FallingOsh

in all likelihood it's both. My point is that an investigation doesn't mean that justice will be served, especially an internal investigation. Look at our own government for example if you prefer to take Israel out of the picture. Third parties can often do a better job of investigating, but that's no guarantee either. That may very well be true. My point is that this thread has gone from accusations of state sponsored mass murder to possibilities of justice being served. The gross assumptions and accusations undermine the entire notion of an investigation and justice. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

true. that why there are courts and official investigators (whether internal or external), like in any other democracy. That's the theory. In practice however, "justice" isn't always well served. So it's absolutely fact that mass murder was committed, but just a theory that investigations are taking place? Couldn't it be equally possible that the opposite is true? -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

I went back and read the articles again. I didn't see anything about an official policy of murder. The article did say Defence Minister Ehud Barak told Israel Radio that the findings would be examined seriously. "I still say we have the most moral army in the world. Of course there may be exceptions but I have absolutely no doubt this will be inspected on a case-by-case basis," he said. Who knows if a formal investigation will actually happen, but official policy is certainly not murdering civilians. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

That's quite a stretch for a BDIF. I guess there's a reason no sitting President has been on a late night variety show in decades. Maybe a little common sense would have prevented it entirely. Is the comment a big deal? I dont think so. Is it rediculous for the President to be on a comedy show making gaffes? Absolutely. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Yes, I used the word IF because it hasn't happened yet. That's the proper word for such a situation. My response was directed at Amazon's claim that this fear of a price increase is all just conservative's imagination. Obama has clearly supported such in the past and with the Dems in control of the hill, passing it throught the house and senate wouldn't exactly be a challenge. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

I'm not sure Abraham Lincoln would agree with you. The Republican party was very progressive when it was founded. It's only recently it got bogged down. ~140 years later, the GOP is the conservative party. I'm confident you knew what he meant and are just being argumentative for the sake of increasing your post #s total. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

So any new taxes or regulatios on guns and ammo are just the imagination of gun owners or store operators. I'll keep that in mind if it ever happens. You posit that most conservatives went to church this morning? Wow. Very prophetic. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Like in an election? Well, yeah, kinda. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

If Toyota and Honda can manage to find line workers who'll work without exorbitant compensation, why can't US companies? Solve those two problems and maybe the big 3 wouldn't be hurting so much. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

That could be an interesting discussion, now that the conversation has zero to do with the OP. I would claim many aspects of the government are run like a business. Others, not so much. I would also say the current government is dangerously close to disaster. Maybe running the government more like a business, where people are held accountable and fired if they aren't producing, would be a possitive approach. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

I don't think they're sinking into irrelevancy. I just think the left likes to circle jerk themselves into thinking their ideas are the only correct ones. While I agree the GOP needs a new leader and a new conservative direction, most of that article is a steaming pile of shit. McCain didn't lose the election when he selected Palin. He lost it when the economy crashed and his campaign turned into mud slinging. The bitching about bailouts is funny since it's clearly continued right into the new administration. She's right the GOP shouldn't have done it last year. The comment about the GOP betraying their fiscal ideals of small government is valid. The follow up complaint about Reagan-Bush-Bush deficits is laughable at this point. All three were recently trumped. The last paragraph about needing to look towards the middle is what got the GOP where they are. The Bush handouts and extreme growth of government are more centrists than a typical Republican President. A true conservative leader that doesn't pander to the left is the only thing that will save the GOP. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

so, you take from the poor? (a minimum of 10% you say) There's the issue of the whole discussion right there. Taking is different than giving. If someone chooses to give then that's their choice. The church doesn't demand anything. Like Tank said, the OP was a question of not wanting the government to take more under the guise of helping the needy. Tithing is a different discussion, but a valid one. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Yes, there is. It's used to run the Church and helps with the outreach programs. Before anyone goes screaming 'AH-HA,' the tithe is 10% for everyone. The well off don't pay 40% while the poor pay none. The members of the church have a direct say and participation in how the money is spent. A group of elitists 1000 miles away doesn't make the decisions. Nobody, to my knowledge, has been removed from a church or arrested for not tithing. Some tithe none. Some tithe the 10% plus thousands upon thousands to support mission trips and community projects. Again, its a focus on (drum roll) personal responsibility. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

I've read the Constitution many times, from Preamble to Amendment XXVII, and there is no mention of a free market economy, nor are there any comparisons of different economic systems in there. Furthermore, there's no mention of the need to keep government regulations to a minimum. Have you ever even read the document? It also doesn't say anything about free healthcare, medicaid, minimum wage, welfare, progessive tax systems, etc. The pursuit of happiness is different than government subsidized handouts in an attempt to make everyone happy. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

I've never once blamed him for the current financial mess. I am blaming him for the $1.75T or $1.9T or whatever it is of deficit that he's doing in his first year. I'm blaming him for calling $8 a week a reasonable tax cut while jacking up taxes for the wealthy like you wouldn't believe. That shit is his doing and your response proves my point exactly. People are using their hatred of Bush to justify that crap. The results of his first year of deficit are measurable and it is insane. Don't blindly justify everything he does just because the economy was in the shitter when he took office. The current drop in the Dow is due to a lot of things. There's no confidence in the market. There's no confidence in the banks. There's uncertainty about the talks of nationalization. 4Q losses are definitely a part, but only one part. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Decreasing income does not incur debt. Spending does. Huh? Conservatives? Wouldn't it be the other side, the ones who champion government handouts funded by the wealthy, who think money should just fall from the sky? Bitch Bitch Bitch about Bush's spending and then drop 4 years' worth of deficit in the first year. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Secrets from the enemy and secrets from allies are slightly different. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Kick all you want. You can even scream if you'd like. You could combine any 4 years from the Bush administration and it wouldn't equal Obama's first year of proposed deficit. Sooner or later Obama will have to take responsibility for his actions rather than blaming others. I'm not picking on anyone. President Obama is the one in charge. It's his responsibility. If you'd like to round up the politicians who pushed botched policy, the banks who over-extended, the thousands who lived outside their means, etc. then go ahead. You're not going to find one person or one group of people responsible for the entire mess. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

That's definitely crossed my mind, too. The problem for President Obama is that he labeled his administration the 'New Era of Responsibility.' You could make a pretty convincing argument that these back taxes are honest mistakes, but it's also a very large PR problem with repeated appointee issues like this. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

True, but the $1.9T deficit is on his shoulders. At some point it's going to become his Presidency and his responsibility. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Trying to appease everyone and pretend to be centrist is the problem. If you try to please everyone then no one is happy. They need to get back to true conservative. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Donald Trump was on this morning talking about some of the other deductions taking a hit. Contributions to charities will no longer be deductions. Sucks to be a charity that relies on large private donations. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

What's odd is the people who bitched about the Bush years and elected Obama on the promise of change are using "But the last guy did it" as a defense. But, but, but, the change is coming. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

He said his military pay check is enough to cover all of his bills. That's not living outside your means. His second job pays for the social life. If the job goes, the social life goes. That's not living outside your means. That's living responsibly. Losing the second job and sustaining the social life with credit cards would be living outside your means. Some form of protection, yes. Continual handouts from the government, no. All that does is lower society to the lowest common denominator. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Oil and votes. Really? Go ahead and google the oil import records from Iraq over the last ten or fifteen years. When you're done with that, look up who is in control of Washington. I don't think the votes argument is too solid. I'm glad you enjoyed the Hollywood version of what happened. I don't suggest basing your political or world opinions on what you see at Blockbuster. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.