falxori

what would you say about this: Romanian oil rig attacked by Iran or is it only israel who is guilty by default until proven otherwise? "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

that's weak... especially when all of Lebanon was full of international media and reporters (often given orders by Hezbollah personnel on what to film). "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

obviously it doesn't describe what happened the same day, but it does illustrate the reality in which you have Hezbollah fighters in and arround the UN outpost. if you insist on blaming Israel nothing will change your mind so its useless. Israel has nothing to gain from destroying a UN outpost. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

no, the source is the actual UN officer who got killed there in an email sent a few days before the incident. he wrote that although Israeli shells have fallen in their area "This has not been deliberate targeting, but rather due to tactical necessity." due to the fact that hezbollah fighters are all over the place. and there is more than one video showing rocket launchers fire and then quickly hide inside villages and even homes. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

you assume Israel "wanted" to kill them which is not true. Israel has the right and even obligation to fire back when fired upon and if the ones firing on it hide in a civilian home or in a UN structure than its their problem (and in case you don't know, there are rules against that). according to you, firing from within a village makes you immune. sorry but it doesn't work like that, and the blood of civilians in that case is on your hands. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

that's one of the outcomes of UNIFIL being unable or unwanting to stop Hezbollah (Hezbollah using them as shields, that is), as described by the UMIFIL officer who was killed there. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

the modern state of Israel was created in the manner in which it was created because one side did not accept the peaceful offer, and it wasn't israel. ok then if we both have a valid claim here the solution is to divide the land between the two. and until the palestinians are willing to settle for less then 100%, there will be no peace. yes, but they have an automatic head start of 30%, and many others who follow the popular vote. first of all, when you quote, quote the right words and read again what i wrote. i said that i'm willing to give up parts of Israel (including where my family home was until 1936) for peace. and yes, i can consider all of Israel to be ours, but still be willing to recognize the reality that there is another nation here. once again you are wrong. after the pull out there was not even a single Israeli (civilian or soldier) in Gaza, nor on the border between Gaza and Egypt (and we'll hear about that when more advanced missiles start flying out of there too...) what "daily aggressive military posturing" ? and beside, picking a fight is shooting across the border or crossing it like Hezbollah did, not "posturing", whatever that has to do with anything... no, it simply what happened. I don't see how you can deny that. then stop. or explain how Israel is "provoking" anyone (beside existing) once again... Israel has pulled out of lebanon and Gaza. was there peace and quiet afterwards? hell no. and how about the syrians "show some good will" and stop funding terror, arming hezbollah and hosting pretty much all of the terrorist organizations' HQs? how about Hamas uses Gaza after there is no Israeli there to show they can live peacefully and start building a state instead of lunching hundreds of missiles into Israel? how about the Lebanese government pulling its thumb out of its ass and take over their own land in southern lebanon instead of allowing the Iranians to control it through Hezbollah? it seems that whenever Israel does something for "good will" it get slapped in the face. you mean like Hezbollah's announcements that it will remain in southern lebanon and will not give up its weapons (which is the base of the cease fire)? the international force HAS to be strong enough and with a mandate to stop Hezbollah, unlike the current UNIFIL which is useless. then once again, you know nothing about what Israelis think. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

it doesn't make what they are showing any less true. especially since rueters admitted it... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

even with the 100% support 1701 got the UN can't come up with the international force decided upon. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

how do you come up with all of this crap? If you consider Israel's very existance a "hostile takeover" then the rest of the discussion is useless. if you don't even recognize Israelis right to live here then all of the other details doesn't matter. do you think Israel should cease to exist or do you accept that Israelis too have a valid claim in this land? exactly why the UN will never be fair to Israel. so let me get this straight, if the UN, by majority decides something, just because its a majority , its acceptable? even the most extreme democracy has balances. lucky for the UN, the US veto is one of them. I'm sure Israel's existance is the reason, i'm just not willing to pack my things and leave. I am willing to give up a lot of what i could consider mine for the chance of peace. Israel did it in 1948 and got invaded. Israel did it with egypt. Israel did it with Jordan. Israel tried to did it with the PA and got loads of terrorism in exchange. first of all I don't see Israel as the aggressor and I don't see the UN working so hard on other, more violent conflicts on this planet. how? we pulled out of Gaza and got missiles in return we pulled out of lebanon and got Hezollah with 15,000 rockets picking up fights. if i'm not mistaked, it wasn't israel who crossed the border and started this war. you keep saying that but its nothing more of empty words. what "lands" would that be? thry have before. although the US is helping Israel I do not want american soldiers to come fight my wars and as for the UN, it seems it can't even set up the "peace keeping" force meant to go into lebanon, now that france decided to send 200 troops instead of 4000 I don't really care what you consider Israel. I live here and I know how much we value peace. but we also value our right to live here. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

very true, and here is the reasons why... 21 members of the UN are Arab countries, and at least 52 members represent Islamic countries. starting with a few simple facts: -The Arab nations are represented by 21 separate countries, israel is 1. -Of the 189 member nations , 188 may be elected to serve on the powerful Security Council, guess who can't.... and while (valid for mid 03): -Head of Human Rights commission: Lybia -Head of Disarmament: Iraq (recently) -a member if the security council : Syria the UN seems like a joke... here are some statistics from 1946-1990: Security Council: 175 Total Resolutions 74 Neutral 4 Against the perceived interests of an Arab state or body 97 Against Israel General Assembly: Cumulative Number of Votes cast with/for Israel: 7,938. Cumulative Number of Votes cast against Israel: 55,642 How about we take a look at the Human rights commission (was headed by lybia in 2003..) *Israel has been the only state subject to an entire agenda item every year. *The Commission on Human Rights has spent more time on Israel than any other country. The Commission spent two days criticizing Israel and less than two hours on AIDS *While 11 percent of its total substantive meeting has been on Israel alone, 24 percent of its time has been spent on all other UN states combined. *27 percent of its country- specific resolutions critical of a state have been on Israel alone. The real double standards? No resolution in the history of the commission has ever been passed on states such as Syria, China, Saudi Arabia or Zimbabwe. other UN contributions: 1956: Permitted Nasser's nationalization of the Suez Canal 1967: Secretary-General U Thant withdrew UN peace- keeping forces from Gaza 1974: Invited Terrorist Yasser Arafat to address the General Assembly (long before the Oslo process started) 1975: Adopted the infamous resolution equating Zionism with racism 2000: UNIFIL obstructed investigation of Hezbollah kidnapping of Israeli soldiers 2001: Sponsored the anti-Israel World Conference on Racism in Durban, South Africa --------------------------------------------- "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

first of all the cease fire is a limited cease fire and Israel can still operate in a limited way when needed. but if you insist on "breaking the cease fire" how about the morters fired by Hezbollah one day after the cease fire took place? or better yet, how about the decleration of Hezbollah that it will not disarm or move away from the border (and the Lebanese government agreement to it) which was the initial condition for the cease fire? "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

to the best of my knowledge, thats not true. Illegal by what law? the settlements in gaza were very legal and when Israel decided to pull out of gaza the population who was forced to leave was compensated by the government. you are using false and irrelevant "facts" to prove a point which is (at best) not valid. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

i start the clock with the unprovoked attack after Israel has fullfilled every UN resolution concerning lebanon. show me what Israel has done "first" to induce Hezbollah's attack? you say it was "premeditated" because Israel had plans about it? every responsible country has plans in the drawer for many scenarios. watching Hezbollah building up an arsenal of 15,000 rockets, theatening to use it is a good enough reason to have plans for war. and Israel's response was no disproportionate, it was meant to remove Hezbollah's threat not to revenge the loss of the soldiers. you can't hide behined the geneva conventions at the same time you are hiding behind civilians. the same international law states fighters should be clearly marked and not operate from civilian areas. you know very well that it would if none came out of it. who's land it is is debateable and Israel's claim over it is as valid (if not more) than others. just to remind you, Israel did not chose these wars and in wars land change ownership (as it since the dawn of man and even before). whether/when it will be given back to syria depends on the peace deal that will be achieved. what are you talking about? i don't know of any 30K/yr anyone is getting, but even if, what does it have to do with anything>? "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

you mean fighting back after we were attacked from this nation's teritory, hitting civilians while targeting the terrorists who shoot behind them and accidently blowing up a UN post that was swarming by Hezbollah fighters (as one of the UN observers on site reported) ? I have a feeling its more because of the automatic arab/muslim majority in the UN. that's the main reason Israel is on debate in the UN more than any other nation in the world. the US veto is actually saving the UN from becoming a complete joke. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

you got the uneditted version. this is the correct one... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

its not an "implied assertion" its fact. Israel has pulled out of lebanon more than 6 years ago and even the UN who is anything but pro israeli has recognized it. in the past 6 years Hezbollah with the aid of Iran and Syria has been arming itself to the teeth (shooting every now and then), the fact that they crossed into israel in an act of war is ,well, a fact. the same goes for Gaza, Israel has pulled out completely but rockets didn't stop flying out of there. the sheba farms was a part of syria, not lebanon and its future, much like the Golan will be determined in peace talks with syria (althoguh based on the Syrian militaristic speech a few days ago i'm not sure it will happen anytime soon) Hezbollah is using the Sheba farms as an excuse to justify its existance, if it wasn't that it would have been something else and beside, even if you insist that the sheba farms are lebanese, its status should be discussed with the lebanese governmrnt, not Hezbollah. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

the israeli-lebanese border is very well defined. the israeli-Gaza border is very well defined the border between israel and the west bank is yet to be defined (hopefully by a peact treaty) but there are already parts which are officially under PA control which was the first step to a complete peace treaty (at least until it broke down in 2000. now since this threat is mainly about lebanon and some about Gaza, what's exactly is your problem with what i've said? "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

agreed, but I don't think that was the meaning. the article didn't say ALL muslims are, it said "The worst Jew-haters, the most avid murderers of Jews in the modern world are Muslims." which is true if you don't count the nazis in. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

in my opinion, yes. sadly, our neighbours are not UK born muslims but arabs who were raised with textbooks filled with hate. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

the difference is what is considered a valid proof. the fact that the proving party is/isn't palestinian/israeli/3rd party doesn't make their proof automatically valid/invalid. the incident on the beach is unclear (although since that area was used to fire rockets, it doesn't really matter) but i can think of a few examples from the top of my head that were proven to be false. - the A-dura kid- very tragic but it WAS proven that he couldn't have been shot by Israelis (not that it matters since he's remembered as if he was) - the Jenin "masacre" - where initial reports were of hundreds of dead civilians and only later it turned out to be 30 something and most were armed terrorists hididng in civilian houses - Qana - only 2 weeks ago, the initial reports were of 52 civilians and only later (after a red cross check) were revised to 28. - the photoshopped pictures from lebanon - i don't think you can prove something any more than this... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

that's because you were brought up in the UK and not in the mid-east. if you take a look at PA official school text books you'll see what the writer means. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

exactly. an attack from one country's teritory on another country's teritory is an attack of the 1st country on the other. so Israel had every right to attack any part of lebanon since the attack on it came from lebanon (and its a lebanese problem if they can't control who is firing from their teritory). the fact that Israel did not attack the Lebanese army but mostly the Hezbollah directly is something to be said on its behalf "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

do you want a list of palestinian made up shows to the media that were only later (when the media lost interest) proven to be false? you can start with the A-dura kid, through the "jenin masacra" and all the way to the photoshopped pictures from lebanon... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

interesting article. although i do not agree with some of his suggestions, the "disproportionate" response he's refering to (on the opposite direction than usually meant) is often seen as weakness by Israel's enemies. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."