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Fixed it for you. You're on a roll, bro. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

Type of container? Wing loading? Ah shit, that was funny! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

Because the questions you asked had nothing to do with what I said. It has everything to do with what you said. You accused the Vatican of lying about this issue. So, please demonstrate that they are, in fact, lying. Please illustrate that birth control hormones, excreted in the urine of females, can not possibly account for what has been found in water sources around this country and in other areas of the industrialized world. Bill Von has pointed me to sources that seem to indicate that there are other chemicals that are dumped into water sources that can mimic the effects of synthetic estrogen. While this seems to be the case, this doesn't necessarily account for what has been seen in the water. This doesn't put this matter to rest. Given the ubiquitous nature of artificial birth control in this country, I would imagine that the amount of synthetic estrogen that is excreted from urine and dumped into water supplies would be far from negligible. What would need to be determined is what percentage of water in region x where these abnormalities are found is due to BC hormones and what percentage is due to other possible sources. What happens in a lab when you subject fish to hormones found in BC pills vs. the chemicals found in pesticides and detergents that can mimic synthetic estrogen? Are there differences? If so, what are they? Has this been looked at? Do you know? To dismiss the Vatican's statements out of hand b/c you disagree with their teachings on a particular issue of morality is irresponsible, myopic and only displays your prejudices. Better to get the facts and make a decision than to go slinging shit like "they're a bunch of liars." I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

I still have a hard time believing you're not black from your avatar. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

As old as it is, your sig line continues to make me laugh (yes I remember "the scrotum episode") I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

So White won't sign the form, Buriss will file suit and the battle begins... lord have mercy. Here we go. SCOTUS, get ready, here they come! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

i don't see how reid et al could possibly stop the legal seating of burris in the senate. according to some constitutional lawyers whose opinions i've read, reid et al may not like it, but they really can't do anything to stop it. however, they can make burris' life in the senate hell and rather impotent as a senator. that will continue to disenfranchise the people of illinois, who have already been paying for having retarded leadership for a long time. my question is why would burris WANT this? why would you want this to be your legacy? I mean the man is old! this will likely be his last hurrah! and one other thing... bobby rush just needs to shut the f*ck up. This is NOT a racial issue. him pulling the race card all the time about this just makes me see red. argh! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

I see you didn't answer my previous post that you just quoted. That's alright, I really didn't expect that you would. I'm fully aware of what exaggeration and distortion are. However, I'm not so quick to ascribe nefarious motives to the church in this circumstance. You, on the otherhand, see nothing but nefarious motives coming from Rome. You have yet to demonstrate that they have exaggerated, distorted, and lied about this issue. I ask you again, please produce the evidence. Please, jakee, refute their position in such a sound manner that there is, without a doubt, no way that birth control hormone pollution can be causing these problems. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

Great question... a lot of pharmacies have a disposal program where you can bring your old/unused stuff in and they'll properly dispose of them free. edited to add... but how THEY dispose of them, I don't know... I hope they don't just throw them in the trash. That'd be something worth looking into. In the clinical trial work I do, alot of investigational product that is not utilized has to be incinerated. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

It's not using secular research to back up its position, it is using exaggerated, distorted and sometimes completely fabricated interpretations of science to back up its position. In other words, lies. You are completely sure that there is no influence of birth control chemicals on animals in water? you've read the work that David Norris did w/ the EPA at the Univ. of Colorado? You've also read the research out of the Battelle Marine Sciences Lab, where they purposely exposed trout to the synthetic estrogen found in BC pills? Just what research have you read, Jakee, that has convinced you that the synthetic estrogen that has been found in these waters is due to pesticides, household cleaners and other products and not at all, not one bit, from excretions of female urine? Please tell me where to find this work, Jakee, where researchers have categorically removed, without a doubt, the possible influence of synthetic estrogen from birth control on the environment. I'll wait... I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

found this article that certainly supports your position... very interesting (and scary) stuff! http://lists.dep.state.fl.us/pipermail/pharmwaste/2007-June/001193.html I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

So what exactly do you propose? Mandatory use of birth control? Mandatory child limits? Mandatory sterilization? Forced abortions for those who don't comply? I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

Thanks bill. Sure, the last one is rich with political language and the topics discussed may deal w/ hot-button political issues, but that doesn't ipso facto mean that the cause of the pollution in question can't be by those very hot button products. We shouldn't immediately discount the possiblity that the very products that helped usher in the age of sexual freedom (the pill and it's many derivitives) could be colliding with some other culturally relevant issue, like environmentalism. It is entirely possible, at least for some people, to disengage their emotions and prejudices from these issues long enough to discuss the matter. I for one am not so quick to let BC hormones off the hook and blame other products for these freaks of nature in the water. I'd like to see more research, esp. about the chronology of events... when did they start showing up vs. when did all the estrogen laden urine start getting dumped vs. when did the other products start getting dumped? I know there isn't a fine demarkation in time here, but surely there should be some way of determining what is more causal for these environmental probs, BC or other things. I'll read the links you provided. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

Please back up your last statement w/ something tangible bill. None of the articles I've read on this matter seem to be politically based. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

I'm not evading your point at all and your making an unwarranted assumption about why the Vatican is making these statements. The Vatican isn't trying to repackage it's anti-BC artguments. It is, however, using secular research in this area to back up it's existing prohibition, in effect saying look, we told you this wouldn't be good for a number of reasons. Like I said, in order to have an intelligible conversation about this, I challenge you to read Humanae Vitae. I'll even provide you with a link, but I doubt you will take the time to read it. Most people don't really want to understand why the church teach this or that thing. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html One last thing... while people have indeed left the church in droves as a result of the church's steadfast teaching on birth control there are many people coming into the church today for that very same reason. They are finding that embracing the total vision for sexuality in marriage (of which not using birth control is just one piece), as taught by the church and expressed eloquently by John Paul II in his Theology of the Body, strengthens and fortifies marriages. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

I still have a *little* faith in the American people, even after the last election. Faith that they will keep a large number of family members out of the White House. My comment about the Kennedy's was a joke, poking fun at some people who literally worship the Kennedy clan and would have loved to have all of them make it to the big chair. Those are some of the same people screaming murder if Jeb tries to run. Well spoken, Dave. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

Nope. The Vatican's principal motivation for doing this is not to promote environmental protection, it's simply a lame attempt come up with a more "palatable" rationalization of its arcane, out-of-touch stance on artificial contraception. It's insulting to the intelligence. Next I expect they'll scare up some stories about small children and puppies choking to death on condoms and IUDs. You've never even read Humanae Vitae, have you? Do you even know what it is, when it was written, who wrote it? Why don't you read it first, then perhaps we can have an intelligible conversation on this matter b/c you clearly do not understand the church's stance against artificial birth control. Perhaps after reading that document, in which Pope Paul VI wrote quite prophetically what would be the consequences of the widespread adoption of birth control, you will understand the church's motivation for her position. "There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be." — Fulton J. Sheen I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

well instead of turning this into a thread to bash the church with, perhaps you all should do a little more research into this matter. any google search will turn up the work of EPA scientists and others who have discovered that the synthetic estrogen found in birth control pills have been showing up in waterways around our country for some time now, altering the fertility of fish and causing gender abnormalities. other research has been and is being done to see how this waterway exposure would affect human fertility. i'll let you read up on all of this research for yourself, then you can come back here and apologize for using this as just another launching point for which to attack the church. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

/Austin Powers/ Yeah Baby, YEAH! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

VR/Marg I certainly get that... and an odd correlation at that... of course the numbers really aren't that high, but I didn't read the article so I don't know if p values are discussed. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

Just imagine how bad he must feel about that. I always get the shivers whenever I accidentally agree with Amazon on something. Amazon; I'm probably regarded by most on here as being around as lefty as you can get, but I fully agree with the righties on this one - the way you post makes you look like nothing but a bad joke. Jeanne, please take note. C'mon, raise the tone would ya? I've looked forward to coming back and engaging in some fun-loving banter, but you've really made it... not so fun. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

Wait a minute... are you saying that Barney Frank is a Republican? Ok sweetie, one more time... please learn, first of all, to try to stay on topic. Second, try to see the whole picture. The state of our nation has a lot to do w/ a lame president (something I've said before, but evidentally, when those words present themselves to you, they just look blurry so you can't read them) but it also has to do with greedy, pinheaded democrats like Frank who carry a large burden of responsibility for the housing fiasco that precipitated the economic crisis we're in. Remember: Whole Picture. Nuances, shades of grey, not all idolization/devaluation based on your ideologies. And finally, please give up this rediculous trolling behavior. I used to think so much better of you. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

i'm not using the 12 step programs as some sort of proof for the existance of God. Belief in God and, for that matter, and whether you want to accept it or not, is ultimately only a question of faith. As you (or someone else) said, you can't prove God exists. However, you can't prove God doesn't either. In the matter of the 12 steppers, their surrender is their only act of will. They do not use their willpower to overcome their addiction. Some of the addicts I've known are some of the most willful, successful, driven people I've ever met and "will" was not enough to overcome the addiction. You may not, in the end, concede that a Higher Power intervened in the lives of these addicts. These addicts however, and many of their family members, need no further proof. They're still using willpower to overcome their addictions, they're just getting a little help from the support structure of the program, and the placebo effect. could be, but it's a hell of a placebo effect then. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

great post, and one i totally agree with. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

Oh thats right.. its not on FAUX NEWS.. so it cant be true.... Not to worry... you will have another 8 years to go on and on and on about blow jobs more than 8 years ago.... Jeanne, you weren't always this much of a troll, at least a few years ago. What happened? I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...