DaVinci

They also have a higher standard when using that force. And you are just ignoring that simple fact that since this was a cop, SYG does not in anyway apply.

False. One is a reward for spending money, the other is a punishment for NOT spending money. Can't get much simpler than that. If you STILL choose not to see the difference, it is simply your partisan blinders.

So she is too lazy to vote then.... Lots of people feel that way. But it is not disenfranchisement.... It is the story of ONE person (Not a statistically significant number) CHOOSING not to vote.

I guess I should take that as a compliment. But the fact is that basic human reaction to a serious threat is boiled down to flight or fight. Research has show that the initial reaction is to run and that fight is only chosen when the person has been trained to react that way, they have a clear advantageous position, or as an act of last resort (do or die). And even people trained to walk towards the gunfire often do not choose fight until other factors come into play (peer pressure or last resort). So the initial reaction to all but the hardest MF'er on the block will be to run (which includes hiding). “We were all scared, obviously, but we had learned the floor drill meticulously. They were trying to shoot us. We killed them,” - CSM Hideshi Sasaki on his first combat experience in Panama with the Rangers. And also one of my 1SG's. So a first reaction for almost everyone is fear and to seek cover till being prepared to act. Then after a situational assessment, then a course of action can be made (fight or flight). Having or not having a weapon is a GIGANTIC piece in favor of acting.... But still not a guaranty. I can't say 100% that if I was there with my everyday carry gear that I would have engaged. I can't with any confidence say that my actions would have done any good. I can say with 100% confidence that NOT having a weapon would reduce the chances of me taking action and reduce the chances of having any positive result. I am not some drug store pulp fiction hero....I am not someone who thinks he can save the world. I am just a guy that recognizes that cops cannot be everywhere and they cannot stop every lunatic in the world. I also recognize that the armed man will kill the armed man with monotonous regularity and feel that I should take some responsibility in my and my families safety. We KNOW that this guy was not stopped by the police before he killed 12 people. We KNOW he gave up to the police when they arrived on scene. Anyone claiming that an armed citizen could have stopped this... Is making a guess. But the guy claiming that an armed citizen would have not helped or done more damage is ALSO making a guess. We will never know if an armed citizen would have made any difference..... But we also KNOW that an armed citizen has made a difference in many cases already.

You make no mention of distance. But yes, I think I could hit a head sized target at a reasonable distance in a low light condition in a lightly CS bass filled room. I have done it in training in the Army, so I know I can do it. Some other things you seem to not know or choose to ignore: 1. Getting shot even with body armor hurts. It is not like most people are just going to continue their actions with no slowing down. So even a few COM rounds would have slowed this guy down and allowed an active shooter to close the distance or find cover. 2. Getting shot at, even when wearing body armor, will slow your progress and make you focus on that threat, or leaving that threat. 3. Most nutball shooters do not do well when faced with armed opposition. Just read a bunch of after action reports.... And notice that this guy DIDN'T get into a shootout with the police, but gave up. 4. The police didn't stop this guy from killing 12 people. 5. Having a gun gives you a choice... You can decide to shoot back or run. And you can change rolls as needed. Without the gun you have one option, run. There are plenty of cases where a good guy with a gun didn't have to shoot the bad guy and still saved lives. Here is one example http://www.abc4.com/content/about_4/bios/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx

I have been exposed to CS gas plenty of times in a live fire shoot house. I could, and have, hit head sized targets while in a tear gas *filled* environment. No, no one was shooting back at me.... But your claim that it is impossible is flat false. Well, he stopped when faced with lethal force. Why is it so impossible for you to admit that it might have made all the difference? Your claims are not supported by review of civilian shootouts like the 70+ year old man in Florida last week or this one: http://www.abc4.com/content/about_4/bios/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx

I don't understand your question.... But I will try to clarify. Gun show - This would be like a flea market.... Lets say you owned the land and held a flea market. Bob showed up and wanted to sell velvet Elvis paintings and I showed up to sell firearms. YOU are not a firearms dealer, BOB is not a firearms dealer. DEALERS are required to call in a NICS check. YOU and BOB are not dealers and therefore do not need to have a firearm license. So I would have to call in any firearm sale I made.... Bob would not need to call anyone when he sold a painting. You have no duty to make any phone calls since you just provided the space. What people call a 'loophole' is just Steve trying to sell Bob a firearm. He could make the sale all day everyday, but people call it a 'loophole' if it is done at a gunshow. The ATF is pretty tough on anyone selling guns for profit without being a dealer. What people are calling a loophole is just personal face to face sales. I hope that cleared things up.

While I have no qualms about the death penalty in open and shut cases (and this pretty much seems to be an example). I would be MUCH more interested in using him as a lab rat and finding out what made him decide to commit this act. Unfortunately, our society will not let us really examine him. We seem to only be interested in punishment. This is an excellent opportunity to find out why he did this and maybe learn some things to try and avoid this in the future.

My band example was a marching band at a school. They killed a kid in a hazing incident. PArt of the punishment (Since the hazing was not a one time occurrence and people covered it up) was that the band program was ended or I think 10 years. In this case, we had an entire organization covering up felonies for many years. There is no reason to expect football to be treated differently other than Americans love their football. The program encouraged hiding the felonies.... Therefore the program should also be punished. College is not about football.

No, gun shows are not licensed dealers. Gun shows are organizations that offer up space for dealers and others to sell objects. Think of it as a flea market. The flea market is not the one selling you the velvet painting of the dogs playing poker, they only gather people with the paintings and try to attract people like you to show up and look around. Dealers are required to process every firearms sale through the NICS system (or similar). What people are calling a 'loophole' is that I can sell you a gun without a background check (In most States). One of the major issues is that there is no way that I can run a NICS check on you... I would have to be a licensed dealer to use the NICS system.

The first problem is that it is not a "loophole". Dealers are required by Federal Law to run a background check on anyone that wants to buy a gun. What the anti's are calling a 'loophole' is how face to face transactions do not require a background check.

It would not sanction a campus... It would sanction the program that took steps to hide a pretty serious crime for a long time. There was a criminal investigation on a band in Florida... The band was disbanded as part of the punishment. Seems there is a precedent.

Not really. You are still confusing voluntary outlay and forced.

Replying, in kind, to yours..... For example, that last one sure added content.

They should lose the program forever.

YOU are the one making the claim that the theaters "law" (BTW, they can't make laws) "worked". Pointing that out, is not an attack. No more than pointing out that a theater cannot make a "law" is an attack.

This comment of yours might explain a bunch about you. 1. This was a cop.... They are not like civilians and have a completely different set of rules applied to them when in the line of duty. 2. This has nothing whatsoever with SYG. Is this the best you can do?

1. I have a life outside of here. 2. My context is correct. It is not my fault you do not recall conversations.

Only you could think that 12 dead and 50 wounded as "worked".

The theater banned CCW people from bringing in guns before this happened. Creating a disarmament zone where only those so inclined to not follow the law would have a weapon.

Another total crap example. You think Zimmerman was just asked one question? You are lying, or have a very incorrect idea of what happens after a shooting. A very lame attempt at an emotional appeal.

There is a difference. I don't know how much simpler I can explain it. Discount = A deal. Penalty = A punishment. The next poster to you explained it pretty well. If you buy 5 jump tickets, I'll give them to you with a 5 dollar discount. If you don't buy any jump tickets you have to pay a five dollar fee. If you can't see the difference between those two.... I don't know how it could be explained any simpler and I have to wonder if you are actively trying to not understand it.

There is no reason why a free ID should not be provided to people. Now, the question I asked was not answered by you. Do you support an ID being required to buy a gun? Do you support an ID being needed to vote?

The difference is in my world, I have the right to not buy a car and not pay a fine for not buying a car. In your world I still have the 'right' to not buy a car, but I then have to pay a penalty for not buying a car.

No, the solution would be to identify if it is a problem, not to just ignore it. Now.... How would you suggest trying to see if it is a problem without having people show ID?