steveorino

I didn't fail any, but I'm only a "good" skydiver, not a "great" one. I know some "great" skydivers who failed a level or two. Therefore, it probably doesn't mean a hill of beans how many jumps it takes to get off student status. It is what you do with those basic skills afterwards that will mean the most in the long run. Good luck as you work to become great.

However, it is very hard or almost next to impossible to have an open mind for the supernatural if your core belief says it is impossible, What would it take for you to believe in God? steveOrino

Jack, I'm sorry if I offened you. The top ten sent to me struck me funny. I guess everyone doesn't share my sick sense of humor. Please accept my apology. I'm convinced we all have core beliefs that influence our thinking a lot more than we know. For instance, in the clinic where I work as an adolescent therapist there is a beautiful girl who believes she is ugly. Someone has taught her early on she is of little value. She views the world through this crappy lens. I also see it with anorexic girls; weighing less than 85 pounds they see themsleves as fat. Their core beliefs about themsleves is almost impossible to break. I do have a core belief that I am wonderfully made by a creator that loves me. Dang if everything I see in this world isn't through that lens. That has brought me happiness and purpose.

No, it would go against their core belief that women were reliable witnesses. steveOrino

To no atheist in particular. Someone sent me this and I thought it was pretty funny given some of the replies I have read here in this thread and others from THE thread ...

The gospels have other clues they are not the product of legend, besides their exclusion of an event that would have given them credence had they included it. For instance: At that time why put the only eye witnesses to empty tomb of JC was women when their testimony was invalid in their culture? The only reason to do that is it was the truth. Had legend or myth created that fact Peter or one of the other disciples would have been the one to discover the empty tomb, not women whose testimony had no value. steveOrino

In the Gospels JC predicts the fall of Jerusalem. if they had been written after the fact (70AD) you don't think they would include that little tidbit? steveOrino

Legend takes time to develop. Writings within 30-40 years after an event is typically not looked at as having time for legend to develop. steveOrino

With authentication of ancient writings more weight is given to those writings that are closer to the date of origin. There are many manuscript portions that are lot closer than 300-400 years. Of course none of this means anything if you are not willing to exercise some amount of faith. steveOrino

The realibility of the New Testament is quite good. Look at the number of copies and how closely they are dated to the original in comparison to any other writings of that era. That fact along with they were the writings of a race of people (Jews) who had no voice in the powers of their world (Rome) and it is even more remarkable. steveOrino

That is the 34 foot tower -- not the 250 tower. In my BCT (1977) I had a dalmation walk all over me while I was in a prone position at the firing range. I was told by the drill sgt. not to say anything to the dog, as he was a corporal and had 22 jumps to boot! steveOrino

Can I ask - do you put weight in these portions because you believe they actually happened? "Red words" are statements of Christ in the NT, not necessarily events. Yes, I believe he said them. Notice I said "believe" It is an act of faith. There is debate on the validity of his sayings, (see Jesus Seminar) however, all those in the debate and outside the debate come with their own world view and core beliefs. I have them and so does everyone else. steveOrino

BINGO! We have a winner! steveOrino

I understand why you think the Bible is a "story book" but I also hope you understand why those who are of the Christian faith see a big difference between what we call scripture and what we call legend. I put no faith in legend or teachings of the church, however, I do put a lot of weight in the "red word" portions of the NT. steveOrino

I think he meant medieval. Sorry you didn't get that. Or were you intentionally trying to misunderstand him? It is okay -- I deserved the poke. I was trying to type before I went to work. steveOrino

I guess that has become your stumbling block to faith in Christ. steveOrino

That's what I would need. Not necessarily the shining cross, but to take faith out of the equation, ie I'd need some evidence. I don't think that's unreasonable. You come to God through faith ... according to scripture. steveOrino

Here 10 to get you started that I asked, I have more… 1. Why is there no credible evidence to support the story Christ in the bible? The response of Rome to the rise of Christianity is adequate evidence that there was a historic figure called Jesus. 2.Where is the Holy Grail You got to be kidding me! You think I should base my faith on a midevial legend? The "grail" has NOTHING to do with authenic Christianity. 3.Where is Noah’s Ark? I don't see how this applies to JC, but I suggest it is decayed into nothing whever it is. 4.Where is the ark of the covenant? I'm fairly confident it was melted down when Jerusalem was capotured by Nebuchanezzor (sp?) 5. Why should I reject Allah, Vishnu, Budda, Waheguru and all of the thousands of other gods that other people worship today. Have 1.4Billion+ Muslims got it all wrong? You need to see for yourself if what those other "gods" (BTW Buddha is not a god) teach and if their truths align with each other. 6.Whys is there not a shining cross in the night sky to remind us all? When did God say he would do that? Or is that what YOU would need? If sso, you have taken "faith" out of the equation. 7.According to the bible Jesus heals a blind man, why did he not just cure blindness all together? JC's stated purpose was to make men "whole" saved. His miracles were to give his teaching authority. In other words, this world's greatest needs is more than physical wholeness. 8.Why does “power of Prayer” prove every time it is tested not to work? Prayer is not a formula, to get what you want, but rather it is designed to move your desires more in alignment with God. 9.Why are Most of the key points in Christianity not original? The pre-Christian God Mithras - called the Son of God and the Light of the World - was born on December 25, died, was buried in a rock tomb, and then resurrected in three days. By the way, December 25 is also the birthday or Osiris, Adonis, and Dionysus. The newborn Krishna was presented with gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Even Christianity's weekly holy day was stolen from the pagans." Much of what you refer to are additions added to the Christian faith (ie Decmber 25th) apart from the Bible. 10.Why doesn't Jesus appear to everyone and prove that he is resurrected, just like he appeared to Paul? There is nothing to stop Jesus from materializing in your kitchen tonight to have a personal chat with you. And if you think about it, Jesus really does need to appear to each of us. If Paul needed a personal visit from Jesus to know that Jesus was resurrected, then why wouldn't you? As to why doesn't he do that? I can't say as he did not say. He has made himself more real to me than you have even though you and I can carry on an internet conversation. steveOrino

Yes, some go in that direction also. What question did you ask that moved you away from God? steveOrino

Well, that was my point. Your questions moved you farther away from religion/christianity, but did it move you farther away from God in your world view? steveOrino

That is why I said "tends to" No, I never treat theology as a science any more than I'd treat a science book as theology. I was basing my statement on personal experience through the years. Maybe I should have said, "It has been my experince over the past 36 years I have been a pastor is when the people I have pastored have asked hard questions about God it moved them closer to God, not farther away." steveOrino

Tom, you are the man! Thanks for following through with this for me! steveOrino

So your assumption is that God is contained in religion and organized church, and thereby leaving that you moved farther away? steveOrino

That's what I thought. Of course, not being catholic I responded to his statement with the only response I could give with confidence by using the word "may". My original point still stands. Questioning truths about God tends to move us closer to him not farther away. steveOrino

Huh? Wasn't he excommunicated? He's roasting in hell as we speak for his heresy. I guess the Catholics may think so -- protestants don't. steveOrino