masterblaster72

Watching women's curling, Switzerland v Britain on tv. Carmen Shafer makes the ice around her melt...she's gonna lose the match for her team if she's not careful. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

Why no, that is perfectly reasonable. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

My favorites are fairly recent: Stefano Baldini winning the 2004 Marathon in Athens and Giorgio DiCenta's sick finish to win the 50K Cross-Country Freestyle in Turin 2006

Sure there is; it's just that the Kenyans always win. Ethiopians have won their fair share of races. BTW you rarely ever see Libyans win, why is that? One of the best exchanges I've seen on this forum. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

Here's the best documentary I found on Genghis Khan, from BBC. Really worth watching and very well done. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXt0KBNdKtA Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

Man fined $290,000 by a court for speeding in his Ferrari Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

I love cats. Sorry for your loss - Tabi looks beautiful in those pictures. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

Fixed. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

Americans have mastered smug and arrogant nationalism long ago after WWII, to a level of absurdity that post WWII Europe can't touch. Also, one of five people in Switzerland is an immigrant, so there's no lack of pluralism in this country or anywhere else in Western Europe for that matter. France and England are fine examples for starters -- ever been? And it's not Europeans in this thread griping about how America should vote or should accommodate this or that group while accusing your country of bigotry (no arrogance in that, is there). That's all you. Keep the chuckles coming. Andy must have been taking the piss - His post was way too funny to be serious....... Yeah his posts are often hilarious, but in this case it doesn't look to me like he was joking. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

Americans have mastered smug and arrogant nationalism long ago after WWII, to a level of absurdity that post WWII Europe can't touch. Also, one of five people in Switzerland is an immigrant, so there's no lack of pluralism in this country or anywhere else in Western Europe for that matter. France and England are fine examples for starters -- ever been? And it's not Europeans in this thread griping about how America should vote or should accommodate this or that group while accusing your country of bigotry (no arrogance in that, is there). That's all you. Keep the chuckles coming. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

I don't see that anyone has to adapt, if everyone simply allows everyone else to just live and let live. Which is precisely what members of some Muslim immigrant communities throughout Europe are *not* doing. You continue to ignore this point while crying bigotry. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

No, an immigrant is a guest in his/her host country and the burden is on the immigrant to respect the ways of the host country. It is not the obligation of the host country to let an immigrant do whatever he/she wishes against the will of the host populace. You're applying American ideas to a non-American country. Nor does Switzerland have an obligation to meet your standards of what's right. Switzerland is and has always been an insular nation, and that obviously has not worked out badly for the Swiss since Switzerland is one of the most prosperous and wealthy nations in the world. What a dramatic exaggeration. AGAIN, Switzerland is not banning headscarves or burqas. Instead of continuing to cry bigotry, stop ignoring the ideas posted in the WP article above (and in scores of posts upthread), which I think does a fine job of explaining the outcome of this vote. I'm posting the gist of it for you in case you're not open to clicking on the link and reading the article. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

'Democracy' and 'freedom' are not the same thing. An unchecked democracy can and will vote to restrict the freedoms of minorities within the state. What do you think is more free, a state where a simple majority can vote to do absolutely anything to any group of people, or a state that has limits on what a simple majority can decide? Way to load up the question with hyperbole. It's not like Switzerland is requiring Muslims to register with the local police (or even banning Muslims from wearing headscarves for that matter). Call it a dodge if you like, but I won't attempt to provide a reasonable answer to an unreasonable question. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

As a non-Jewish country would Germany have the right to ban synagogues? That's a weak analogy, considering that Switzerland hasn't banned mosques. Not to mention that there's no structure on a synagogue that makes noise. Nice dodge. As we've already discussed up-thread, the Swiss law is not a noise restriction; even a "silent" minaret would still be banned. The law is all about the visual symbolism of a single religion - as made clear by its actual original proponents. It's a tap-into bigotry, plain and simple. To try, now, to tell us otherwise is to insult our intelligence. The ad for the measure put out by the party is undoubtedly a tap into bigotry. The reasons why each person voted for the measure is not necessarily motivated by bigotry; they could be motivated by objective, non-bigoted observations of what happened in other European countries in recent years (where minarets *do* make noise) -- and not wanting a repeat in their own country. Refer to VB's last post, above. So I'll ask you again: is a democracy only free when a populace votes the "correct" way? Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

As a non-Jewish country would Germany have the right to ban synagogues? That's a weak analogy, considering that Switzerland hasn't banned mosques. Not to mention that there's no structure on a synagogue that makes noise. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

And I don't know what you're replying to either. I've read your posts in the past that were rather anti-religion (that I often found myself agreeing with, mind you). Your first reply to me in this thread was an attack on the democratic process as the "tyranny of the majority," and now you're ranting on about how the banning of a structure restricts Muslim immigrants' freedom, while it is a FACT that the generous and welcoming approach has failed more than once throughout Europe. So though I don't know what you're replying to, it is obvious what you're ignoring. You're arguing for the sake of arguing. By the way, I think Italy is a great choice of places to move to, good you're considering it. You might find yourself a tad less argumentative there as they don't have a national ban on minarets. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

Better that the Swiss decide what's decent for their society rather than some dude posting from a keyboard in the US. Dude, you've invoked Godwin at least a few times in this thread. AND you've told others that their posts are irrelevant... Thanks for the laugh pal. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

Okay dude, you got me there. I believe in oppression and the utter destruction of the human spirit. Long live Big Brother. You win. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

I grew up in Philadelphia in the 80's, when we had the MOVE incident with Ramona Africa etc. In short, these people were getting on loudspeakers shouting all kinds of nonsense and profanities in the name of their personal beliefs, waking people up during odd hours of the morning. They also left garbage heaps and human waste in their yards, attracting all kinds of vermin (which also affected the non-MOVE residents around them). Should the local residents have allowed the MOVE followers to do what they did in order to express themselves, at their personal sacrifice? My MOVE analogy above is a rather extreme and irrelevant one -- not much different than your analogy on banning silent church steeples. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

Please refer to quade's post #10 in this thread. A minaret is not silent; its purpose is for making tower calls. A mosque without minarets may very well be silent -- and they're still allowed in Switzerland. This is not a ban on Islam as opponents of the measure make it out to be. The precedent of voting to accommodate the Muslim minority has been set in other countries, and has failed miserably for many natives of Netherlands, Italy, Germany, etc. In my view there's nothing wrong with the people of Switzerland learning from those precedents and voting accordingly as they wish. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

How do you tie the result of this vote in with freedom of speech? I would say to you that this is a prime example of how un-checked democracy leads to a loss of freedom of speech. If unchecked democracy means voting directly on issues that may affect my life, I'll take it any time. And by the way, if I could vote against loud church bells in my neighborhood, I'd jump at the opportunity. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

I disagree -- Switzerland has no historical baggage and owes the world nothing. The people in the country decided what they wanted and that's the result. May I ask you this question: is democracy only democracy when a country votes the "correct" way? Though this result is obviously not to your liking, it's what the people of Switzerland want, and got -- thanks to a democratic process. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

The people have spoken. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

OK. I'm not sure if you're saying that two wrongs make a right, or that you advocate Switzerland becoming more like Saudi Arabia. Either idea is pretty silly. That's all you dude...I'm not saying either of the things you mentioned in your reply. I don't think that the idea of deferring to the people to decide on an issue is a silly one. And that's not at all like Saudi Arabia, where the royal family, rather than the people, have a say in whether churches get built. I wonder whether the majority of Saudi Arabians oppose the building of churches in their own country...I wouldn't be surprised at all if the majority of people there are not in favor of that law. To each country its own...if the majority of Swiss citizens feel that minarets don't fit in, then let it be. That's the way I see it anyhow. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

So you're a supporter of the tyrrany of the majority. Why should 50.1% of a country be able to overrule the rights of the other 49.9%? Because that's the way it works my friend...not an ideal system (recent American history shows that), but it's the best we've got. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.