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Yeah right...It must have been a horrible fight.. with the little head being the deciding factor.... over the negetive things the big head knew.... as usual for so many.... the little head won... Just as it happened to John McBush /sarcasm/ another incredibly substantive post. will you ever put up anything that even remotely resembles honest debate? . . . . . . . . . . . nah, didn't think so. Good night everyone, Happy New Year. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

I think if you look even a little there is LOTS of dirt in local politics Corruption abounds and a lot of it starts in your local church...http://www.republicancorruption.com/ All the people you love so much aren't you sweet tonight! hon, you gotta do better than that to get under my skin on New Year's Eve. let's stay on topic, shall we? we're talking about chicago. a predominantly democratic city. and a very corrupt city. is there a correlation? not necessarily, so don't go drawing unecessary inferences. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

What is so completely hilarious in all of this is that you actually believe the shit you just wrote. You actually believe I'm glued to O'Reilly and Hannity and have never read HuffPo in my life. What I've learned about you over the years is that your thought processes are so concretized that there is no point in trying to wake you up with facts. They don't make it past your filters. I have never said that Palin was so incredible. There were certainly things I liked about her. I think there is plenty to like. But there were some things to not like as well. She was not a complete package. She wasn't the GOP ticket's savior, clearly, but neither is she a female Forest Gump. Those of you who cling to that view of her betray your own Gumpiness. I had reservations about her as did most people. This difference b/t me and you is that I can see nuance, shades of grey, the good and the bad, etc. I don't have to completely idolize or, in your case, devalue someone based on ideologies or political party. That is why I vote according to conscience and not party lines. That is why I have no problem pulling a democratic lever instead of a republican one. Or an independent one for that matter. All you have are ad hominem attacks that completely lack substance. That is why you have sunk into irrelevance. What it says about me that I keep repeating this is that I have my own Gumpiness about me... but what can I say, I'm a sucker for tall women who are in ideological distress I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

It thought it was a pretty good last "Fuck you" from him to the country. Given it's the same state where the gov tore up Meiggs Field rather than follow the process, it doesn't seem too surprising either. It definitely puts the DNC and the Senate overall in an awkward situation. Still, I put his odds at being accepted at well under 50/50. The Mayor (Daley) tore up Meigs, not the gov. I'm fully aware that Daley performed the Meigs atrocity. It just seems to be symptomatic of a larger disease that is Windy City Politics. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

There's no PA in there, hon. And you should know, b/c you're the queen of them. And I have no desire to rebut the senseless blather of the poster you replied to, it's the same bullshit prejudice that people like you and he and so many other are famous for. It's such a shame really, that we live in such a society where an whole segments of society, i.e. leftist loonies, have their entire view of someone shaped by what they're fed. And you think Christians/Right Wingers are mindless drones who can't think for themselves? Lordie, if that isn't the funniest part of this whole thing... back to the same old song on SC... I guess the Obama Change Express hasn't caught up to y'all just yet. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

i'm not using the 12 step programs as some sort of proof for the existance of God. Belief in God and, for that matter, and whether you want to accept it or not, is ultimately only a question of faith. As you (or someone else) said, you can't prove God exists. However, you can't prove God doesn't either. In the matter of the 12 steppers, their surrender is their only act of will. They do not use their willpower to overcome their addiction. Some of the addicts I've known are some of the most willful, successful, driven people I've ever met and "will" was not enough to overcome the addiction. You may not, in the end, concede that a Higher Power intervened in the lives of these addicts. These addicts however, and many of their family members, need no further proof. A further point to address, one that you made in a previous post and that is regurgitated endlessly by those who have no belief in a God: that those who believe are just mindless drones. Such drivel tells me that you have met very few people who believe in God and/or you yourself have demonstrated being a mindless drone by buying into the widespread prejudice that those that believe in God are stupid or... (insert your own particular insulting adjective that makes believe you are superior to those who believe in God, especially those dim-witted Christians). Some of the sharpest minds in the world believe in God. Some of the sharpest minds in the history of the world not only believed in a God, as Einstein did, whom you quote in your sig line, but were also Christians. Perhaps a good primer for you would be Dinesh D'Souza's recent work (no dim bulb there either, that one), What's so Great About Christianity? I find the following juxtaposition particularly interesting, one that I do take part in. Many Christians condemn atheits to hell for their non-belief. Many atheists condemn believers as being stupid for their belief. Hmm. Quite a bit of pride and arrogance in both sides, if you asked me. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

We really like sea salt. Sea salt. Yum. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

It thought it was a pretty good last "Fuck you" from him to the country. Given it's the same state where the gov tore up Meiggs Field rather than follow the process, it doesn't seem too surprising either. It definitely puts the DNC and the Senate overall in an awkward situation. Still, I put his odds at being accepted at well under 50/50. I thought so too. Crafty little devil spawn, isn't he. I've read in a couple places now that are saying that constitutionally, the senate has the right to refuse to seat Buriss whereas other legal scholars claim that they don't have such a right Buriss could, after much legal battling mind you, succeed in being seated. What a fucking mess Boygeorgovich has created. BTW, I'm STILL pissed about Meigs. Burns my ass how that destroyed every time I fly into Chi-town. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

--------------------------------------------------------- Thats pretty much been my personal experience. And if I dont drink tonight, that will make 10 years. Congratulations, and continued success! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

(Sorry for detracting from the purpose of this thread) The success rate of AA may actually be about the same as the success rate with stopping on your own, therefore it cannot be touted as the end-all be-all for recovery. The odds are stacked against addicts as it is, so I would expect that a minority (non-believers) in a minority (AA success stories) to be very small. Who ever touted it as the end all for recovery? I've also dealt w/ people who have gotten sober w/o AA. What I was saying was that for those who engage in that program, it is tremendously successful and it is a program built on belief in God. The OP I was addressing made blanket assertions that there was no God and thus the only thing one can -and should- therefore do is to pull one's self up by one's boot straps and get about the business of changing. What I was illustrating is that in the business of addiction, that is a narrow view that has very limited success. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

Tell that the to the thousands and thousands of people who have gotten sober through programs like AA, NA, etc. whose very premise is in turning one's will and care over to a Higher Power to conquer something (an addiction) that has become bigger than that person's will. Many non believers manage with AA in spite of the implied God. Personally I think the notion that you're helpless is bullshit, but so far I don't seem to have a problem with alcohol, and I've deliberately avoided nicotine to prevent needing to deal with quitting. I don't know if all the participants really believe that part, or just go along because it's part of the 12 steps. You're right, there are some who don't believe in God who manage in 12-step programs. They are, however, the minority. As far as helplessness goes, that's really not the concept. It's powerlessness. It may not seem to be a differene to you, but it is. If they were truly helpless, there would be nothing they could do at all. But there is. They have a problem that has grown to be larger than their own will to control. That's the very definition of addition. They can allow something or someone that is larger than them and their addiction to intervene and help. They recognize they are powerless over their addiction but that they have the power to let a higher power intercede. For those who don't believe in God as a higher power, they may use the group as that higher power. However, most come to some belief in a God sooner or later if they remain in the program. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

Tell that the to the thousands and thousands of people who have gotten sober through programs like AA, NA, etc. whose very premise is in turning one's will and care over to a Higher Power to conquer something (an addiction) that has become bigger than that person's will. ETA: this still involves a choice, a decision to surrender, but it is far, far different from using one's will to try and choose to not use the object of one's addiction. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

It certainly does fit certain people here..... sorry I dont duck step to your favorite drummer QUACK .... QUACK ...QUACK...... Lotsa ducks around these days. like i said... irrelevancy... damn you look silly. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

then I have to assume you meant to comment about that which is in the reply to... And when the HATE level goes thru the roof at the very mention of a Kennedy name.... I usually expect to find Vinny there along with the rest of the far right posters who hate any and every Kennedy as they have been taught to all of their lives.... I repeat the question...What the hell are you talking about??? You are taking off on tangents that are off of tangents that are off of tangents. The posts you are making are just so much gibberish I don't know if anyone can make sense of them. I don't hate Kennedys, I don't idolize SP (or even like her for that matter) or any of the other things you are accusing me of. Maybe all your posters of Bill Clinton are keeping you from seeing the writing on the wall...the writing that says PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO DISAGREE WITH YOU and the writing that says THESE PEOPLE AREN'T ALL RADICAL RIGHT-WINGERS! Save your breath. She's moved so completely into irrelevancy it's not even funny. And you are a right-wing nut job, face it. If you disagree Amazon, you're a kool aid drinking, bible totin, sex-hatin, bush lovin right winger whose only mission in life is to subjugate her and oppress her and somehow infringe on her rights by your thoughts. The sooner you embrace this truth, the happier we will all be. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

I have nothing to suck up, except a little around my midsection. I'm solid in my beliefs and convictions. Your remarks do nothing to me. Your remarks do however bring a level of denegration to public discourse that a) reflect badly on yourself and b) promote an unpleasant environment where constructive debate is thwarted. To blame your behavior on just returning what was once given is bullshit. Palin never did anything to you so why treat her with such disdain? I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

This is where I stand. CK is intellectually qualified to be a Senator. She's particularly versed on constitutional law, which I would count as important right now. But she has virtually no political skills, and in a state the size of New York, there must be countless more that are both intelligent and experienced. In a smaller state (ie, Alaska), she might be a sound selection. OTOH, Palin's experience as a politician is still pretty mediocre when you're looking at the potentials in New York. And she's ignorant as a rock. The difference in coverage is no shock - if elected, Palin was in a 4 year slot to be the successor to leadership of the western world. CK is in a two year slot to be a junior senator before having to get reelected. She represents 1/58th of 1/2th of the US government. (1/100 of 1/3 if you treat all Senators equally, as well as all branches) You raise extremely good points. I don't doubt one bit that CK has a sharp mind. While I haven't read her books on Constitutional Law (forgive me, that sort of thing just isn't my bag), word is she's sharp. However, where I disagree with you is your patent dismissal of SP. She's far from ignorant and that is precisely my point. The media used her public appearances and lack of speaking skills to paint her as a back woods, trailer trashy chawbacon while Ms. Kennedy sounds exactly the same as her in public but is not so swiftly discredited. Both women have made notable accomplishments in their careers that that no decerebrate yokel could have made. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

I find it uproariously funny that you would even TRY to compare Bible Spice and Caroline. She is far more intelligent, far more educated, far more accomplished and far more cosmopolitan and well traveled than your poster child for the religious wrong will EVER even pretend to be. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I find it incredibly sad how you can manage to try and be so incredibly insulting and ugly towards anyone whose views you don't agree with, so frequently and with such vigor. It's just beyond me why anyone would be this way. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

Um, well I do believe I mentioned that fact in a post up above... I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

Well, that's why you need a gun. Duh. LOL!!! Shit was I drunk when I wrote that? What a twat. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

Grossly overstating? No, not hardly. True there is negative press about CK, but it hasn't nearly reached the vitriolic level as did the SP stuff. Not even close. Why? B/c she's a Kennedy and she's a democrat. While it is a little surprising to see the press eat one of it's own darlings, so to speak, it will not rise to the same level. Just b/c there is some criticism out there and some mockery of the embarassment that is the CK "campaign," we will not see the complete saturation of hate filled rhetoric from the media as we did w/ Palin. In part this is b/c it's just a senate seat. But let's be honest. It's also because she's a Kennedy and she's a democrat and she espouses leftist ideologies. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

you win... TEQUILA! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

Perhaps while you're perusing the halls of wikipedia, you might also want to research a thing or two about food production, natural resources, and the root causes of hunger (hint: it has little to do w/ overpopulation and much to do w/ tribal warfare and corrupt govts. and classes starving other tribes and classes). I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

I uh... you know... well uh.... and NAFTA.... you know.... uh... How bad will Ms. Kennedy be busted on, villified, crucified, hung out to dry, b/c of her apparent inability to form coherent thoughts in public? As badly as Ms. Palin? Probably not... I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

Yeah, that's the love of Jesus for ya. You got part of it right but sheesh, you sure lost it at the end. Way to win 'em over sport. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

I've done it for years since 9/11. However, I've had great difficulty w/ some authorities in states with strict gun laws not honoring their own laws or federal firearn transport laws, honoring their own laws regarding transporting unloaded/locked guns, etc. Just be very careful if you want to transport in any locale where they are known to be hostile to private citizens owning/having/carrying/possessing firearms. Travelling through such places, even legally, may be treacherous. The worst place for this is White Plains/Westchester Co. NY, worse FAR worse than NYC. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...