FallingOsh

You brought up the third world country thing. Then, true to form, you quickly got upset when people called the BS. Now you only want to use countries with baselines you see as higher than our as examples. Define ad hominem. It's like you're complaining because our team is the worst in the league... except for the lions, the titans, the bengals, the jaguars, the chiefs, the bears, the dolphins, or the packers. You won't be happy until our baseline is the Colts, at the expense of the Patriots. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Your sig line makes it pretty evident your mind is made up and you have no interest in a true discussion. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Nope. Couldn't care less. Me calling that post an excuse for the lazy didn't have anything to do with the newly laid off or the poor. It was a response to our tax evading friend here. Sure didn't. I didn't say anything about any particular group. I posted a response to Cliffs' post. I never said anything about the poor at all. I made a comment about the lazy. You associated that with poor and ran with it. I didn't excuse anyone. I said I'm torn on unemployment benefits, if that's what you're referring to. I figured you didn't have anything convincing to say. Really? Just because you don't agree then you suddenly know me, I guess. How many time have you personally picked up kid's medical bill, painted a strangers house, taken in a homeless guy, worked at a soup kitchen, slept on a gym floor for a week to help a strange town, etc.... Advocating tax hikes for everyone but yourself does not, in any way, mean you care for others. So when you said "the polls, they are a changin" you meant polls that will happen a year from now? Holy hell Ah, but that wasn't your point. Your point was that we need to increase taxes on the wealthy to reduce the gap. It had nothing to do with the economy. ie; jealousy -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

What should I explain? What cap do you suggest putting on people? The top 1% pay more than the lower 95% combined. Why aren't the other 95% being pulled up? They already are taxed more heavily than any other group. So what? Will limiting their wealth make you feel better cause it certainly won't help anything? Well which is it, 93% or 99% and where did you get that? Why should it? The top 20% pay roughly 80% of the tax burden. Who would you tax if you brought the wealthy down to middle-class? Are you going to start taxing everyone equally? Yeah i guess we need to do that in oder to continue this line of logic. No you weren't. You're advocating the wealthy continue to be taxed as far as you can push it for the sole reason of bringing people down. Then you get touchy at the mention of a fair tax. You don't want anything close to similar. And if you think there are laws or rich corporate conspiracry preventing people from succeeding then you aren't either. We have that. Government housing, food stamps, laws preventing being turned away at hospitals, unemployment benefits, etc. The truth is you don't want a safety net. You want the baseline raised no matter what the cost. The elite do fund them. You don't care that they fund them and want to tax them even further just to bring them down a notch or two. If the elite aren't funding them then who is? It sure as shit isn't the rest of the country's taxes. Yes, quick, change the subject. Guise? So there's absolutely no concern over how to pay for it? Nope. The jealous part come from the reason you started this thread. Your 'yet another reason to tax the rich' had nothing to do with healthcare. The sole purpose was to reduce the wealth gap. Reducing the gap would do absolutely nothing more than make you feel better. That's jealousy. Nope. You're greedy because you want to further tax the rich for the purpose of bringing them down to other people's levels. You're greedy because you don't think laying the massive majority of the tax burden on the top 1% is enough. You're greedy because the billions of dollars they pay in taxes every year to fund pet projects isn't enough for you. We have a safety provided by the government and funded by the elite's taxes. But that's not enough. You want more and you want it provided at the expense of those better off than you. That's greed. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

...and try to maintain eye contact... -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

I'm sure you would honerably turn it down. Oh no ,Falling Osh.., I've got all that and more . Did you cheat, lie, take advantage of people, or game the system to get it? I guess all of that stuff only applies to other people, right? -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

I'm sure you would honerably turn it down. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Nope. I said that pitiful quote was a perfect excuse for the lazy and bitter. Nothing was said about all lazy people in America. Although I have no sympathy for the cronically lazy, you're trying to put words in my mouth. I'm actually torn on that. Have any reasonable arguments to convince me of your point of view? Yeah, I already answered that attempt to put words in my mouth. My post was a response to his quote. Oh... you didn't mean all of those other polls that go against what you're saying. I thought maybe the one about Americans being more pissed than the Bush era or the one about government doing too much might have an influence on elections. Sorry. Let's try these, then. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/generic_congressional_ballot http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/congressional_performance I finally figured out why you're always happy about tax increases. You don't care whether they help you or not, which they don't, you just want people with more than you to suffer. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

And people are free to buy or not to buy, shop around for better prices, start their own company, better their kid's situation, etc. Gee, I don't recall writing that, I believe you interpreted that in your own words. We need to tax the rich more so the gap shortens some. Shortening the gap means bringing them down. That's what you want done by taxing them more. Taxing the top 10% even more won't bring the lower 90% up. It's just a punishment suggestion. No, it's to have a society where people don't have different rules for different classes. Ok, so you're advocating the fair tax now? If Bill Gates pays 35% then everyone should, right? There are no laws against poor people working their way up. Forcing others to pull them up, or just force the wealthy down, is placing unfair laws on different classes of society. We've already established you don't want that. Ok, so we'll stop all sweeping government programs until "legitimate reasons" can be established. That solves nothing. It just proves you want to bring them down for being wealthy. That's what you say to people w/o healthcare too, pure compassion. Never said that. I said that about you wanting to tax the rich for selfish, jealous, greedy reasons. Flattering but I don't know why. I'm far from rich. It will be entertaining to relive "read my lips," however. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Excellent point. Agreed. Agreed completely on both points. First time for everything! -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Me too. Don't keep sticking your hand in my pockets and coming up with assanine reasons to further tax the rich. That's not directed at you, BTW. It's directed at the thread title. I'm gunna go ahead and say you're moving towards the deep end here. Nobody is taking your kids and making them fight anywhere. It's not even a topic of discussion in the thread. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Holy cherry-picking Batman. I said we might could agree on some things. Not 'I now believe everything you do.' I think congress loses touch with the Americans they're representing. I don't think they're all bought by corporations. The "here is where you lose me" is because his original quote was a broad sweeping statment about all rich people being dirty, lying cheats. It had nothing to do with congress or anyone in particular. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Although a tad cynical for me, we might could actually agree on some things. We do agree on some things. This is where you lose me. You're quote said the only rich people are ones who got there by taking advantage of people and gaming the system. You didn't say anything specifying congress or one particular person. You said all rich people are dirty or lucked into the money. That's crap. and does make you sound bitter. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

I said nothing about the Americans who lost their jobs. I said that worthless whining post about only rotten people being rich was a joke and an excuse. You're damn right they are. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform http://www.gallup.com/poll/123101/Americans-Likely-Say-Government-Doing-Too-Much.aspx http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/september_2009/59_say_americans_angrier_now_than_under_bush http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx And if that doesn't happen, will you get it or will you continue to defend Hopey Changey and take it out on people better off than you? -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Yes I know what it's called. I've heard it somewhere else before. Says who? Russia? Cuba? Wealth moving around happens in all societies. In capitalism it's supposed to happen naturally. In socialist countries it's government forced. That's besides the point anyway. You said we need to tax the rich to bring them down to other peoples' levels. It's not necessary to keep the country healthy. It's greed, jealousy, and bitterness of people better off than you. Would you still play the game if everytime you started winning, mom came in and gave half your money to the kid who squandered all of his? Yes, the number given is after decades of wealth disparity; it's not a new concept. You want to tax the rich more than they already are because there is a wealth disparity. Wah, life isn't fair... they have more and I want it... wahh -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Sounds like a perfect excuse for the lazy and bitter who want to punish people better off than them. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

You want to tax them to reverse them making more money than the poor? So now it isn't even an argument that we need the money to run the country. Now we just need to tax them so they'll be brought down to others' levels. So we should tax the rich more? -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Yep, too much money being printed. It's being printed to pay for more government programs that we can't afford. Government money printing and capitalism are (or should be) two seperate things. The system will carry on and people will again make money. I started investing after the market crash and have done pretty well thus far. Some people win and some people lose in a capitalist society. If people are breaking the law then they should be put in jail. Some things are already changing. Other things will change in the future. The system will change and adapt. We owe debt to ourselves? How so? -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Ok, i think you need to spend some time reading before you go lashing out at a country you clearly don't understand. It's not your fault you don't know the American tax system, but maybe you should try a little harder before making claims like this. Reading the rest of the post is a waste of time since it's based on false information like this. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

So they can look after you? How do you mean? The people who are soaking up the government handouts are going to repay them later? Or are you saying we should just provide government programs so they can eventually help me? Kinda greedy and selfish... Spending. That... and 40% of Americans don't pay income tax at all so the unemployment level is irrelevant. The progressive tax system is pushed so far up the chain that the amount being squeeezed from the country's top earners is reaching a limit. Spending is spending. If you don't have the money then you don't have the money. Unemployment doesn't have much to do with it since, again, 40% don't pay income taxes. The 'maths' after that is pretty simple. (spending > income) = deficit. The location of the spending doesn't effect the outcome of deficit. All of it? Really? Hmm. The total cost of both wars is roughly equal to the emergency stimulus pushed through earlier this year. Again, it doesn't matter where the money is spent. Deficit is still the result. So the economic meltdown was the result of the wars in the middle east? If I pay my taxes and don't see anything from it then the 'greedy cunts' to blame are the ones in government signing the budget. I assume you mean corporations... What do you consider their proper share? The federal corporate tax rate in the US is roughly 35%, making it one of the highest in the world. Tax breaks are for people who pay taxes. People in this country who don't even pay income tax can get a tax refund. How is that 'paying their share?' The tax rates and budgets in this country are not republican policies. They're government policies. Spending, which you seem to hate so much, has reached unprecedented levels in President Obama's first year. Those are democrat policies. Does it matter? No. Deficit is deficit. Being pissed at corporations (the ones footing the majority of the bill, BTW) doesn't do any good. Jacking up the taxes just pushes them overseas to countries like yours who will give them a tax break. irony... -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

So regardless of the cost of research, development, employee pay, etc you're going to just cap procedures? Maybe we should try some tort reform to fix the actual problems versus treating the symptoms, so to speak. 1. You think because they're doing well then we should just cap procedure cost and that will fix the problem? Hospitals still have expenses regardless of how much you cap their income. 2. Define 'doing well.' http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977336182 http://www.fiercehealthfinance.com/story/hospitals-see-string-bankruptcies-recent-weeks/2008-09-24 http://www.healthleadersmedia.com/content/235462/topic/WS_HLM2_HR/Hospitals-Cuts-May-Grow-as-States-Budget-Woes-Linger.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/28/hospitals-ill-from-more-b_n_153766.html -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

I bet the IRS will show up if I decide my little percentage doesn't matter enough to pay. Who are you to tell me money taken out of my paycheck doesn't matter? Really? The income taxes owed on 100k would be over $20,000. Would you mind contributing $20K to my jump fund since it really isn't that much? Ok... so 50% pay less than 4% and, according to you, everyone earning less than 100k don't contribute anything meaninful... but.... the earners over 100k are the under-taxed? What kind of backwards ass logic is that? What exactly is your definition of properly taxed if the people being taxed the most are undertaxed? -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Taking advantage of somebody? You mean like taking their money to pay for handouts? You mean making people pay their own way and the way of others? There's plenty of people being taken advantage of but people like you try to justify it by pushing some kind of contrived guilt. Couldn't agree more. 'Spread the wealth around' 'Subsidies for this and that' 'tax the wealthy (and middle class) and corporations to fund freebies' You're damn right it's greed. Greed by people who won't fend for themselves and expect the government to play Robin Hood. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Why wouldn't the corporations just pass along the tax hikes making everything more expensive? What would keep healthcare costs from continuing to increase? -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

I was a bartender for a lot of years. 100% guaranteed, without a doubt, people will drink free piss over paying for decent beer. If only we had an example involving free healthcare.... -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.