BDashe

Great! I'm not talking about 10,000 ft, im talking about break off. Maybe that can be a third thread- hybrid rules. I've heard multiple theories on hybrids and hybrid cluster f*cks, many contradicting. The OP is asking about vertical break offs while on different levels, I'm addressing vertical break offs while on different levels, that's it. I don't care how you get in that situation, these are tools that can be used if put in a funky scenario like that. There are more factors that lead up to varying levels on these jumps that others have addressed. You're on a vertical skydive, at break off, on 2+ levels. I suggest to have a few of these tools in your tool box. They've saved my ass, i've seen other asses saved using them. BUT, who the hell am I? At the end of the day- f*ck me, f*ck bill, f*ck wendy, f*ck you, f*ck everybody- ask your local 'pro' who knows more than all of us on the subject. Be safe, Brett So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

I feel like this thread should be split into 2 seperate threads. new jumpers could start to confuse belly rules with freefly. You guys are completely correct when it comes to belly ways. And you are correct, hybrids are belly skydives until they go vertical, BUT THEY DO GO VERTICAL. It is a great way to combine freefliers and belly fliers, or even get low time jumpers in on a more advanced skydive with high time jumpers. may not be the BEST idea, but it happens, semi-frequently. often, hybrids go vertical towards the bottom end of the jump and levels get f*cked up, this is probably what the OP is talking about. On vertical skydives, especially when learning, levels get broken up. the most important skill, IMO, to learn while freeflying is back flying. levels are reduced when corking to back vs. belly, i can fall @ 200 mph on my back, in control. I can fall at 110 mph on my back, in control. That speed variation is needed in vertical flight. Vertical break offs are completely different than belly-only. Bill is right, back flying/tracking can kill on big way belly. the exact same skill saves lives on ANY vertical skydive. The OP seems to me to be asking about what to do on a skydive that is vertical when it goes bad- WHICH HAPPENS when you learn to freefly. for vertical flight and vertical break offs: backflying, back tracking, and barrel rolls are vital skills to have, period. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

can someone point out belly/big way belly in there to me? So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

well then, it's a good thing i wasn't talking about big way belly is it? as i stated, freefly and tracking. I made the freefly notes because the OP was talking about freefly and hybrid jumps NOT belly which has a different set of rules. take a look at the recent 108 way h/d record, count the back trackers @ break off, then the belly trackers... So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

I kind of have to disagree with you on this point. Maybe for a low time jumper this could potentially be valid, someone with little backfly experience, where misternatural could fall into that category. Maybe that's what you were intending. I think those are very important skills to learn and be comfortable with as someone's jumping progresses. I've been in a situation more than once where a barrel roll potentially saved disaster- especially true on zoo-type dives mixing decent freeflyers with new ones.I fall towards the latter category. Not that I have all the experience in the world, but what i have learned thus far is for freefly jumps- learning to backtrack well so you can see above/around as well as not cork at break off which can create multiple levels is imperative, barrel rolls with a quick pause for a scan on tracking and zoo dives (as described by OP) can absolutely avoid close calls or worse. Maybe I'm the only one that thinks this, but from my experience, I've seen these practices in action and working. Now, this SHOULD NOT be the only safe practice, i agree with pretty much everything else that has been stated so far. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Jeffro Cisco MX Halsey TJ Landgren ... My red helmet... 8^) So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIgVi6Z9NGc youtube link So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

www.guitarhero.com What's up nor cal?!!! So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

I have a secret shah... there are some not-so-happy things out there, it is rarely a fair place, and people are @$$holes. If you happen to be one that can't deal with real life, you may want to reach out to a non-public forum with less @$$holes and more sympathy. Now kick yourself in the nuts, it'll make VB happy, someone somewhere probably thinks you deserve it, and it'll momentarily take your jaded mind off your jaded pain and temporarily relieve you of your jaded view on a jaded life that is jading the universe through your jaded eyes. and to stay on topic, my day was average, some good, some neutral, some bad. beer o clock in T minus 2 hours, it will end well

Pilot- Boring sabre2- openings blow and boring safire2- generally good openings, fun, swoopable, average flare. I'm on my third safire2, will be going to an xfire2 in about a year or 2-300 more jumps. Never been a fan of PD except their reserve. Always kick myself in the forehead with their openings and the glide sucks balls compared to Icarus. Remember though- when choosing a canopy the most important aspect is to choose fast colors. If you end up with slow colors, you WILL NOT have any fun, and your swoops will be ruined. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Spose it's tough to 'get into' sex if you're asexual. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Holy Hijack batman! ha ha ha! Lost- clearly your name is well earned, ha ha ha! LP- when i saw the pic, that was my first thought 'i think i can still eat that...' Again, condolences Ms. H So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Saw this in the BASE forums, thought it appropriate to be posted in these forums out of respect for LisaH, I'm sorry for your loss(es). http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1209638/Scientists-baffled-suicidal-cows-throw-cliff-Switzerland.html So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Doooood! you're totally right, my bad- Garfield.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125145118456766283.html Ahmadinejad is now arresting everyone from the opposing party, calling them the 'enemy.' Also, apparently any torture they have faced in prison were from Iran's enemies, their gov't had no involvement. Not sure how your enemies can abuse your prisoner's in your own prisons... A$$hole. I honestly do not know/forgot/didn't pay close enough attention- what is the current administrations thoughts on stuff like this, or Iran in general? So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

I'll try to keep this short- this is in resposne to your response to my first response, ha ha ha! So, I do agree that scahill believes in what he is doing, but i think it is just because he doesn't like blackwater because he hates war and profit from war. I think he is just trying to find as many rumors as he can and try to pass them off as fact to further his agenda/make money himself which ironically indirectly allows him to profit from war as well. I still find it difficult to believe that Prince is a crusader. I think he is a devout christian that has expert knowledge of guerilla warfare. I do not see a connect between the two. I think that can be said about the majority of our men and women on the front lines- they have strong religious beliefs and are soldiers, but they arent crusaders. I do not know much of CFI or FRC, but I don't see anything that links those to being a crusader. from what i found, SFI provides aid to persecuted churches around the world, and FRC looks like a christian lobbying group- pro life and such. Personally I am an atheist, but I'm not against people having the right to believe in what they want. I think the whole Bush cr*p of talking to god and jesus was terrifying, i hate that about the right in general. I may never understand how someone can have those beliefs, but we do have freedom of religion in this country. I think the lefties and anti-war people are sensationalizing Prince's beliefs to further their own agendas. Scahill is the tip of the spear for them, using whatever he possibly can to scare people into hating Xe and Prince. Prince, to me, is a Christian, a warrior, and a capitalist. Now I can see how one may try to connect all three in reverse order- a capitalist with the means to impose his beliefs around the world- but from what I have read he isn't that stupid and it wouldn't last if he, in fact, was that insane. Xe is a scary organization because of the power they possess with so few people. When they make a mistake it is heard around the world, Prince is a smart guy, he knows mistakes are costly to his business. His business couldn't survive as a crusading organization. So, with what I have read, seen, and researched on Xe/blackwater and Prince- my conclusion is he is a businessman, the king of the dirty work that sometimes, has to be done. Lot's of people refuse to accept that last part and will do whatever they can to stop it. Oh, I'm not offended by you agreeing that i have a moral flexibility, i said it ha ha ha! i think after some of my travels around the world i think i have a more realistic view of humanity, where one may try and be idealistic and sugar coat or find the good, i believe i see reality. some people need that hope, be it through religion/faith or some other form of coping mechanism when they see or experience bad things, I don't. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

you do realize that means the 'cost' of war goes up? All the libs out there would p*ss and moan that we have too much military spending. The contractors are a cheaper option despite getting paid more in salary because A. they're contractors- they get paid for a job and it is done, no 4+ year committments with all the costs that go along with it. Think about it- you have a Navy SEAL, ranger, SF guy that does one or two tours, but he trained for 3 years, and may not do another one for two years or more, but you're paying him for training, food, housing, benefits... the entire time B. They have very little red tape to slow the process down. Example: Blackwater airlifts cost a very small fraction of what our government's do simply because they do it in a much more efficient manner with very few hands involved. C. They get little to no benefits because they are contractors. $600 a day is a bargain. I'm sure there are a lot of soldiers that don't want to sign up for another 5 year term, but may want to either make a quick buck, or do another tour. Why not get paid a chunk of change to do that tour without the long term committment? the money is good, but there are PLENTY more deciding factors for a lot of these guys than just money, I'm sure it is just the icing on the cake. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

can you do it for $182 ($252 with pack jobs), starting at 9, with a lunch break and be done at 4? So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

I've read the entire thread, I'll try and tie my post back to the OP. i find these private security companies fascinating, esp. with the recent rise of their usage by the US. It is one hell of a fine line these guys are walking. With that in mind, of all the articles i've read on blackwater specifically, there are nearly none that bring any factual substance against the organization. Lot's of accusations, but really not a whole lot of proof. Now, i don't think they are entirely innocent, a lot of fucked up shit occurs during wartime. Personally, i view it as collateral damage, maybe i have more moral flexibility than others. I think from our end, we are the least 'guilty' we have ever been during war; from a US armed forces stand point, and private security standpoint. when you think back to less than 100 years ago in major battles how we have progressed in this uglier yet still necessary side of humanity, our 'intelligent' weapons, medical advances, ROE, and discipline have vastly improved- yet you can never please the nancy sheehans, ever. my guess is some of our regular troops are guilty of similar crimes as blackwater. the private security forces seem to draw more attention because there IS less accountability, and it is a secret world of scary people that we just dont know much about, nor are allowed to know. Because of those factors, the pacifists and anti-war people are trying everything to hang blackwater and use them as the scapegoat, or poster child, for their own personal anti-bad stuff efforts. They do what they can to make mountains out of mole hills, as they get paid to. I think Jeremy Scahill is a sensationalist pussy, the youtube link is an interview on the show of a person who is probably one of scahill's heroes, Bill Maher. If you look at the people this guy associates himself with, it's not hard to realize he brings ratings cuz he has done the newest research on the sexiest topic of the moment. Obviously they'll pimp him for everything he is worth to them, and scahill will publicize his rumor filled, overly bias book for money. after watching numerous interviews on youtube where he pushes his books, you can almost see him have an orgasm every time he gets to say one of his tag lines- like erik prince being a christian crusader, he relishes the the mistakes his 'enemy's' make and loves the fact that because we live in this country, they really can't do much to stop him from shouting whatever he wants from the roof tops. I think prince is a crusader as much as Obama is a communist Nazi. Realistically, though i dont agree with very much of left wing movement, i know obama isnt a communist in the eastern european sense of the word. Prince was a navy SEAL and created an organization that allows him to sell those skill sets- something that really hasnt been done before. It used to be you could only transition to law enforcement, which is a far cry from being a SEAL. He found a market for those unique trade skills and is doing a hell of a job selling it. There will be growing pains, but they'll get it figured out, and the haters will still continue to hate. this was longer than i expected to write... -Brett edit: by only transition into law enforcement, i meant with some kind of parallel to a combat type position in the civilian world. obviously soldiers are fully capable/successful in all walks of life. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3655231;search_string=Kay%20Jewelers;#3655231 So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

In all fairness, the kittens had an equal opportunity to survive. They failed to capitalize on their cuteness to get humans (a private security organization) to protect them despite the option being there. They did not utilize the unfair advantage they possess in that they are born with nine lives. Despite having the ability to 'always land on their feet,' clearly, (statistic taken from previous poster) at least one fifth are entirely too lazy to make an effort to get on their feet. Therefore, it is by choice these kittens lay down and die once their funding from the government (animal shelter) has run out. I believe there is a good example of a now-fat-cat making it big in this world coming from nothing- heathcliff. He survives on a couch eating lasagna all day, livin the american dream. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Bill, I believe there are a couple other threads discussing no cut Hop n' Pops and a tailstrike incident by a darwin award winner. I'm too lazy to search for them, though it is a great function I've been told. As a reminder, the thread topic is where are cheap jumps at a safe place. Can anyone beat $13 in Lodi or $17 in Byron? Both places are safe with loads of talent IMO. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Slow.

Ok, so not me... My buddy (also a skydiver) just found this gem. Hope it isnt a repost. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=ArANmI0Jh9b7MBEfvXvI.WUjzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20070131105501AARVEcS some of the responses are kinda funny. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

i had a similar experience in high school. lived about 15 miles from school, leaving the parking lot i 'accidentaly' got a little sideways in my mustang GT and gunned through second to the speed limit. never sped, but definitely could have gotten exhibition of speed i spose, or wreckless even. there was a cop right there on a corner obscured by a tree, he followed me to within about 300 feet of my house, full 15 miles. Dont know if he actually saw my antics or just heard em. I wasnt too thrilled to have this guy follow me all the way back and through about 3 turns in my residential neighborhood. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983