idrankwhat

Originally I wasn't going to respond to these comments. But after thinking about it I thought I'd be doing you guys a disservice if I didn't point out that the notion that opponents of the war somehow want the US to fail and for Iraq to fall into a genocidal failed state because it supports our arguments is, without a doubt, the stupidest fucking thing I've heard in quite a long time.

Reminds me, I haven't seen this one in a while. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNKSzmM44gE

Combine this idea with the idea of the pseudo landing fees being proposed at a couple of airports (can't remember which ones, last issue of Skydiving?) and we're screwed.

You mean the first one? Damn, now I have have a Styx tune running through my head. "Welcome to the "Gran dElusion" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6364507.stm

I tried. But I can't come up with a spin for this one. Economy booster? No. Free market success? No. Increased security? Benefits the poor or middle class? Nope. Hmmmm.....wait. Bush if finally proposing a way to actually pay for something and the damn libs are giving him a hard time!

Let's declare victory! If you need another straw to grasp there's a whole bunch of them at Wendy's. I swear, they're right there. Big bin, right by the ketchup.

That's quite possible too, wouldn't be the first time for him.

Please don't regret the taking or the posting of this video. Everyone's read, probably numerous times, about the effects of hypoxia but unless you've spent time in an altitude chamber you probably haven't actually seen how it can sneak up on people and to what degree it can affect them. Your video is a valuable tool in my opinion.

I swear, all that guy is interested in is cutting and running, demoralizing the troops, quitting, handing a victory to the terrorists, and undermining and bashing the president. Some patriot he is. I wonder if Hannity will tell him this next time he has him on the show

I'd probably grow the plant in my back yard and use it for tea or maybe chew on a leaf every once in a while. People get into trouble when they take the natural products and concentrate them. Barleywines are a good example.

The short answer: If "sleaze" is the charge then there's plenty in the Bush camp to go after. And Bill and Hillary didn't have anyone erasing their tracks. Hillary's charge of a vast right wing conspiracy was only wrong in that it wasn't vast. Most of the accusations and "scandals" were the result of a concerted effort to make noise and try to dig up some sort of dirt in an effort to bring Clinton down, much of which was financed by Richard Mellon Scaife and pumped through Rev. Moon's rag, the Washington Times. And yes, Cheney was running Halliburton at the time of the fraud. That they continue to do it is not necessarily his fault, it's our government's fault for re-hiring them but then again, that's typical Washington wastefulness. And I'm sorry if Hillary's assertiveness pissed off people. Big deal, some people can't stand an assertive woman. I looked at her effort to bring about health care reform as a "freebie" since, to my knowledge, First Lady is not a paying job and the dialog is an important one. And I DO think that the comparison with Laura and her past is valid because I know damn well that the witch hunt that descended on the Clinton's would have included Hillary even if she had just been an uninvolved First Lady. It was pretty much an all encompassing assault looking for anything that would stick. And for the record, I wasn't a big Clinton fan. But I grew to hate what was being done to him through the incessant character assassination attempts. It's shitty politics. And no, it's not the same thing as what some of us are doing to Bush. I dislike him for his political decisions and the subsequent fall out, not because of his diet or his hair cut, or even if he's was doing Condi in the oval office wearing nipple clamps and Bozo nose. I might draw the line however if he were to do it on the front lawn or post the video on You Tube.

Well, if that's the litmus test then we should have bombed Israel into a sheet of glass by now. what? Israel is in violation of more UN resolutions than any country in the world. edited to add: No, I don't think we should bomb them.

Well, if that's the litmus test then we should have bombed Israel into a sheet of glass by now.

Show me where I have encouraged waste OR fostered a double standard. Take your time.

Another way to think about your exit separation is not to think in time, but think distance. A quick rule of thumb would be to allow about 1000 feet of horizontal distance between groups. More if the group in front is a big way. On your next jump check your spot and spend some time in the door watching your ground track. I'm not sure where you're jumping but at this time of year in our corner of the US we get some honking winds at altitude. 30 seconds isn't uncommon.

Don't kid yourself. Both sides view the other side as the worse offender. I honestly don't think I'm kidding myself or anyone else. Sure, politics has always had a seedy, mudslinging side but the R's starting in the late 80's brought it to a new level. It was damn near elevated to an art form during the Clinton years. A couple of examples, Whitewater. A sour land deal worth about $200K occupies the news for about six years, costs the taxpayers probably $100 million and no one finds any wrong doing. Cheney runs a company that admits to defrauding the taxpayer for millions of dollars and........chirp......chirp.......chirp. Nothing. Number two: A seedy rumor gets spread around (yet another Scaife creation) that the Clintons were involved in Fosters death. That gets a fair amount of air time, still gets thrown around by some on the right, and has helped to fuel this notion that Hillary's people are hateful, vindictive and ready slice and dice any opponent. How do you think she would be portrayed if she had ACTUALLY killed someone? Would she have gotten the kid gloves that Laura did? Hell no. P.S. No, I'm not trying to stir up anything with regard to Mrs. Bush's unfortunate history. Just using it as a good example of a double standard.

I'm not so sure about that. It seems to me that the right does smearing and misinformation better than the left. Well, at least the smearing and misinformation that gets picked up and beaten to death in the "liberal" media.

I suspect if she was a Republican the exact same discussion would occur here except the poster's would be reversed. Is there a thread about Hastert getting a plane a few years ago?

You are arguing about as much if not more than anyone else about this...Just admit you are OK with the Dems spending money, but would blow a gasket if it was a Republican. Why won't you admit that the only reason we're having this discussion is because she's a Democrat?

That's another tactic used on the right to make their positions seem "mainstream". The demonize news outlets as being "ultra liberal left" when in fact they're more centrist. Liberal left media doesn't even get mentioned.

I think the motivation is less angry than that. People want to believe in "their side" SO BADLY they'll ignore any issues with their sides even when the proof is blatant, they'll hang on with fingernails and teeth to maintain the illusion. (Now the typical response to this will be: from the righties - see? look at all the rabid lefties that fit this description from the lefties - see? look at all the rabbit righties that fit this description and those that do admit it will then point to the other team and note they have no choice but to stick to their guns) But that's not the big picture. The bigger picture, and what I was trying to point out, is that the sordid, non-news character assination pieces get more coverage than real news stories. And that has been exploited heavily by the right in nearly the last two decades. Make an accusation, complete bullshit or maybe a smattering of truth but a misrepresentation of the facts, and it sticks. It gets repeated and repeated with little to no analysis in the mainstream media and turns into complete bullshit in talk radio. Then, even after the story may have been proven to be crap, like the Pelosi piece, you can count on the "Pelosi Air" references to be thrown about in media for years to come. And ultimately we're all worse off for it. We know less. Whether it's money driven, politically driven, or a combination of those and something else. We're all stupiderer in the long run. edited to add: I was going to go back and fix a spelling error, but I think I'll keep "assination". It somehow seems appropriate.

It's a vast conspiracy. It's not that vast.

Quite possibly because that even this miserable failure of a leadership could understand what would happen if we had been busted planting weapons.

Let's take a quick count. Thread about Office of Special plans creating it's own intelligence to get us into war with Iraq. 8 posts. Thread about $12 billion in cash being wasted in Iraq and subsequent baiting about other government waste. 32 posts Thread about fabricated non-story about Pelosi's flight privileges. 230 posts Yep. After 18 years of this right-wing-smear-enabled-by-complicit-media-resulting-in-dumbed-down-public crap you'd think people might notice that they're being played.