falxori

do yourself a favor and open an history book. the problems here and the division plans started long before the Nazis. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

a few notes about your maps... - the 1947 division plan was based on the population diversity at the time. do I have to remind you who accepted it and who started a war hoping to wipe the jewish community completely? if you start a war and lose, you lose. - I'm sure you will point out the changes in population percentage between 1947 and 1949. what you might forget to mention is that a big part of this change is due to the hundreds of thousands of jewish arabs who were kicked out of their homes and were forced to flee. these refugees are not different from the palestinians who chose to flee israel (thos who chose to stay became israeli citizens). i dont hear you asking all of the arab countries to give them their land and property back... - for most, it is understood that the solution will be 2 states close to the 1967 borders with border adjustments and land swaps. this is exactly where it was headed in 2000 before arafat blew up the deal. they were also close to an agreement in jerusalme (arab parts will be arabs and jewish parts will be israeli) but then Arafat changed his mind and wanted the western wall too. and back to the thread's subject. I'm not suprised of whats going on in Gaza. the scene was set ever since Arafat refused to dismantle the terrorist groups and have a single armed force. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

and yet again you are ignoring the hundreds of missiles launched from Gaza at Israeli towns for no reason. the proposed maps suggest that some of the larger settlements closer to the border will remain in exchange for lands elsewhere, mostly near Gaza where land reserve are a problem. and as for your other claim, Israel has taken a part the settlements in Gaza (and some in the west bank) when it decided to pull out, so your conclusion is flawed. excellent point. oh wait, that's exactly what we did in Gaza. there is no one to talk to so we pulled out completely. but instead of showing the world that they can start building a nation they kept firing rockets and... well, you see whats going on there. first of all, thats not true. Israel supplies Gaza with fuel, food and other supplies. beside, they have a border with egypt, why not use it for commerce. and last thing, the PA "elected" government is led by Hamas, a sworn enemy that won't even honor signed agreements. does it sound logical to you that Israel will have an open border and allow supplies and money to be delivered to an entity who wishes to destroy it? the fact that Hamas was elected doesnt make it acceptable. it is still a terror organization that refuses to accept Israel's existance (and even the PA's as it seems now). if the palestinians want to elect Hamas as their leaders, they can live with it. Hitler was also "elected". once again, show me an example in history of a nation who is "helping" another nation "sell its fruit" while in a state of war. every time Israel has opened the border crossing there were attempts to blow it up. you can't have commerce when things blow up. P.S don't know if you've heard, 3 rockets were launched from Lebanon yesterday into a civilian town. why? can you think of a good reason? O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

sadly no. they are actually selling one of the two planes (selling the C208 and keeping the C208B) so capacity will go down too. still no "official" word from the DZ but after talking to several "insiders", the rumors are pretty solid... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

its a kind of a greeting in arabic like hello (literally "peace be with you") or something like that O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

never said it wasn't their right, and from a strict business point of view i can see the logic (more money, less risk of being shut down because of an accident, etc) but it doesn't make it less sad. especially when we don't have a lot of other options. the 2nd DZ is small and questionable in terms of safety and operations and the other option is going abroad. maybe someone will try to open a "community" DZ like the ones that exist in sweden (although i'm not sure exactly how things work up there) O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

the "rules of war" were written in a time were wars were fought between two nations and two armies and where every rocket had a return address. if you look at recent conflicts, AQ doesn't have a clear return address, terrorists operate from within civilian areas and often hurt their own civilians even more than the "targeted" enemy. the old "rules" of seperating military and civilians are simply not applicable O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

I think they have adopted 21st century standards while the rest of the world is still operating under 20th century's standards O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

it seems that our DZO and management has decided to change their business case and turn the DZ into a tandem factory. it basically means that normal skydivers are not really welcomed and will be able to jump only in order to fill any free seats on the load. this might be the end of a wonderful community in which i have found a lot of very good friends and looked forward to spending time with on weekends. we will not fold our wings but this is a dark day for those who love the free skies... Ori "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

that's BS. Hizbollah was (and always has) firing from within houses. one of the Israeli inteligence top successes was pinpointing exactly in which house hezbollah was storing their "big long range" missiles and the airforce took them out right at the begining (sadly hundreds of other rockets were launched too). hiding behind civilians is a nice tactic, your enemy thinks twice before shooting and if they do they are automatically condemmed as war criminals (even though the geneva convention clearly states that combating forces have to be clearly marked by uniform and cannot operated from within civilian population). O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

you mean the same neighbouring nation from which a commando unit crossed the border and kidnapped 2 israeli soldiers, or is it the one which from hundreds of rockets were launched right into israeli towns and cities? I call it war. and a just one if the other side attacked you unprovoked. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

wrong. all military presence was removed also. the only place where there is a "kind" of presence is by remote video in the border crossing between Gaza and egypt which is supposed to be monitored by UN or european personnel (not that it matters because they cross wherever they want anyway) the only part "annexed" by law is Jerusalem. the rest of the west bank is not considered Israeli by Israeli law (suggesting that there was no long term desire to keep it. I agree that many of the settlements in the west bank are a waste of time and money and everybody knows that they will be removed when peace is achieved. but to tell you the truth, although i was very happy to pull out of gaza, seeing the mess that exists there now, i'm not sure i want the same mess 5 minutes from where I live. Gaza was a test case and there were already plans to pull out from the west bank (with or without negotiations), sadly the palestinians failed this test case big time. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

i think the only criteria whether or not to include a certain common feature in the headline is how related this feature is to the action. if someone blows up things because he thinks its the right teaching of Islam then its very relevant (same goes for extreme christian groups who blow up clinics because God told them too). like anything else, you need to look at the root cause. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

- throughout history land exchanged hands in wars. keep in mind that Israel did not start these wars. and in the past 30 years Israel has been trying to give back these lands in exchange for peace. with egypt and Jordan this has worked, but both with Lebanon and the palestinians (whos land was Jordanian) after Israel's pull out all we got is rockets flying over the border. trust me when I tell you that most Israelis will give back lands that are very dear to us for the hope of peace. Gaza for us was a test case, Israel has pulled out completely and ever since then all of our border towns receive a daily (and i do mean daily) dose of missiles. and now it has become a terrorist organization controlled area with strong ties to the most extreme entitiles in the world (risking the PA, Israel and also egypt and jordan) O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

actually it was divided between the two nations who lived there, one simply never accepted the division plan. but that's irrelevant to this post. i'll be lying if i said that i don't prefer them shooting at eachother than shooting at me but I'm not happy with it at all. right after Israel was founded, it too was one step away from a civil war (look up "altalena") but Ben-Gurion a nation can only have one armed force and not a group of militias. this is something Israel has demanded tfrom Arafat since 1993 but he chose to let them be (and even use them when he thought it would be useful). now his party is overpowered and we're getting a much worse option... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

this is not better in any way or form. not for israel and not for the palestinians. now, instead of a dispute over land (as problematic as it is) with a (alightly) pragmatic entity it will become a religious issue of a holy war where Iran and other religious extremists are pulling the strings. the only (very vey very small) improvement is that now, when rockets are flying out of Gaza you cannot say that "these are extremists out of the PA's control" like they usuaaly say. when israel is now attacked from Gaza, it is by the official rulling party there. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

if everything has a maker, then god has a maker too, and god's maker has a maker etc. so who made god's maker's maker's maker? O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

cheap propaganda "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

good one... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

you're joking, right? you teach history because its relevant. you teach it so people will learn something from the past. history is what makes us into what we are today. ignoring something factual just because it might upset someone is a big win for holocaust deniers "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

i can't say that one has nothing to do with the other, but the Balfour decleration and the partition plan as a way to solve the conflict were before the holocaust. and as we know, one side accepted it and the other didnt. anyway, i don't want this to turn into another israeli palestinian thread, but if we're rewriting history just because someone might get pissed, its a problem. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

welcome to the middle east... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

errr, why would holocaust teaching would offend muslims? muslims in general are not holocaust deniers (at least not the muslims i know, beside one iranian maybe...) O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

he he, at least us jews got to be a few steps up the evolutionary ladder... if it wasn't so sad... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

and I believe otherwise. exactly the point. its NOT one nation, its 2 different nations. a border should be set exactly for the same reason any 2 nations have a border between them. my point exactly. Iran has no REAL reason to hate israel and to want to "wipe it off the map", beside the insanity of its current leaders... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."