skyjack71

Since U do NOT have anything better to do. What is the percentage since DAY ONE - of postings by JO Weber on the entire thread. Hell, I could do it, but WHO cares! I am not even discussing the subject tonight - have more important things on my mind! LIKE being ABLE to BREATH! Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

What the heck! Don't U have anything better to do?

Hey Sweetie - I might get a little disjointed once in a while, but I stay in the saddle - haven't been throw off the horse yet! As for wedging fables - NOT hardly. Did you read about Camino? Did you read about the beginning of the smoke jumpers? Did you even note or try to read between the lines - that I also KNOW much more than what I put on the thread? A lot of pieces have fallen into place - enough that the FBI will GET that letter I hesitated to send with PHOTOS! U have NO idea what is coming down or is going to happen. U are concerned JO did make a link she WAS not supposed to make. I won't do anything to damage the memory of any one person. He did the RIGHT things and was NOT responsible for actions outside of his watch. He was admired and did what was right. He will not be part of this sordid story about a wayward young man. If you had opened your damn emails to me I would not have had to post this in forum. Remember I talk in riddles and I am off my rocker so who would believe me anyway. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Try to be nice - Blevins is trying to keep low key about KC and his book and his company. At least his post have been better quality than Meyer and Mrshutter recently....and he is trying to be objective. U my sweet BABOON have not made many quality post lately - what is wrong? U used to be a great source of information. Why do you not go to bat for Kaye? U know that the opinions stated do NOT reflect what Kaye was stating nor what he was trying to interject into the mix. U know Kaye - perhaps U could get him to make a simple short statement explaining his statement about the one yr condition of the money - so it will not continued to be battered upon. He needs to gear the language for Trolls and Geeks and help bring them down before they trash his research to pieces. I realize he is NOT part of this, but he did invest a lot of time and money - and his words need to be defended...and perhaps explained a little more so others will grasp the meanings he intended. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

I think the moderator and the DZ would consider your post above not only inappropriate, but a threat. The OLD original DZ owners & moderators would have addressed the post above made by Mrshutter immediately. Never has the Cooper thread been allowed to get this far out of hand! Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Jo, Please list YOUR qualifications for EVALUATING Tom Kaye's experiments and conclusions. Also, please list YOUR qualifications for IGNORING Tom Kaye's experiments and conclusions. And that is exactly what you are doing. Robert99 THIS is what I mean! You are a TROLL - I would never try to explain what Kaye meant by the statements he made, but YOU do inject YOUR interpertation as being what Kaye meant. Precisely what U just did with my post. U Robert99 CLAIMED you were qualified to make an interpretation and U did SO in this thread. THIS IS TROLLING the way U present your opinions and attack others who U know are NOT projecting an opinion about the statement of KAYE. WHEN I do I am very explicit and separate what is said from what I think and I usually QUALIFY my opinion.... with I think, but I do NOT judge what Kaye said NOR do I twist what KAYE SAID in the manner in which U and others have done. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

I absolutely loved the statement you made below! It was fantastic and I only know one person who would have done what Cooper did. I can picture the face of Duane Weber when he did that. I probably have a picture somewhere of an older Weber with the expression he must have had on his face when he offered the money to her. It would have been a childlike expression - one of GLEE! "Tena Bar Money: Don't think about it too many hours in a row. It'll give you a headache for sure. This would be a cheap price to pay if it worked. The alternative is forty years in prison. Also...remember he did offer Tina some of the ransom."

--------------------------------- There are others Blevins besides U and myself who have read Kaye's work and DO not interpret it the WAY Robert99 does. Have U noticed that there are only 3 guys who post regularly besides U and myself. George is the 4th, but he has NOT made much sense in a while (since none of us know him personally perhaps he has issues also as U and I are constantly accused of having - MORE LIKELY just utter frustration with the direction of the thread and the personalities of the posters). Maybe he just gave up trying to preserve the truths. U nor I have been easy to deal with. In a NUTSHELL[RED] the poster atmosphere has become hostile. I don't agree with U, but as of recent you have NOT harped on CK. Hostile posts breed hostile posts and these individual are NOT interested in the crime - THEY are here to be heard. U and I came here (your own motive in the beginning was the same as some of the recent postings by others). You have only recently changed your mode and I do like that. NONE of these posters - who are harping on the money find are qualified to even give an opinion.Georger is NOT part of that group, but he like the rest of us who try to deal with logic has become agitated. There are certain posters in the thread who are here for ONLY one reason - to destroy an informational site and make it a troll site. These people only wish to agitate and cause controversary. Robert99 - has no credentials to interpert Kaye's findings and about a YR ago Kaye made a brief appearance in the thread to straighten out some of the controversaries (such as these guys introduced) to make it clear what he was saying. It didn't work now there are TROLLS attacking his work. This thread is NO LONGER about SOLVING this crime - IT is about who can take facts and twist them. They are TROLLS and their only goal is to destroy logical and real work done by many people over these last few yrs and leave only the twisted opinions of themselves. They have no real interest in this case being solved - all they are trying to do is confuse the facts and get individuals upset. It is how they get their jollies off! Sad - so sad! IN the process they have destroyed real work and personal interests most of us have regarding this case. [redThey have slowly replaced FACTS with Trivia and their own self-importance with the research of those who have been doing this for many yrs. Per Certain individuals who have been posting - I am considered a fantasy story teller and liar and supposedly telling lies about people I have spoke with and that nothing I ever claimed happened - if I do NOT present proof and disclose on this thread my witnesses and all of my research. Why would I do that? To cause harm to those who have trusted me with information & provided paths for me follow. Absolutely not! These trolls just need someone to bully and to control. When they picked on a 70 plus old lady who actually has lived this story for 17 yrs - the picked the wrong person! I like many others will be moving on - because of the trolls and the constant distortion of facts. No real researcher wants to come here any more. Unfortunately some of the deliberate mis-nomers made by the trolls will become part of the History the younger generation will digest as truths. This case like others - has now been so distorted in the presentation that no one will be able to ever make a truth known. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

RUBBER BANDS ANALYSIS Tom did experiments with rubber bands in sand and water. He concludes that their lifetime in either sand or water is less than a year. He states that this suggests the money became buried at Tena Bar within a year of the hijacking in 1971. Tom states that his data does not support the dredging theory and that, in turn, does not support the Washougal Washdown Theory. THIS is a PLAIN old Common Sense of what AN old COUNTRY girl thinks Kaye meant by that statement (note if does NOT sound as though Kaye wrote the above as stated but how a writer interperted what he as saying). 1. The lifetime of the band is less than 1 yr in sand or in water. 2. The money was buried within a yr of the hijacking in 1971. DOES NOT mean it was on that beach - it would have to have been in a protected area - not in the WATER and/or on THE BEACH from 1971. Seems like for the language used that someone else was writing that for KAYE and it was also the interpretation of the writer. I would LIKE to read a STATEMENT made BY KAYE himself AS TO what he meant! I want to READ a clear and concise statement by KAYE - not one interpreted or written by others. It was my understanding that his opinion came right back to the Palmer Report - that the money had been in the River and on the beach for LESS than a year - all based on the rubber bands and the condition of the money. Where the money/band was and how it survived - wasn't in the river for 8 yrs and wasn't on the beach for 8 yrs. Could we get KAYE to make a statement in his own words - in a simple manner that EVERYONE could understand and that would NOT be subjected to the interpretation from others? CLEAR and CONCISE! He was NOT able to discount Palmers word as I understood it! Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Elementary lessons" Kaye Stated: RUBBER BANDS ANALYSIS Tom did experiments with rubber bands in sand and water. He concludes that their lifetime in either sand or water is less than a year. He states that this suggests the money became buried at Tena Bar within a year of the hijacking in 1971. Tom states that his data does not support the dredging theory and that, in turn, does not support the Washougal Washdown Theory. MONEY ANALYSIS Tom did experiments with actual bills and concluded that they would fan out on both ends (with a rubber band snugly holding the bills in the middle) within minutes of being submerged and would then sink to the bottom within a matter of minutes. Tom also concluded that, "Bundles of money 'floating' onto a beach like Tena Bar has a low probability and would require strong enough water flow to push the bundles onto the beach." THE REMAINDER OF THIS POST IS ROBERT99'S OPINIONS AND SPECULATIONS In my opinion, Tom Kaye's conclusions about the money arriving at Tena Bar within a year of the hijacking is correct and supported by his data. Also, Tom's conclusions about the dredging and Washougal Washdown theories are also correct. If the money made it to the bottom of the Washougal or Columbia Rivers, it would probably never have surfaced again. But it appears conclusive that Tom's work indicates that the money was at Tena Bar prior to the end of 1972 and that the washdown and dredging theories are invalid. Robert99 Robert - WHAT DO YOU seem NOT able to GRASP about KAYE's statement and WHY do you twist it to FIT Your AGENDA? My uneducated and knowing nothing about water and money does NOT translate Kaye statement as you have twisted it into YOUR opinion and REPEATED it to suit your needs - not a scientific one at that. A born and raise farm girl out of KY read Kayes statement much different than U do. Maybe we could GET Kaye to come here and CLARIFY if YOUR grasp is what he was saying. I think NOT. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

I just remember I spoke to the neice - I would have to find the notes - if his wife was still living it might not have been a second wife or she may have been incapacitated. I would have to find the notes on that....but, I am sure I still have them. SOME place in all of this CRAP! I found an email from the neice. "I can tell you that this is NOT my uncle Marvin F. Doerksen". I sent her the site address and emailed the 2 pics from the site in the event she couldn't find the site. The date of the contact was 9/22/2008. I found a list of phone numbers along with the fire.ca.gov site. I have multiple emails and phone numbers - I think I called all of them before I got a connection thru a geneaologist friend. The Duerksen (how it was spelled in at least by some). Reference to the individual are in multiple files and records regarding Camino. One thing that was of great interest to me was Camino being very near Placerville. A place Duane even mention an address of "where WE used to live" - meaning the guys. The guys floated among the camps. When Duane told me about Placerville was on the side trip we took on our way home from WA. to Tahoe. Duane mentioned a lake - he called Lake Pyramid and said he knew a man who used to live there and describe the place he lived in. Duane talked about what was between the Highway and Pryamid - and this is ONE time he mentioned JUMPING. Why I jumped on the Pryamid story yrs ago.... because of what Duane told me. I had many conversation with people who lived in Pyramid, but never got to anyone old enough to share anything with me. I need to go there and find that mans name - In Tahoe Duane told me about Placerville, Camino, ONE of the camps was less than 10 miles East of both Duarte & Arcadia. GUESS who LIVE in Duarte and ARCADIA. Duane parents and his sister! Duane had talked about Glendora - HOW did he KNOW all of this if he was NOT there?????? Duane had told me about going CHRISTMAS Caroling in Placerville - the guys got in a little trouble. I didn't know who the guys were and he didn't tell me. My old note and memo's and I am on a roll down memory lane. So much from the early yrs I have pushed away. Things he told me and things the family shared with me. GUESS the FAMILY name of the people who ran the camps. Duerksen and Harder and Unruh. A little strange right? WELL, they had camps all over and in the very places Duane spent so much time and was so knowledgeable of. FT. Collins, Camino, LaPine in Oregon, Cascade Locks, In 1943 first yr of smokejumper training!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pay ATTENTION! ARRIVED at MISSOULA ? MONTANA in May. NOT sure at all what that meant in my notes. 1st group trained May 17 thru Jun 16 1943.????????????THINK 2ed Group - 6/12 thru 6/10 of 43. THINK THINK?????? Overlap - overlap- overlap. So the new jumpers could help orient the new jumpers. Camp opened in May of 1963 and closed in Dec of 1946 CARGO KICKERS. The guy who was NOT a jumper but who pushed the supplies out of the cargo planes. They could work for the CIA and still do forestry work in the states during the summer. 1961 - Bay of Pigs, 1962 JOHN COLLINS appears, What was the insignia for the RAVENS???? 377 - I think U posted this one time before! But there were so many of those patches I sold at the garage sale I couldn't actually remember the one there. Love the way this is explained. After 1962 some many went on to pursue careers with the CIA or OTHER INTELLIGENCE ORGANIZATIONS? Covert? Think about this 1962 until 1966 Duane WEBER disappeared of the FACE of the EARTH. EVEN the FBI won't reveal where he was or what he did until 1966. SO where was he for 4 yrs? The yrs the woman of the day claimed she knew Paperlegs wife and claimed to have a picture of the two of them about 15 miles from the "In Plane Site" area. She said she hated it. NOW think - 1962 Paperlegs started training the INTERMOUNTAIN group right out of CANON CITY CO. DUANE was supposedly encarcerated at Canon Prison 1960 to 1962. Duane becomes Johnnie Collins and goes to Leadville and the other area above Ft. Collins -Weber is EVERYWHERE Paperlegs is for 4 YRS! So IF the FBI wants to dispell this - then TELL me WHERE WEBER WAS 1962 to 1966? PLEASE SEND THE FBI A COPY OF THIS - I NEED TO KNOW THEIR ANSWER. SINCE THIS COMPLETE POST IS ACCURATE - I WANT EXPLANATION - NOT FROM U GUYS BUT FROM THE FBI. WHY don't All of u send a copy of this post to the FBI. If they don't pay attention this is HOW the story is coming DOWN! Do they ACTUALLY want Cooper to be a HERO? Or do they want him to be the BAD ASS that maybe he really was? OF course they want him to be DEAD! Well, I got news for them - yea, he is dead and I got him. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

I found his family - and they said he was NEVER in CA. There were 2 members of the family to back this up. Without going to the notes - one just did NOT exist (at least he is NOT deceased or was not deceased with I did the work). The other one I found and I found his family. The pictures where NOT pictures of their relative. THis is HOW I traced that picture and KNOW the man in the pic is NOT Marvin. Perhaps it is Melvin, but there is NOT record on Melvin - NOTHING at all. I even made a phone call to Canada regarding Melvin - but NONE of the Melvins were that Melvin. The records provided to me were extensive. I made LOTS and LOTS of phone call all over the country. I sent letters and pictures. Marvin was NOT the guy in the picture and HE was NEVER in CAMINO. This came from his neice and she also spoke with another member of the family. Can't remember now if I sent the photo, but I am sure I did and it was confirmed NOT MARVIN! Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

I spent a lot of time and money chasing the Melvin and Marvin which are by the way the same person. They got the name wrong in the book or the site. I have explained he DID NOT exist. Note how he stands and how Duane stands - try to stand that way your self if U are right handed - doesn't work. Works only if you are left handed. The photo of the Marvin second from the left in the group is DUANE L. WEBER and so it the picture of the other guy. IF U think these 2 guys are NOT one and the same in the 2 Camion books - do the searches and pay the buck yourself and find the families. ONE name never existed and the other name was a man who was a jumper - but he was NEVER in CA. or Camino. Carl Unruh was a FRIEND of Duane's and Duane told me about him. Everywhere he went his guitar went with him. THREE of the guys in the photo ended up at Mt. HOOD - and Duane evidently followed them. Duane was in the DALLES and worked as a dishwasher in bar. He swept out a shoe store. THESE guys used to go to a place in WA - to a bar in Goldendale. I spent 2 days there going thru the museum and talking to people. They used to have a rodeo there...DUANE HAD TOLD ME ABOUT THE RODEO. The bar was no longer there - I talked to many of the old timers there. It is inhumane to put me thru all of this - over and over and u don't look back. I didn't spend 5 K on a trip I could not afford in order to go to these places and talk to the people. GO back to the posts about my trip in 2010 U guy are KILLING ME - literally with YOUR cruelty! Right NOW I am CRYING my heart out and I cannot see the screen! I inhaled a lot of smoke from a BON FIRE the neighbors - the fire dept put a stop to it, but I was asleep on the couch with my sliding door open about 18 inchs because the weather was nice and the allergies down. I was awaken coughing and gasping for air - I just started to feel decent a couple of days ago and NOW this CRAP! AMAZING how NICE some of U can be in emails extracting information from me and then go on the THREAD and ATTACK me and treat me like someone in a jail or in a court of law -like I am some kind of criminal. Meyer U extracted the information U wanted and so have others, yet you just attack and cause me to have to repost things I posted yrs ago. I SHOULD not have to tell these things over and over and be attacked over and over! Duane was NOT lieing to me and I have tried my best to tell and show the things I knew. At least yrs ago when I went thru this the individuals WHERE MUCH KINDER. Now the individual in this thread are younger and very agressive - they just want to stir up things - things I worked for YRS to find and have discussed in detail in the past. I am going to come back and post some pictures and then U GUYS can find someone else to harass to death. NO NEED for me to be put thru this kind of treatment - NONE what SO ever. If you GUYS want to create a FANTASY regarding Cooper then have at it. Those who put their hearts and souls and their lives and their money and their creditability out there - will stop coming here to post or to seek information. This site received so much exposure that NOW we are getting NOTHING but creeps seeking to make a name for themselves or just like to tantalize and torture other posters. You come to the site - contact me and befriend me privately and then you just start making garbage out of all of the hard work a lot of people put into this site...and into the Cooper investigation - NOT just me! Even Robert 99 took Kaye's deposition and use his words which are NOT what Kaye said at all. NO WONDER GEORGER just babbles - the spooks & trolls have taken over the thread and turned it into one of those - sites that are mean and not nice at all...NOT some place I want to be. I had an offer to go public and right now I think I shoud DO IT. The fiction has to stop. This was an informative site and now it is dominated by trolls. Trolls who only want to replace facts with fiction. Trolls who enjoy torturing people and that is their only reason for being here - they are not interested in the truths - but myths and being cruel to others. Trolls take the facts and scramble them so badly NO one will EVER know the truths and the facts get lost in the garbage. Kaye's facts as Robert99 stated are now buried in muck. Robert 99 chose to turn Kaye's words around - and his interpretation is NOT what Kaye stated. AT least he put Kaye statement first and them made his interpertation belown it. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Thank You. The CPS site photo is fuzzy and I will attach a photos of DUANE as a young man. I had never seen a picture of Duane as a young man until the brother and sister sent them to me. I had NO idea WHAT Duane looked like as a young man until that time. That CPS camp also took in WAYWARD young men and this was arranged by friends of the family. Trying to reform him to a normal way of life...the CPS camps had other young men who had committed worse crimes than Weber did. A humanitarian within the McNeil System arranged special accomodation for young men who had some minor problems, but not dangerous. ONE will note the FBI only states that WEBER PASSED thru McNeil, but was NOT a resident. THIS came out of the mouth of the FBI agent if record in 2000. The file shows 6 months (a file the FBI could NOT find, but that JO Weber did and had it in her hand when she confronted the FBI in March of 2000). Duane's age within the system listed him being 4 yrs older than he actually was. This is also NOTED on the only thing they were able to find on WEBER in the McNEIL files. I have guys I graduated with I had not seen until they were in their sixties and I did not recognize them - I had to ASK who they were! They were at the reunion - so I knew I had to have know them - but, I did NOT recognize them. One's name was Stacie and I do not remember the other ones name. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Jo Stated: Photo recognitions with Duane's navy pic - indicates one of the men is possibly Duane L. Weber and not either of the names provided by the book the pic was in. ONE name never existed and the other's family said their uncle was NEVER in Camino or CA. __________________________________________________ Meyer Louie stated: Vague recollections and fuzzy memories.... here we go again, Jo. I'm not sure what that accomplishes, and frankly, I find it frustrating. You can't even identify your own Duane (or John) in the picture you posted. If you can't, then is it reasonable to expect that others here can? I don't think that's a reasonable expectation, Jo. JO SHOUTS - go back and look at all of the Camino shot and the post from way back. WHY do I have to redo these for those who REFUSE to read back. I was NOT confusing and I had ALL of the paper work in front of me back then. NOW there is TOO MUCH for me to go back. THE names of the guys are listed on the CPS site (I don't know it any more). EXCUSE ME SIR: U go back and LOOK them UP yourself. WHY exhaust my last bit of energy to REPEAT THE SAME INFORMATION I GAVE A LONG TIME AGO AND IN MUCH DETAIL! Duane was 60 plus when he showed me the photo in a book and I HAD never see a picture if Duane as a younger MAN! NOW do U GET it? The story about the book is in this thread and so is my reseach in trying to find the origin of the book and finding the men in the picture. One of the guys was given 2 different namea on the CPS site. JUST because I do NOT accommodate newbies who just refuse to look back DOES NOT mean I do NOT know which one I think was Weber. WHAT is unreasonable is people like You who EXPECT me to repeat posts from yrs ago when we explored this on this thread. WHAT am I supposed to be - A HUMAN COMPUTER SLAVE who can pull up my memory and research on demand? THE 2ed one from the left is Duane Weber - but 2 other names where given on the site. I can't prove it was DUANE, but the photo recognition used his navy pic and this and that is what it came up with! Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Robert the most direct question you ever asked me before. I will try to give a simple answer. Yes, Duane did mention smokejumpers when he showed me a picture of a bunch of guys in front of plane - they had on chutes, but NOT all of them had on chutes and some you could not make out. He didn't tell me he was a smokejumper but said he was in the picture - if he was in the picture he had something to do with them. A spotter, a packer - he did tell me about the Flying Johnsons, but back then I didn't have a clue what he was talking about. This was the same time he showed me a picture of a woman near a plane and said he knew her. I assumed she was a pilot or a friend of the man who the plane belonged to or perhaps the plane belonged to her father - I don't know. Can't remember if the source of the pictures - old photos - but I do not remember the medium. Book, magazine or another book. He mentioned a photographer, but don't know if he said the name...told me had been a helper. I guess setting things up. The man evidently was well known for his photography, but I do NOT recall a name or if Duane said a name. I have search N.W. photos and tried to see if I could find any of the photos he showed me - have no idea where they came from or what happened to them. My memory is so fuzzy on this part that I am unable to remember the time frame and why I was not more curious. It could have been while we were in Alabama in 1987 - because that is where My mind wants to go. Why AL I don't know. He was very mysterious about something at that time. This is about the time I found the envelope taped under the desk and he walked in on me. I just told him I was picking up a lead I dropped while putting them away. Which really was true - because I would NOT have seen it had I not picked up the lead. The next day I went to find the envelope taped to the back of the desk and it was GONE. When we moved to AL in 1987 he went ahead of me had the travel trailer and one of the dogs. We had sold our home in VA. I flew down to help find a rental - and flew with the other dog in a crate, but she was crying and I pulled her out and put her under my jacket (she was only 3 lbs). What he did in AL before I got there with the furniture a month or so later - I don't know. We were NOT too far from Nebraska and maybe he made trip up there to pick up a few things. Could have done it easily and his John Collins ID was still active at that time. In Va in 1984 he was so obsessed with being responsible for someone dieing. Drunk and rambling about getting killed because he tried to do what he did. Even DRUNK he was careful of his words.Of course now I know what he was talking about, but back then I didn't have a DAMN CLUE! I tried to give a simple answer, but as usual if is a maze of memories. I guess I have to let the memories flow as they come. Each time I have to answer a question like this - and this one was a first. I was the QUESTION and how YOU worded it that started the memory cycle. Blevin when YOU were at a location on one of your trips - I QUIZED you and wrote you about making a stop for me at a musuem, but you didn't. I wanted pictures or copies of what was in that museum - it was a smoke jumper museum. I think the picture I saw is IN that MUSUEM - for some reason this is just burning at me....Duane talked about a camp in that area and then I found the Spokane record and then I found Harris was in Spokane and the same age as Duane. Then all the memories of Duane's conversation about Coure d alene and Spokane and he could NEVER go back. A boy and indian reservation he didn't say the name of the boy then but later that same day he said the name but I never connected it with the BOY. Now I think the BOY and the name go together, but I have found NO trace or history of that man - like Duane he went POOF! Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

PERHAPS Cooper was NOT a jumper, but the WORLD GREATEST JOCK CARRIER could also have been a SPOTTER! Need someone with an EAGLE EYE - and DUANE was very good regarding distance and spotting things VERY FAR way. He was a crack shot with a pistol and a rife! ONE time Duane showed me a picture it was of a group of guys infront of a plane. Duane said he was in that picture. I thought it was a joke! The picture if I am correct was of the Johnson Guys, but there was NO detail in the pic. This was around 1984...when he made this comment. He claimed to have know the guys in the attached picture around that same time. Photo recognitions with Duane's navy pic - indicates one of the men is possibly Duane L. Weber and not either of the names provided by the book the pic was in. ONE name never existed and the other's family said their uncle was NEVER in Camino or CA. __________________________________________________ Vague recollections and fuzzy memories.... here we go again, Jo. I'm not sure what that accomplishes, and frankly, I find it frustrating. You can't even identify your own Duane (or John) in the picture you posted. If you can't, then is it reasonable to expect that others here can? I don't think that's a reasonable expectation, Jo. Give us something solid and verifiable -- something tangible to go on. What do you actually know, and what do you actually have in hand? Why not start from that? All of the vague, fuzzy, distant recollections of things that may have happened or not -- well, that's been going nowhere fast, and for a long time. You keep doing what's you always done, you keep getting what you've always got. MeyerLouie The picture of guys infront of a plane I saw only that one time. I have seen similar photos but they were not exactly right. The Camino picture has been discussed before and in detail. The picture was taken in the Placerville area of CA. Duane showed me this picture in 1984 - it was in a book. He told me he knew the guys in the photo and at the time I thought one of them looked like Duane, but remember in 1984 I had NEVER seen a photo of DUANE WEBER as a young man. He was born in 1924 and we married in 1978. He had NO photos of himself - NONE other than a few shots with the recent exwife at a convention. The Camion picture I saw in 1984 approx when he brought home a old tattered book about Camino. I never saw the front of the book but the pictures I remember is the one that I later found on line regarding Camino. The truck was prominent in the photo in the book and not exactly as the one that was on a site about these guys at Camino. Duane told me he knew the guys and at one time there was a picture of himself in the book but someone had torn it out. Of course he was showing me a pic of himself, but he didn't want to let me know that. I found the names of the guys in the photos and the one that was short was the one he talked about wearing his boots and carrying his guitar everywhere with him Carl Unruh. He told me that 3 of the guys went to Mt. Hood. The guy the photo id says was Duane Weber - there were 2 pics on the site and two different name for the same guy. Duane's sister and brother had told me the family tried to get some help for Duane and he was in a camp in Placerville and he was in WA. THE FBI did NOT even question the sister - she had had a heart attack and the brother had NOT see Duane since the 1957 when he took a baseball bat and ordered Duane out of him mothers home. I have a letter the brother wrote me giving me what details he knew about Duane. Back to the Camino pic. TWO different names were given for the same guy. I spent lots of money tracking these guys - one of the names NEVER EXISTED or he was still alive when I did the SS search. THE other name I found 3 and chased all three down. The only name that was dead on was a man who really did exists - but the family told me the man in the pic was not their uncle and he was never at Camino. If the FBI thinks they can do a better job - have at it. CARR would NOT life ONE finger for me on this. A man at his own expense went into the Placerville area and all of the places Duane talked about. He found the address Duane had mentioned. Because Duane mentioned the town and the address- it stuck with me. I now after all of these yrs and with my age cannot remember it, but I posted about it in DETAIL in this thread when it was all still within in my memory. I am starting to loose some details in the memory and some words. Why this thread is so important - I told the story as the research was happening, but NO one cared. He tried to find the book that had the photos in it, but we never found it. It was obviously a local thing and with limited editions - just an area thing. He only had the 2 photos - that the site had on it. I had seen both of those photo before...in a book Duane showed me. I never knew what happened to that book and he never allowed me to see anymore than the pages he showed me. Then POOF! All of the things he told me about those guys - I found was actually true - other than one of the guys never existed except for to different names given. The photo of what I believe was a group of the Johnson boys - I never found - I found similar photos but not the exact one. I wasn't sure it was the Johnson boys, but I thinks so - because at the time he showed me a picture of a woman sitting on or infront of a plane and told me he used to know her. I thought I found her one time and her brother was a smokejumper but not the right person. I forget the name now. Most of this I posted when it was fresh. The family knew he went to WA and that he was NOT in McNeal because a family member or friend intervened....the family was well connected in Huntington beach and that part of CA. I posted a family pic I acquired after Duane died - the one made in CA. when Duane was only about 10 per the age of the sister and the brother. As young men Duane and his brother looked very much alike. IN that old photo the brother was about 22 and it was made in CA.he looked similar to the way Duane looked yrs later. I have questioned and asked before if anyone knew if around 1934/1936 if there was an airshow in CA...because at that time the family was living in OHIO. The father had CA connections as did his brother Lyman Van Buren Weber which the brother did not tell me about nor the sister. Lyman was older than Duane's father and they were brothers. Lyman worked for SHERWIN WILLIAMS and was a chemist and who helped developer the CHEMICAL WARFARE for WW1. He was called out again when the balloons landes in WA....and did that as Civil Service. This is the same time period Duane was in WA. I am tired of telling this and NEVER being heard and NO ONE even verifying the information. It is there in the genealogy. I am NOT making any of this up. U JERKS told me there was NO way the family was involved in the Boeing Paint JOB - well they were. I won't go into all of this - I posted it in DETAIL while all of the papers where in my hands. I even asked if anyone was able to find the guest list for the Boeing introduction. You will find a member of DUane's family was there! I hurt to bad to continue to try to tell a bunch of guys who do not really care - they just want something to debate and scramble about. READ back into my post - it is in this thread. I made as much public as possible in this thread - but it is a waste of time with the limited exposure I have here. I am becoming too disconnected in my thinking to continue this much longer. I tried to tell - I tried to tell his story and I did NOT know he had actually told me about his own lilfe in the 3rd Party. It was the Treasure Island article that made everything crystal clear and then all of the pieces fell together. I understood he had told me about his life in the 3rd person because of who and what I am he could NOT tell me about his life any other way. The family and the criminal records and all the things he told me - it was all there! Even then in 1958 - the investigators found his history very convoluted - in 1958 - WHY? THen in 1962 Duane WEBER was off the charts and he was NOT in prison - but working for a man out of TEXAS and this is when ALL of the spooky stuff happend and all of the SECRET stuff. I met the MAN behind it all - no not Duane, but the MAN behind other things. Things that I can't prove but I know. OH HELL - no one cares but me! NO ONE. I have been threatened more than ONE time since I started to explore Duane's past. THE FBI didn't think THAT WAS IMPORTANT enough to even check out!. Was it because they were TOLD NOT to or they just didn't really have to? WHY threaten a widow very early on when she asked about JOHN COLLINS and those yrs 1962 to 1968 - WHAT the HELL Was WEBER involved in? Well, I finally figured it all out, but I can't prove it -and that is how they want it. I think if they thought I could prove it - I would already be dead. THat is NOT being paranoid I was threatened more than one time since 1996. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

How EARLY are U speaking of? By 1948 they were dropping cargo to the jumpers and forestry. Perhaps U need to READ up on the NICKLES! ROBERT, you actually think I am an idiot or you are deliberately TRYING to distort truths! How much are they paying U? Jo, Google "Smoke Jumper" and see what turns up. The Forest Service in the USA started using smoke jumpers in 1939. As I pointed out in my original post and repeatedly since then, equipment was parachuted to the smoke jumpers from the start. You really do need to start reading the posts that you later misquote. Robert99 U cannot keep up with WHO posted WHAT! U take credit for STATEMENTS I made. U do YOUR HISTORY research. There were smoke jumpers prior to Derry training them to use his chutes - which were designed to prevent the tangles in the trees and to allow them to release themselves. PLEASE stop trying to back step to cover up your own errors. What U did was take MY statement and used it as YOURS! JO, READ THE FOLLOWING WHEN YOU HAVE A CLEAR MIND AND CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE READING! Jo, You need to pay attention to what I posted. My original post was #42047 and I repeated that number in post #42056 where I told you to go back and read post #42047. In post #42047, I stated that smoke jumpers had used parachutes for dropping their equipment. They had been doing that since 1939 when the smoke jumpers were organized in the USA. By your own statement, you are not a "precise" poster. And you have indicated that the words in your posts are secondary to your intentions, whatever that means. IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO POST ONLY WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE DOING! Robert99 I READ THEM AND I REPOSTED THEM. U TOOK A STATEMENT I MADE AND FOR SOME REASON CLAIMED IT AS YOUR OWN. U DID NOT MAKE THE STATEMENT - I DID! THEN U ANSWER MY POST USING MY OWN STATEMENT AS YOUR STATEMENT. U HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE - YOU BACK TRACK TO SAVE FACE RATHER THAN ADMIT U MADE A MISTAKE! Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

How EARLY are U speaking of? By 1948 they were dropping cargo to the jumpers and forestry. Perhaps U need to READ up on the NICKLES! ROBERT, you actually think I am an idiot or you are deliberately TRYING to distort truths! How much are they paying U? Jo, Google "Smoke Jumper" and see what turns up. The Forest Service in the USA started using smoke jumpers in 1939. As I pointed out in my original post and repeatedly since then, equipment was parachuted to the smoke jumpers from the start. You really do need to start reading the posts that you later misquote. Robert99 U cannot keep up with WHO posted WHAT! U take credit for STATEMENTS I made. U do YOUR HISTORY research. There were smoke jumpers prior to Derry training them to use his chutes - which were designed to prevent the tangles in the trees and to allow them to release themselves. PLEASE stop trying to back step to cover up your own errors. What U did was take MY statement and used it as YOURS! Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

U ROBERT used the WRONG POSTS. ANYONE going back can see WHO wrote what, but U made it sound LIKE U said it, but that is NOT what the posting state! WHEN u make a MISTAKE don't try to pass the BUCK! NOT on this thread! THERE WILL be someone there brilliant enough to CATCH what U do and HOW U took MY statement AS your statement! DO NOT critize others for what U yourself did! ADMIT u made a mistake and MOVE on! DO not take credit for the research of OTHERS and that includes myself! Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

ROBERT THEN POSTED IN 42056: THIS STATEMENT: "You can ignore Jo Weber's response above since she thinks Smoke Jumpers operated about like a US Army Airborne Division." JO WEBER THEN REPLIED: "ROBERT U ARE WRONG! Smokejumpers - did have equipment dropped with a separate chute - AND one was just quoted to U. Mann Gluch. Perhaps U need to READ the books I have read! Weber did NOT need to be a smokejumper - but in close association with jumpers and worked in the camps and with the forestry. U let too much trivia get in YOUR way! I am not a precise poster, but I do recall what I have read. Since this is a MUTE point U need to go back and read a couple of post I made above. Cooper is NOT about Smokejumpers or forestry or espionage or coverts. U dwelled too much on precise language - U need to look at all of the story. I have better things to do than look up books and post and recited them to U. As I tried to say before I am moving on and made some statements that only one person in this thread might even have a clue what the postings tonight are all about! If U do not read the clarity of my posting tonight then U sir have NOT a clue about this case nor Cooper nor the background of Duane L. Weber - aka Johnnie Collins. Johnnie and that damn peanut jar! I leave U with a riddle and all of the solutions - U figure them out, but U will probably not get it until the STORY is put right in front of U. Sorry, but I came here with mission tonight and it was not to argue with U or anyone else. Merrily to make statements about what I do know." Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

QuoteQuote Robert99 replies: Just exactly who was buying cargo parachutes in February 1945 other than the military? JO STATED: "ROBERT! Smoke jumper used cargo chutes to get their equipment to the ground OR to get supplies to the jumpers after they were on the ground - ALL of this is in a smoke jumper book! I expect this is why someone a while back questioned if there had been any fires in the area of the Amboy find. ONE of the few things that explain a cargo chute. Could also have been a training drop." ROBERT THEN CAME BACK WITH: "Jo, I doubt very much if the Smoke Jumpers needed a parachute that could handle 400 pounds. Remember that Smoke Jumpers were for jumping into remote areas with minimal equipment in order to fight the fire until more personnel could arrive by land. So Smoke Jumpers at the start of a fire would basically be few in numbers and using only tools that they could carry and use by hand. Of course, those tools were dropped in by small parachutes but they sure didn't weigh 400 pounds". ROBERT I broke it down to she said and he said. LET THE FORUM BE THE JUDGE OF WHAT U ACTUALLY SAID. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

PERHAPS Cooper was NOT a jumper, but the WORLD GREATEST JOCK CARRIER could also have been a SPOTTER! Need someone with an EAGLE EYE - and DUANE was very good regarding distance and spotting things VERY FAR way. He was a crack shot with a pistol and a rife! ONE time Duane showed me a picture it was of a group of guys infront of a plane. Duane said he was in that picture. I thought it was a joke! The picture if I am correct was of the Johnson Guys, but there was NO detail in the pic. This was around 1984...when he made this comment. He claimed to have know the guys in the attached picture around that same time. Photo recognitions with Duane's navy pic - indicates one of the men is possibly Duane L. Weber and not either of the names provided by the book the pic was in. ONE name never existed and the other's family said their uncle was NEVER in Camino or CA. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

How EARLY are U speaking of? By 1948 they were dropping cargo to the jumpers and forestry. Perhaps U need to READ up on the NICKLES! ROBERT, you actually think I am an idiot or you are deliberately TRYING to distort truths! How much are they paying U? Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Derry developed the chutes used by smokejumper and the first tests were done in CA very close to where Duane's parents lived. I am not talking about the actual tests with the smoke jumpers, but a strip in California that he used to test his product. There used to be a picture of Derry and a friend standing in an airfield. The jumper was on the ground...and a young man who resembled Weber was on the ground pulling the chute out. I saw this picture one TIME and never saw it again. I thought the pic was on the forum or in the smokejumper research, but I saw it that one time and could never find it again. I can visualize the pic in my mind, but I cannot produce it. Derry and his partner or friend are to the Right on the pic and they are standing. The jumper is on the ground and the boy was squated carefully pulling the chute out. This was the early developement days in California before he let the smokejumper use them. It could have been one of his prototypes in the developement stage. Where in my memory is this picture? I cannot put a time stamp on it or where I saw it. None of the sites on Forestry and smoke jumping have shown this photo. I do remember the picture was CA and pre 1945. Duane was in CA 1943 and then gone. He was found in Columbia and sent back to CA and sentence to McNeil in Jan of 1945. During the time 1942 to the end of 1944 - Duane was with family and running from the authorities. Some how in this mix he spent a couple of months at Camp Siebert, AL in 1943 in the ARMY no less. At that time the parents had moved to CA as I have a letter he wrote his mother. The family moved from Ohio to Ca while he was in the Navy 1942. As the family had friends of the family who help the obtain employment in CA with Sherwin William in Huntington Bch. The family did all they could to help this troubled young man and Derry was known to the family because of the father's background. Even Duane spoke of Derry, but of course I had NO idea who Derry was (I was 17 yrs younger than Weber). I would not meet any of Weber's family until several yrs after his death. I will never be able to unravel his past - and NO one cares but me! Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber