BDashe

I told this story before- but ill write and abridged version bill- I fell for the same shit as a 2 jump wonder, one of which being a tandem. drove my ass in the middle of the night to the DZ that was supposed to be skydive nashville. took me over 3 hours in snow and ice in a mustang GT with a 3.73 rear end (non car people- that is NOT snow/ice friendly). i was a little mad when i showed up and realized this place was far away, but at the same time i was thinking, well, this is skydiving, not exactly like mcdonalds or starbucks. turned out to be the best drive i ever made. There are whack advertisements for all the california dropzones- difference is- cali is a HUGE state and you dont cross state lines to get to the DZs. The only complaint i ever have noticed @ ASC was the distance to drive based on advertisements. I'm on the record prior to now saying the exact same thing. Is it shady? yeah a little bit, is it unique in the industry? not in the least. would i do it the same way? probably not, but, the way i see it is that more people have gone skydiving and gotten into the sport because of it- me included. skyride is another story though, and that is probably where your energies are best focused. I do not think the regulars on DZ.com are an accurate pool of people in this sport. Sad thing is, new people and whuffos dont know that. Overall I've noticed (and trust me, i ain't the only one) dorkzone.com attracts a certain type of jumper. That type of jumper tends to maintain heavy bias towards the accepting group's thought process without ever really thinking or caring to think for his/herself which is not so hot for ASC's public image. Yeah, this is my opinion on the site's demographics, but with that in mind I'll keep an eye out for shit that is important to me to shed different light from a different angle than is usually found here. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

True, I've only been around for 5 of em. The difference between me and the rest of you is i keep personal feelings to a minimum. Sure, I defend my friends and the DZ; but on fact based grounds and in an effort to keep the focus on the skyride issue which is what the thread is about- not bias against competing DZs, disagreement over boogie themes, or hatred towards individuals. I may be newer to the issue than some, but I've got more experience than plenty of others as well as a different perspective than the angry mob of dorkzone.commers you associate with. Seems only fair and just to get a different perspective in the mix, EVEN IF IT ISN'T ONE YOU AGREE WITH. Refresh me on the forum rules, but i don't think it states anywhere that I'm not allowed to dispute an argument or express my own opinion. Further, there are several different people on 'your side' that have noted they appreciate my angle, even if they disagree. I guess you are too seasoned on the matter to be included in that crowd, since you clearly are the God of the skyride debate. Lastly, I'm not here to change your mind, or anyone I debate with. That is like talking religion. People unfamiliar with the issue should be able to see more than what is projected in the circle jerk mob mentality that are the .00001% of jumpers (or people that have made their 2 annual skydives to consider themselves jumpers) that post regularly here. I want facts on the table, not wildly bias hearsay, maliciously aimed at non-guilty and frankly, irrelevant parties to the topic. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

catch yourself up on the last 10 pages of the thread, it's all fleshed out for you. As i said, keep picking apart my posts to benefit your agenda. Hopefully any neutral parties will read them in their entirety and make their own judgements. Nutz- youre a few years late on your popcorn statement, but welcome. How is everything going back there near the millenium? FYI- avoid the twin towers, rumor is they're gonna get attacked. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

That isn't what I am saying at all. I dont have a prob with B & C @ all, many of you do. Their business choices with skyride, however, are completely independent of the staff that works at ASC the dropzone which is operated in an ethical manner, and filled with good, moral people and fun jumpers... like me!!! Now, if a DZ opened right there? Id jump where ever my buddies were jumping cuz i prefer social skydives. in all honesty, I'd probably alternate between the DZs to get the best of both worlds as I'm sure i could get along with both parties of people. As i said, I don't care what skyride does, all i give a sh*t about is ASC- and they aren't doing anything wrong despite being labled otherwise. I'm just clarifying when mislabeled. If they took my jump tickets and then refused to let me jump, I'd go somewhere else. That doesn't happen, nor anything like it, so I will still jump there. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Here is a pic of me on a safire2 159 loaded @ 1.5 on an almost no wind day (canopy is for sale to anyone interested!!! ). I am now on my third safire (a 149), you really have to be sure you finish the flare on these canopies. This pic was a straight in landing, little wind, couple steps to come to a stop, nothing too extreme. note how low my hands are to finish out the flare on the canopy. Cool canopies to learn to swoop on too

Highlighted in bold is exactly the B.S. I'm talking about. Additionally, we can debate just the same (and we do) that in fact- YOU are the one(s) that don't get it. Makeithappen- thanks for fleshing it out again

Yeah- appendix went on me. didnt burst but i was vomiting roughly 20-30 times per hour (mostly dry heaving) for something like 10 hours before they got enough anti nausea stuff in me to slow it down. try sitting still in an MRI when you need to puke repeatedly- that was epic fun. Ive never felt so weak and helpless in my life. Not to mention no one knew i was in the ER and my cell phone got no service. Was like food poisoning on steroids, how do i know? 3.5 weeks after the appendectomy i got food poisoning! I was freakin out, thought the doc might have left some clippers in there!

Highlighted in bold is exactly the B.S. I'm talking about. Additionally, we can debate just the same (and we do) that in fact- YOU are the one(s) that don't get it. Makeithappen- thanks for fleshing it out again

what you say makes perfect sense, as does heatmiser. And that philosophy of voting with your dollars is totally cool! I have no problem with that whatsoever. A few things come up here every so often that are not simply voting with dollars. When, people start trashing the DZ/jumpers/staff and lumping them all into a pile of shit, I have a problem. When it comes to this thread, everyone has a hair trigger, admittedly myself included. I think certain distinctions need to be made in order for the discussion to be fair. With that in mind, i'll sit back and point out when something is not at all skyride related, even when some people try their damndest to make the connection just so they push their agenda. Voting with your dollars and making slanderous and outrageous remarks about a DZ, however, are two separate concepts. I understand if you feel that shutting the DZ down (or trying to) somehow is winning a battle in the war then fine, just beware of other wars you could start from it that may not be worth it. That isn't a threat at all, just stating a hypothetical. And, if the goal is to ruin the DZs, go ahead and try, just do it legally and fair as you all are asking skyride to conduct business. If you (collective you) don't, or false things are being said or implied in order to reach the ends (shutting the DZs down), that is where I will try to correct. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Another Op Ed from WSJ that makes lots of sense to me! D*mn logic! http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124277530070436823.html main points: 1) Governments are run by politicians, not businessmen 2) Politicians need headlines. 3) Governments use other people's money 4) Government does not tolerate competition 5) Government enterprises are almost always monopolies and thus do not face competition at all. 6) Successful corporations are run by benevolent despots 7) Government is regulated by government. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

I'm curious as to how much the owners actually run the DZ. Do they manage it themselves or do they just happen to own it, but have a DZM run the show. If it is a DZM, how cloesely associated is he/she with Skyride? I'm just curious. I don't have a dog in this fight, but this thread is interesting reading. edit: I can't type very fast on the mini...Question was answered while I was trying to ask it day to day ops are not run by the owners of ASC, despite what was implied in bold above. It is managed by a DZM that is a skydiver, has a PST card and such. Videographers fly video, TIs throw drogues, packers pack parachutes, AFFIs teach newbies, S&TA keeps bad things from happening... seems pretty fishy doesn't it! Almost as if they are posing as a legit DZ... as far as i know they are all employed by ASC, not skyride. I just fun jump there when i can, never been employed. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Managed by different people, different staff, different stucture, different organization. You fail, sir. Profit goes to the same place. Anyone that has been to ASC in the last 4 years can attest it is business as usual for a DZ. Personal issues with owners and individual staffers doesn't mean the business is bad. That is personal, leave it as such. That's what I'm deciphering here. edit- one can argue 'well since the profit goes to the same place, the business is just as corrupt!' The simple truth is, that isn't the case. Anyone who hasn't been there, go check it out. don't give em your business if you don't want to, but check it out and tell me what they are doing wrong. I'll bet you find nothing abnormal. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

I farted on you when you kicked me! So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

We know youre one of the most intimately involved in the law suit, here's your big d*ck award. We know you want skyride and all affiliates to burn. I'm pointing out where bias and contempt take over. Billv- you're right, my buddies don't do a great job putting a clean face on ASC- unfortunately you guys don't see things from their angle. They are the ones being attacked for ridiculous reasons, tied to something they're not even involved with. So, they'll counter with equally ridiculous antics- which crack me up personally and is one of the many reasons i spend so much money to get back there. I'm not saying that is the best way to handle the situation, or even a good way. It is certainly entertaining though. I'll continue to do what I do when i feel like chiming in, they'll do what they do, and undoubtedly you and the rest of the angry mob will continue on that destructive path as well. I try and pick up the pieces you leave in your path that I don't think should have been broken in the first place. That's what the forums are here for anyway, right? foster differing opinions?

Bill- I never defended skyride, in all my posts i have not once tried to justify what they do. I have said i understand where they come from, how they do it, and why they do it, but i have never said i support em. I have said I don't care, and still don't really. I also have said, despite you thinking i cant comprehend it, that i understand where, how and why you guys insist on attacking ASC. I just, clearly and vehemently, disagree with it. I very easily lump you into the same tactical category as skyride for doing so- by you all doing shady, bordering illegal sh*t to push your agenda and achieve your ends. I also have never said that 'there is no connection between ASC and skyride.' I have identified it numerous times. What you seem to miss, or try to make others believe, is that by ruining ASC and AST you have a victory against skyride. If you got your way, all you're doing is hurting the skydiving community. Sure, you take some money out of a couple guys pockets, but nothing happens to skyride, and you successfully p*ssed people off, as well as exacerbate an already touchy situation. I post here, not to try and change all your minds, but in case someone new to the scanario, or the press, or whoever decides to spend the time reading through the threads for info; they will get another more accurate side to the story. You can cut up, disect, and edit my posts all you want to fit your agenda, at the end of the day the truth of the situation doesn't change. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Bill, youre still scrounging. learn to admit your off once in a while, sheesh. you had a poor analogy, were called on it, two much better and more accurate ones from supporters on different sides of the issue were demonstrated, move on. Everyone knows you don't like skyride, just as they know I post to save face for ASC when you all try to drag em through the mud. Don't worry- even though you missed the dart board this time, no one thinks any different of you! So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

I never said it was spot on, just more accurate than Bill's, as yours is not spot on, but more accurate than bill's as well. skyride is not in the skydiving business, they do referral sales (like a gateway to skydiving...with red tape), they are not competitors like sam's and walmart could be considered, which is what I was referring to in my analogy if you read it again. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Actually it is not at all like that since ASC is not skyride by brand, business, or service. That is the thought process that you all are pushing, knowing full well the distinction, but as long as you screw the 2 people you REALLY don't like, you're happy to spread as much slander as possible to reach those ends. Sucks that it has gotten to that point- you're willing to try to prevent damage to the community by doing exactly that and hurting a sector of the community. You're all welcome to do what you wish of course, so long as no one sues you for libel. A more accurate scenario bill, is that everyone here has a preferred grocery store, but you decide to protest Albertson's because you didn't like the way Cerberus was having Mervyn's (a clothing retailer) refer some of it's customers to competitive grocery stores. Cerberus very well may have taken advantage of some of Mervyn's referrals. So sure, reducing revenue to the grocery store doesn't make the P.E. happy, but you just p*ssed off everyone that enjoys shopping at Albertson's, as well as damaged their reputation on potentially fradulant accusations in order to hurt their revenues. That is where you start to walk a legal boundary, and it is up to albertson's or Cerberus to decide come after you. edit: cerberus being a private equity firm owning both Mervyn's and Albertson's. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

That loud "whooooosh" over your head is the clue that you are clueless. Nobody is buying what you are trying to sell. "whooooosh" Recently, my respect and esteem for a particular DZO took a leap off the launch pad when she told me she rejected an approach asking her to take SR certificates. That whoosh you hear is just the bias swirling in a hurricane of anger, jealousy, frustration, and ignorance above your head. skyride's practices suck, ASC is only guilty by association. Their practices and operations are frequently above average compared to the industry. Sadly, you'd all happily knife em just cuz you dont like some of em on a personal level, or those they associate with for unrelated, yet admittedly wrong, practices. If anyone feels like making some skydives (can be a strange concept for some of you i know), discussing in person, or drinking some beer- I'll be @ ASC Saturday-Monday. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Funjumper- the article actually addresses many of these items if you care to read the whole thing. Also, was it quade or kelp that pointed out Laffer? Man, he has rendered himself so insignificant that they have him commentating on cnn, fox (admittedly bias), and several other news stations several times per month. Wow, the guy really doesn't know anything... so insignificant that even the liberal media pays him for his thoughts and ideas. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Hysterical! ha ha ha! And exactly on topic and very relevant.

I'm very familiar with the prisoner's dilemma, and i really dont think that applies accurately here. If anything you have it backwards as the ones being taken advantage of decide to scale the wall and leave the torment behind. Point is, various states are bleeding their rich to suck as much money from them as possible- so the rich people eventually exercise their right to choose where they live and leave. They are content to pay taxes and contribute a fair share to the community/society, but there is a boiling point- sometimes you just have to say enough is enough and make sure to protect your own family and everything ya worked for- while contributing to a new community that appreciates your presence/contributions more. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

interesting case study-like article here with some factoids- http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124260067214828295.html Couple excerpts: "...we found that from 1998 to 2007, more than 1,100 people every day including Sundays and holidays moved from the nine highest income-tax states such as California, New Jersey, New York and Ohio and relocated mostly to the nine tax-haven states with no income tax, including Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire and Texas. We also found that over these same years the no-income tax states created 89% more jobs and had 32% faster personal income growth than their high-tax counterparts. Did the greater prosperity in low-tax states happen by chance? Is it coincidence that the two highest tax-rate states in the nation, California and New York, have the biggest fiscal holes to repair? No. Dozens of academic studies -- old and new -- have found clear and irrefutable statistical evidence that high state and local taxes repel jobs and businesses..." "...We believe there are three unintended consequences from states raising tax rates on the rich. First, some rich residents sell their homes and leave the state; second, those who stay in the state report less taxable income on their tax returns; and third, some rich people choose not to locate in a high-tax state. Since many rich people also tend to be successful business owners, jobs leave with them or they never arrive in the first place. This is why high income-tax states have such a tough time creating net new jobs for low-income residents and college graduates..." So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Hitting a planet at a very high rate of speed. good thing you'll have 2 parachutes! Chance of death or permanent injury doing one tandem is going to be around 1/500,000. Look up stats for other stuff, and decide if it is worth it or if it is selfish. I'll start you off: chance of getting hit by lightning in a given year- 1/700,000, in a lifetime 1/5000. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Tell Sunman Brett says whats up and I hope to catch him next weekend @ the death star up the street. Hope the boogie is fun this weekend!!!