jdhill

That is not a majority, that would be a mandate... a majority is anything over 50%... 51.4% is a majority, 48% is obviously not... I don't even think this is one of the closest, not in terms of popular vote anyway... 2000, 1968, 1960, 1916, 1908... all closer. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Actually 2000 was the closest, in terms of EC numbers and popular vote... '04 will see a clear majority in the popular vote (which has not happened in several elections) and more than a 1 vote EC margin... so this will not be the closest... J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

There is also the issue that not all states require their electors vote the way their states popular vote goes, a phenomenon called "faithless electors". Its rare, but can happen, although I doubt in a scale that would turn an election. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

While I haven't seen it in print yet, I saw on the local news channel a story about the Philli machines, and a least one of the workers says that it was NOT the total vote counter (which is like an odomiter), but the digital one that counts votes in this session... if true, that would debunk PK's claim, at least in that case... Edit to add... if its fraud or error is not clear, but I would not be surprised if it ends up in court... As for my experiance, its not fraud, but complete disorganization in the polling place resulting in lines so long on one side of the room that access codes expired while the machines on the other side of the room sat unused... the head of the polling place had no clue what was going on, nor did her workers... Dems, Reps, Libs, and all others there were united in their disgust with the situation. I got out of there in about an hour and a half, and about 40 mins. late for work... I guess being the boss has its advantages. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

I don't know... the Astros have taken 5 out of the last 6, and swept the Cards in their last series... J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

If that were the majority of those fighting us over there, I would be able to understand... but its not, nor does it justify beheading people who are helping to rebuild. Edit to add: You, Bill, seem to be the one making out the fight to be against Arabs... Trent and others have said many times that there is a difference between terrorists who happen to be Arab, and all Arabs, and if fact the terrorists who we are fighting who are not all Arab. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Perhaps if they acted like those things were important to them, we would be a step closer... but they do not. Generally speaking, we do... I have not found a soldier yet who said the prison abuse thing was cool with them, to include trained Intel people. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Its not about Arabs, I don't think we have a beef with, or are fighting most Arabs as a group... its about radical muslim extremists... growing their religion (or what they think their religion ought to be) through violence in unacceptable... it needs faced and stopped... there is no reasoning with the unreasonable... Radical islamic extremists attacked our civilians, not our military, and that is the only valid reason on the table. The prison abuse thing should not have happend... did they attack the prison guards, no, they kidnapped and beheaded people who had nothing to do with it. The verman that do these things do not deserve any place at the table. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

We gave Afgan Freedom Fighters weapons to resist the Russian invasion, which happend to be in our interest too... but actually that has nothing to do with the Arabs since Afgans are not Arab... We gave Sadam weapons to fight Iran... the enemy of my enemy is my freind sort of thing... that was a mistake that grew out of the Hostage Crisis, and SH never really loved us then... Arabs are killing Arabs in unprecidented numbers, and we have killed some too, and it continues bucasue a small group of people don't want to participate in the political process, and another group that just hate everything until the world is an islamic theocracy... J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

So how does this lead to the Egyptian, Sirian, or Jordanian terrorist? We have not commited violence against them... nor are their governments "proped-up" by us... All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

If that's true, then that is where they need to direct their hate... It seems to me that it is not the common citizen, it is the small, yet violent, group of citizens (or not) that cause the problems... J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

But why should they hate us for these things? We have troops in SA ans Kuwait (and most other Arab countries) at the invitation of their governments, what's their real beef with Israel? The Arabs don't want the Palestinians any more than the Israelis do... they don't like Israel because it created a refugee issue for them (and that pesky little religion thing)... maybe it was a kneejerk reation to create a Jewish homeland after the Holocaust, we should just let it go away now... that's the answer... The hate is created by the demagoguery of the extreamist leaders... even if all those reasons went away, they would still hate... J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Bill, those numbers don't add up... there are only 538 votes in the EC, not 634... Rass. has Bush 240, Kerry 179, 119 Toss up... J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

But what about the US pharmacies? How many will loose their jobs? What is the differnece in that and offshoring other jobs? J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

The inspectors agree that there are no stockpiles. Bu, even according to the UN, there was not a verifiable accounting of their destruction, which was required by the UN... The UN inspectors could not account for where they went... they (Iraq) say they destroyed them, but with SH's track record, should we have taken his word? We now know their not there, but we may not have known that otherwise... All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Yeah, even by CBS and CNN... how bad is that? J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Let's do a little geography... Iraq is in Asia, he had missiles that could reach Turkey, which is in Europe (as defined by the EU, it actually spans both)... Intercontinental... 150km was the limit impossed by the UN... he had missiles that could go further, that were developed during the 12 year inter-war period... he only destroyed them when faced with invasion. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

That's your opinion... In mine, I call it blowing with the political winds, and election year BS... It is a shame for the Democrats, that the best they could put forward this year was Kerry/Edwards... it should have been a runaway election for them... Bush was ripe to fall, not becasue he went to Iraq, but because how the post-war was prosecuted at the national level... J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

When Kerry voted against the authorization to use force for the 1st gulf war, he claimed it was because he knew it was a vote to go to war... even though it was "authorization" the same as the one in 2003 was... So if he knew in 1990 that a vote for authorization was a vote for use, but he didn't know that in 2003, what does that make him? Forgetful? No matter how many time you folks say he only voted for an authorization, he knew it meant use... You never pull a gun unless you are willing to pull the trigger. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

They do not contradict the fact that Iraq's WMD stockpile, which was known to exist in the 90's (in fact he had banned missiles until 2 months before the war), destruction is not documented as required by UN sanction... Now add that to intelligence, from multiple sources, that says he has programs, and his games with inspection teams... now, even if you get intelligence suggesting he may not have programs, you've just been attacked buy a group know to have ties with SH (not neccessarily a colabrotive position in this attack)... Now add the fact that the Iraq thing has been going on for 12 years, and the only way SH does anything is at gun point, and the US and UK are the only ones who seem to be willing to point the gun at him... What decision do you make... action, or wait and see? The war on terror is not just a war on AQ, or a hunt for OBL... it is a war on all terror supporters and organizations. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

MEEP, MEEP, MEEP, MEEP...

The requirement to release student name to military recruiters existed well before NCLB... When I was a recruiter, I had plenty of schools that would not release lists, and I had as an option the threat of loss of funds... we never used it, even as a threat. There were /are other ways to gain the information. If the student's account of the recruiter's approach is accurate, which it may or may not be, there is an issue with the recruiter, that has nothing to do NCLB. That approach is appropriate for some, but not for all... There are kids out there whose only chance to get out of the ghetto, or trailer park, or any other cyclical situation, is the military... sometimes they need to be smacked in the face with it. Again, maybe not in this case... J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

It was a negotiated point... Bush/Cheney wanted it becasue it is a format that favors Cheney, and keeps Edwards tied down (he likes to move around allot when he speaks)... nothing to do with Cheny's ability to stand for a period of time. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

I jumped a ST for about 700 jumps or so, and have been jumping a Velocity for over 1000 jumps now, most of them with a multiple camera setup. The openings tend to search, sometimes allot, but are fairly soft. I've had the occational hard opening, but had the same with the ST... As for other characteristics, the Velocity will get you back from a long way, longer than I got on my ST, even at a 50% higher wingloading. You will need to turn the Velocity at a higher altitude... I generally do a 270 from between 1K' and 800'. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

I didn't think the moderator did that great of a job... she got confused about who's turn it was more than once... I thought Edwards did OK, but at times looked like a little yappy dog, nipping at Cheney's heels... gave the impression that he was excitable when compared to Cheney's steadiness... I doubt it will change anyones mind, and if anything, stifled any momentum Kerry had gained for last week's debate... J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke