jcd11235

You're still making that same sorry, false claim without any supporting evidence? Why worry about facts, when you can blame everything on Clinton instead, right? Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

I noticed there was absolutely nothing in your article to support your previous claim: "Forcing banks and loan companies to give loans to people whose only source of income is welfare and public assistance is another way of preying on dumb people with the offer of a "free" house." Why am I not surprised? Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

That would indeed be a bad idea. That's probably why banks and lending institutions have never been forced to offer such loans. Where did you get the idea they had? Ask Bill Clinton Can I assume by your flippant response that you really don't have any legitimate reasons to believe your proposed scenario has any basis in reality? Or, are you just trying to build the suspense before offering some supporting evidence? Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

To be fair, that might indicate that McCain is worse than Bush. Or, alternatively, it might only indicate that those who voted for Bush in the primaries or the general election exercised extremely bad judgement. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

What, specifically, was Dr. Paul right about? Links to the relevant claims would be appreciated. If anything, this financial crisis offers further evidence that Austrian economic theory is not valid in the real world. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

That would indeed be a bad idea. That's probably why banks and lending institutions have never been forced to offer such loans. Where did you get the idea they had? Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

The problem has as much (if not more) to do with what Wall Street did with those mortgages as it does with the mortgages themselves. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Mr. Helling is extremely misleading with this statement. Mortgage backed securities always include mortgages on properties that will end up in foreclosure. The government is not proposing to buy mortgages on foreclosed properties. The bailouts do include loans to companies that invested too heavily in mortgage backed securities. The payments on most of the associated mortgages are being made by the borrowers. Still, any interest in those securities the government ends up with are due to those securities being held by the companies the government offers bailout loans to, not because the government is looking to invest in mortgages on properties in foreclosure. By Mr. Helling's logic, purchasing stock in a company that owns property in Florida with a retention pond is the same as investing in mosquitoes. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Why? That is not what is being talked about here. You want to talk about that stop derailing this thread and start your own. Mortgages are what we are talking about, if these istruments are part of that then they got the same starting place too You really don't understand, do you? CRA banks were less likely to resell the mortgages. They were more careful with the underwriting of their mortgages, in order to ensure that borrowers were capable of paying back the loans. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Project much? Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

I see that you didn't read the study to which my post linked. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Dewey defeats Truman! Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

The government didn't cause the crisis. It's just a natural cycle caused by the decrease in solar winds. Didn't you read the NASA report? Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

I doubt he can provide such evidence. From The Community Reinvestment Act: A Welcome Anomaly in the Foreclosure Crisis: "Our study concludes that CRA Banks were substantially less likely than other lenders to make the kinds of risky home purchase loans that helped fuel the foreclosure crisis. (emphasis in original) Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

To be fair, the debt isn't worthless. The majority of the mortgages will be paid off by borrowers. However, the foreclosure rate of sub-prime mortgages is higher than the rate expected from traditional mortgages, making the associated mortgage backed securities higher risk and, presumably, less capable of producing the expected cash flow. In the short term, the securities will likely lose money. In the long term, however, they are likely to show a profit. I don't think a bailout alone will help in the long term. More regulation (more accurately repealing deregulation legislation) is necessary to avoid more of the same in the future. The companies receiving the loans will need to be run with a priority of long term going concern, rather than shareholder profits. Additionally, current shareholders need to suffer losses before government/taxpayer shareholders. Additionally, any executives that violated the law during their tenure need to be aggressively prosecuted. That should send a message to other corporate executives that abusing their positions will not be tolerated. The same should apply to any lawmakers (regardless of their party affiliation) who acted on the wrong side of the law w/r/t to corporate interests. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

It sounds like you are confusing GLBA with CRA. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Care to name them, or are you just parroting McCain's misleading talking points? From Obama's Fannie Mae 'Connection': The Obama campaign last night issued a statement by Raines insisting, "I am not an advisor to Barack Obama, nor have I provided his campaign with advice on housing or economic matters." Obama spokesman Bill Burton went a little further, telling me in an e-mail that the campaign had "neither sought nor received" advice from Raines "on any matter." From Obama and McCain both have ties to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac: A former member of Barack Obama’s VP search team, James A. Johnson, served as chairman of Fannie Mae. Although the Obama campaign doesn’t take contributions from lobbyists, it has received significant donations from both companies’ employees and PACs. John McCain’s connections to the two mortgage companies are more numerous. His campaign manager, Rick Davis, headed the Homeownership Alliance, an advocacy group for the two lenders. His close adviser, Charlie Black, is a long-time lobbyist whose firm represented Freddie Mac. Two of McCain’s bundlers, supporters who help raise large amounts of money for the campaign, have ties to Fannie Mae. Robert H. Holt is a lobbyist for the firm, and Wayne Berman is managing director of Ogilvy Government Relations, which also represents the company. A third McCain bundler, Geffrey T. Boisi, is a director of Freddie Mac From McCain Transition Head Lobbied for Freddie Mac Before Takeover: The lobbying firm of the man Republicans say John McCain has chosen to begin planning a presidential transition earned more than a quarter of a million dollars this year representing Freddie Mac, one of the companies McCain blames for the nation's financial crisis. Timmons & Co., whose founder and chairman emeritus is William Timmons Sr., was registered to lobby for Freddie Mac from 2000 through this month, when the federal government took over both Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. From McCain's Fannie and Freddie Connections: Aquiles Suarez, listed as an economic adviser to the McCain campaign in a July 2007 McCain press release, was formerly the director of government and industry relations for Fannie Mae. The Senate Lobbying Database says Suarez oversaw the lending giant's $47,510,000 lobbying campaign from 2003 to 2006. And other current McCain campaign staffers were the lobbyists receiving shares of that money. According to the Senate Lobbying Database, the lobbying firm of Charlie Black, one of McCain's top aides, made at least $820,000 working for Freddie Mac from 1999 to 2004. The McCain campaign's vice-chair Wayne Berman and its congressional liaison John Green made $1.14 million working on behalf of Fannie Mae for lobbying firm Ogilvy Government Relations. Green made an additional $180,000 from Freddie Mac. Arther B. Culvahouse Jr., the VP vetter who helped John McCain select Sarah Palin, earned $80,000 from Fannie Mae in 2003 and 2004, while working for lobbying and law firm O'Melveny & Myers LLP. In addition, Politico reports that at least 20 McCain fundraisers have lobbied for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, pocketing at least $12.3 million over the last nine years. For years McCain campaign manager Rick Davis was head of the Homeownership Alliance, a lobbying association that included Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, real estate agents, homebuilders, and non-profits. According to Politico, the organization opposed congressional attempts at regulation of Fannie and Freddie, along the lines of what John McCain is currently proposing. In his capacity of president of the group, Davis went on record in 2003 and insisted that no further reform of the lenders was necessary, in contradiction to his current boss's sentiments. "[Fannie and Freddie] are subject to an innovative and stringent risk-based capital stress test," Davis wrote. "The toughest in the financial services industry." Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Nearly everyone who understands economic policy at all disagrees with you. Right. The corporations lobbied Congress to have the rules changed, and then participated willingly under the new rules given. Those new rules, i.e. deregulation, need to be rescinded. The government caused this. The government set the financial sector up for failure by repealing important provisions of the Glass-Steagall Act, and thus share responsibility. But, make no mistake, it was poor corporate leadership that caused this. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Specifically, the government's actions towards deregulation of the financial industry played a huge role. Of course, it's hard to believe any assertions that corporations did not play a major role in that via lobbying and campaign contributions. I suspect one would be hard pressed to find any prominent (national) politicians that are not tied in any way to key players of corporations that are failing or have failed within the past ten years. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Under normal circumstances, I would agree. However, these investments currently are bargains, provided current management methods are abandoned in favor of responsible behavior. That's not to say I like the idea of having to bail out major players of the financial sector, just that it appears to be the least painful option. It's something of a catch 22, really. If we bail the companies out, then we send the wrong message to corporations regarding their behavior. OTOH, if we don't bail them out, and simply allow them to fail, we can't hold them responsible for the behavior that caused their financial woes to begin with, with the possible exception of a few individuals. Whether or not the bailout loans are approved by Congress, Congress needs to make a priority of passing legislation to prevent this again, including, but not necessarily limited to, the repeal of GLBA. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

I fixed that for you. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

They will still have to take their losses. Bailout loans won't change that. However, with the bailouts, the companies likely will not fail due to those losses, which would have more dire consequences not only for those companies, but for the entire economy. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Most any legislation could be improved (or made worse) with modifications. SOX is not likely to be an exception. However, what has been proposed is to remove some of the most important parts of SOX, in order to allow executives to misrepresent a corporation's investment holdings' values to shareholders. That would not solve the current problems, and would almost certainly make things worse. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

That's like claiming that since murders still occur despite legislation that makes murder illegal, we should just legalize murder. Personally, I disagree, but I'm one of those pesky liberals who believes that sometimes some government intervention is appropriate. That doesn't change the fact that the companies utilized lax accounting regulations to deceive their stockholders. The government deregulated the industry enough to allow that to happen, so yes, the government should do what it can to limit the repercussions to the economy, repercussions that would otherwise be suffered by people who didn't take out sub-prime mortgages or invest in companies or funds that held securities backed by such mortgages. Consumers can pay big via bailout loans or bigger via natural market corrections. It's the only credible solution anyone has yet proposed. Nor do I, but it appears to be the best of the possible solutions, all of which are bad. At least bailout loans offer the reasonable possibility of returning a profit. There's no way around involving Congress. That's simply how the federal government works, as outlined by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution. I do think that reputable economists with strong mathematics backgrounds should be consulted by Congress. I disagree. The government helped cause this with deregulation legislation. The government can help in the short term with bailout loans, and can provide the necessary regulation to prevent this from happening again in the long term, at least until the lessons of history are once again forgotten, and too much deregulation occurs once more. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Yep. They got caught and called on it, hence the restatements. That's evidence in favor of SOX, not against it. I don't suppose you recall all the people who lost money (some of them losing substantial retirement funds) when they failed? Do you think those investors would have invested had the companies utilized honest accounting practices? Unfortunately, their accounting practices were largely within the constraints of GAAP, highlighting the necessity for stricter accounting regulations. How do you suggest such adjustments be made after mortgages are rolled up and resold? It's not a practical solution, unless the mortgages aren't resold. If that is the case, there's no need to change any regulations to allow such restructuring. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!