parked at the end of a runway. Captain Lee proceeded to the airplane in an automobile and delivered the money to Stewardess Tina Larson, who carried the money into the airplane and surrendered direct physical custody of it to the hijacker. Upon receipt thereof, Cooper allowed the passengers to leave the airplane. Stewardess Larson also delivered the parachutes and other items to Cooper, who was still in the rear cabin of the aircraft. At that time, he allowed two other stewardesses to leave the airplane. Cooper, Stewardess Larson, and the cockpit crew of three men remained on board". This is also quoted but I don't remember who the original contributor was: "Cooper made an inspection of the chutes when Tina was present. As well as the money and the bag the money came in. He made his concerns clear to Tina about the money bag. He checked the money and made statements about that. He stated several times, "no funny stuff," providing nonfunctioning equipment would be funy stuff. Reason dictates that if he new the reserve was a dummy he would have said something about that as well." This statement could have a LOT of meaning and hold secrets that have never been told. What if? Tina offer up another container that could have held "most" of the money after he tried to use one of the reserves for a container. Perhaps something that belonged to one of the passengers as they were not allowed to take possession of anything they left in the aft cabin - the container she borrowed may have had a book in it or two ...or he just took the books because he had touched them.. This explaines something I was told about a passenger complaining about some books missing. She supposedly contacted one of the media in the last few yrs, but I was unable to find any information on this person...or to verify the story. The person who told me the story was reliable, but didn't know the source himself...just something said to him after one of the media incidents in the last few yrs. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

I have seached the old thread and cannot find anything about Carr mentioning the bag having leather handles or a closure. Yet, for some reason we think he said this - maybe on a TV program? One would think if Cooper asked for a knapsack - they were aware he required something to help him transport the money. I would think if the money was delivered in a bag with only a drawstring as Himmelsbach has said - this would have made Cooper angry - did they really want to make him MAD with a bomb and a plane full of people. Was Himmelsbach actually at the airport when the money was delivered? Perhaps another agent made a different arrangement for the container prior to delivering it to the plane, because a witness on the plane claimed to have seen the bag when the money was delivered and was explicit in its description. I find it odd they would have even actually have considered delivering the money in an open fabric bag...did someone hold on to the bag in transport to the airport? If you think about this - the idea of an open end bag is ridiculous and it is one of the "secrets" the FBI has kept. Although Carr DID not state this - I know for a fact (having talked to individuals who were on the plane before and after) the money delivery - there are things that have never been told...this is definitely one of them. Witnesses 38 yrs ago where instructed what to say and not say...but 38 yrs is a long time to hold onto a lie - or to remember what you were instructed to not say. The idea of delivering an open end bag to Cooper could have caused Cooper to go into a state of rage. Therefore if the money left the bank in a open end bag - when it was carried on to that plane it WAS inside of a different kind of container. Someone did not want Cooper to get upset and ignite a fuse. I will bet my on that and the only ones who will change my opinion are Tina and Florence (since they saw him put his hand in the bag and remove some money to offer up as a tip, because the airlines didn't pay them well enough). There were others who saw that bag. Others crew members and passengers who looked back because they had not been allowed to disembark for sometime. They were restless and curious. I do believe that Ckret screwed up and mentioned this to someone in a private email - and do not feel it was just a figment of our imaginations.

Georger I edited out part of what you said - ONLY to make a point. Georger those are two good pictures and your idea about the History Detectives - is a great idea. They would concentraate ONLY on the bag and who knows what they might discover along the way. I have heard several different descriptions of that bag from people who should know - and those who interviewed the witnesses and the writers of books who also claim to have spoke with the witnesses and dectectives and what one witness has made claim to. Perhaps it would be a good exercise to mention each by name - then the descriptions they gave of the bags over the yrs. Not to use our own concept of the bag...show them after they make their description, pictures of all possible bags and choosing the one closest. What I have heard 1.Himmelsbach: a. bag with a drawstring. 2.Tosaw Plain grey canvas sack with no zipper, drawstring or any other way to close it. 3. Tina Mucklow (someone needs to reference any statements she made to the media. She was the person who I understood handed the bag to Cooper. 4. Since she was present when Cooper offered money to Tina didn't she also see the bag. It was after the money arrived that the witnesses and part of the crew were released. 5. Unidentified witness Claimed bag was a satchel with a leather handle and this person claimed to have seen the bag. 6. Carr by way of his having access to the file . Did he read that part off and if that this part of the FOIA. Canvass bag with leather handle. 7. Media - useless unless the writer actually interviewed the witness or FBI - (then the statesments would be added to those of that "witness"). 8. Gunter - (he did interview one of the stewardess) - claims canvas Bank bag the size and weight of 2 very large city phone books. It was one of the very early documentaries that stated satchel and it even showed Cooper with a leather and canvas satchel. Flat retangular base, with leather straps and leather handle. The 2 photos that Georger posted are good. The whitish - grainy bag is similar to what I saw, but it seemed like the writing went the other way - but I only opened it part way.. The heavier bag with the closure on it is similar to what one of the witnesses said, but I got the opinion it had a very secure closing on it..from the description given. If we can develope good photos of all kinds of bags it could have been and then show these pictures to a witness - we nail down the bag. This is what the History detective would do. . Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber