maadmax

You must be confused. Neither of your choices are valid. There is no evidence of any kind of god at all. Look at the evidence then draw a conclusion. Evolution is based on the evidence. There is no god involved, because there is no evidence of one. You seem to be stuck on this god thing. You seem to think there must be a god of some form.Quote How can you be so stuck on evolution as the explanation for how everything came into existence. Agreed evolution as a force has been in play for approximately 3.5 billion years, shaping life on this planet. It is just a process, totally reliant on other physical and chemical principles to even occur. How about the natural laws, matter, & energy, have they and will they always exist eternally? Since matter and energy can interchange but not be created or destroyed, how did the limited cognizant state we enjoy develop in this remote isolated place? If anything is possible in the world of evolution and chance occurrence then ,there must have been a supermassive cognizant state before we came along. A singularity of matter and energy is theorized and accepted, how can you be so certain that a singularity of awareness and wisdom didn't also exist. It is pretty obvious that we are the product of both. ...

Quote***Just as there isn't one iota of evidence for his non-existence. That is still the silliest excuse used to defend the possible existence of gods. It's about as illogical as one can get.Quote Well, one thing is logical. We have one of two choices: Choice #1 natural law god of chance occurrence - omnipotent, omnipresent, immutable, unconscious , eternal, unconcerned, un-involved. Choice #2 Creator God of the universe - omnipotent omnipresent, immutable, Self-aware, eternal, concerned, involved. There is no evidence that either exists or doesn't exist. One thing is for sure, one of them exists. ...

Why is it rubbish? First off your value is intrinsic. You as an individual have great value whether or not you choose to utilize your innate gifts. Choosing to fulfill the destiny God has laid out before you returns the blessing of your creation and gives Him the glory. ...

--So im sorry god/gods if you want my tick in the box then stop being so bloody difficult to believe in, SO ME THE MONEY. Believe me, I wished things worked as simply as you request. But for the present time, if you wish to know God , you must know Him in spirit. And of course, it is up to you to acknowledge your spirit or not. ...

--What I was taught god is everywhere at all times. You were taught correctly! I see Him in all things, everywhere, constantly. But if you are still struggling with whether He exists or not, you need to start at the beginning. --There are plenty of those billboards, mailbox junkmail, crazy dudes downtown wearin end of world signs. True, but sorry I can't speak for them. --I comprehend, its just my inward gaze doesn't see a presense. I think that would scare the shit outta me. Maybe that explains why there are atheists. --I know myself very well. My "spirit" ? You mean my mind? Here is where I will get a vague response. quoteing bible passages, that I am lost I am not sure what you mean, but if you are lost please spend the effort not to stay that way. --number of people that believe isn't proof. Most true. But as you must have guessed by now, a relationship with God is personal experience. For us, what we have experienced is proof enough. ...

I love different opinions. It makes me question what I think I know or don't know. It's the way my small mind works. show me proof. I agree, the varying viewpoints people conceive to explain reality is VERY interesting. Proof for God is easy if you look where He manifests Himself. For what ever reason, finding the Spirit of God will not be accomplished by searching for outward signs. But His presence and love is easy to comprehend if you turn your gaze inward. It you take the time to know yourself, your spirit will definitely point the way to God. As I and many others can attest. " Not in a mighty hurricane, not is a destructive earthquake, nor in the roaring fire, But the Word of God came in a still small quiet voice" I Kings ...

--So if we were in The Matrix you would be Agent Smith ... Rubbish! ...

Please don't be offended, but in my opinion that's rather narrow minded thinking. You are implying that our lives are somehow meaningless without the existence of a Deity. That's just not the case: there are many, many people who lead rich and emotionally fulfilling lives without any such belief. Personally, I have a lot of meaning in my life, and I get along just fine without a belief in any form of Deity. The meaning I do find, however, is meaning that I chose for myself. Or perhaps you are implying that without some sort of life after death, our lives are meaningless. That's a different issue, but again, I don't think it holds water. We can be activly be engaged in the world, help our fellow human beings, and lead fulfilling lives without the need for some aspect of us to some how float on.... Point accepted. In the best and worst of circumstances, the brief time we have on this earth is magical and wonderful. But in my view this is only the beginning. The complexity and drama all point to a larger purpose. We all make our way through a confusing array of choices the best we can. Good luck on the path you choose. ...

So what you are saying here is that the imagined benefits of a mythology are better then reality? "supernaturally complete"?? What you have is imagined benefits. The reason these are imagined is because you are the only one that experiences them. You can't show them to anyone else. No one else can see what you are imagining. There are no real world result from your spirtual "needs" being fulfilled. Prayer is not anything more then wishful thinking. There is no advantage to believing in a deity. Your view point is certainly one way of looking at the evidence for God. But as far as I am concerned, I will gladly be a fool for God, than an intellectual with a closed mind. ...

one day god will be like "Jesus?...who?.. I'm not sure who you talkin about. Buudda's my boy". [.:|] Good thoughts. Please note that I do not support or condone religion. I see religion as mans abortive attempt to help God out in communicating His Word. Religious contribution to spiritual truth, apart from the inspired original writing, has been very destructive and confusing. Everyone should have the right to seek God as He reveals Himself to them.

--The lack of evidence that any deity exists disqualifys any God from being a force in the universe. Your belief in your chosen mythology does not mean it's true. If you stopped and used reason and not emotions to look at religion or the idea of god you will find that their is nothing to back either. Maybe so. On a strictly objective perspective, the only other game in town is so depressing and pointless, that all I can ask is, who in their right mind would want to live like that? On another basis, the fulfillment of my spiritual and physical needs are so supernaturally complete over time, that I have my proof. Sorry for you. But take heart, Jesus is always standing at the door of your consciousness and knocking. ...

Well, I worry that the losses resulting from the gate drive of synchronous rectifiers at frequencies above 10MHz far outweighs the efficiency gains you get by eliminating most of the forward drop of diodes. Means that wireless power systems operating at higher frequencies have a built in efficiency limit. Well lucky enough for me, ignorance is bliss, so I will gladly leave the dilemma for you to figure out. ...

Unique sistuation? There are tens of millions of people who do not have safe water to drink, food to eat or basic medicine. In the time it takes to read this post, hundreds of children in the third world will die a death we can not even imagine. I think the last thing on a starving child or thier parents mind at this time is finding your god. You are right of course, none of us get out of here alive, and some of us will experience unimaginalbe pain when we die. That fact alone does not disqualilfy God from being a force in the universe. Suffering and death is a sad part of our reality, but it can be force for good. On an evolutionary basis, it selects for more fit individuals who can better enjoy their environment and leave more offspring. On a spiritual basis it removes the obstacle of pride and allows for a clearer view of reality. For what ever reason suffering is a part of life. Suffering has been the necessary catalyst for many to find God. I pray that you won't have to learn that lesson the hard way. ...

People can worry about anything. Trust me on this. I believe you. What has been worrying you lately?

Nonsense. You can't worry about a relationship with a fictional being. Since you seem to have figured out the height , depth, breadth and scope of all that is real and imagined, maybe you should run for the position of god in the next election. It would be interesting to see how many votes you would get. ...

This is all good and well to you who has been exposed to religion/Christianity. What about the millions of starving people in 3rd world countries who have never heard of your or any god, cant read so will have no idea what is said in the bible. How do they "find" God???????? With out knowning them or their unique situation, I can't comment on your question. It is my belief that God reaches out in some way to every living human being. ...

Then how can you explain suffering? Good question! One I have thought about myself many times. And it appears that suffering is here to stay, for the foreseeable future anyway. Looking back at my own life, it was during the times of the most intense suffering that my awareness and relationship with God dramatically increased. Knowing what I know now, I would gladly relive those periods and I am thankful for them. I believe all things work together for good when you love and trust in God. If God is not a part of your life then all you can hope to gain from suffering is more agony and confusion. ...

It does indeed. It requires the interplay of neurotransmitters, electrical potentials and retrainable synapses all based upon a substrate onto which the basics (body awareness, instincts, reflexes and pattern recognition) have already been programmed. However, it does not require anything "undescribable." We discover more about the brain every day that explains another facet of how we perceive and react to the world. You provide a good description of how we interface with the physical world. But, focusing only on the physical mechanism of actions is like observing the motion of a car without any consideration of the driver's will who is steering that car. ...

--Feelings and self awareness is not the same as a spirit. I call those things "feelings and self awareness". I think, and have reasonable evidence to support, that these things are caused by chemicals secreted by our bodies in response in environmental stimuli. You are claiming that our feelings and emotions are a product of a supernatural, invisible, undetectable force that you call a spiritQuote Neurotransmitters, brain anatomy and overall health can affect the thoughts we think. I think it takes something much more to incorporate the input of our senses and create a personal reality, like we all do. Bodily fluids or chemicals can't create awareness or understanding. That is a metaphysical trait, and requires a metaphysical explanation. And yes, so far that part of our intellect has been undetectable. But its presence is easy to observe

So because it can't be explained, you think it's because of god? Medical science does a very good job of identifying when an organisms is alive and when it is not. But it is totally incapable of explaining what leaves the body when life is no longer present. Life may not be proof of God, but as far as I am concerned it lends strong support for the existence of a spirit that when housed in a functional body, produces life. ...

I am a doctor, and although your analogy is good for electronic equipment, it does not cross over and explain how the neurological system functions. ...

I agree - although animals other than man exhibit it as well. No argument here. Which is why I consider all life precious and sacred. I have observed many animals operating on a higher moral plane than members of our own species. It appears that our species is unique, in that we can make judgements between moral absolutes, good and evil. Some of us choose well, other do not. ...

In any event, we know that we can produce a multitude of feelings and reactions just by stimulating the brain with the right chemicals in the right area. You can even recreate the feeling that many claim as being "surrounded by the holy spirit". I'll spare you the task above and go ahead and say that all evidence so far has shown that we are indeed, a collection of biological parts. And when you die, you rot in the ground. End of story. Yes, and the beginning of a new story that will never end. If cerebral function was that simple then why can't a brain supplied with and external electrical energy source and an artificial circulatory system function and recall all of those fond memories you speak of once the spirit has left the body, i.e. died? ...

Please prove that there is a "spirit". It is pretty obvious, to even the casual observer, that we are more than just a collections of biological parts and subparts. Self-consciousness is the crowning jewel of the spirit and an observable proof of the human spirit. The Copenhagen interpretation of science is important but limiting. Just because something can't be measured does not limit its existence. ...

--"God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good." God purposefully designed a system that ensures the suffering and death of all his creatures, parasite and host, predator and prey. A: Maybe your idealized vision of a "good" earth is not the vision God had in mind. It doesn't take much extrapolation to see how your vision wouldn't work anyway. ----- --"In the beginning" 1:1 When was the universe created? A: 13.75 BILLION YEARS AGO, excluding possible effects of time dilation during the early inflation phase. ___________________________________________ I applaud the effort you put into your post. What was its purpose? Bible passages can be confusing, even comical if looked at one way, and profoundly meaningful if looked at in a different way. The Bible only makes sense to those who first understand the needs of their spirit . If you have never taken the time to know the shortcomings within yourself, the Bible will of course sound foolish. ...