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Georger, My entire point was that I DON'T believe Jo's FBI inquiry caused a massive suppression of RFK photos. Nobody but Jo believes it. I am just trying to get Jo to be a little more logical in her thinking and recognize that coincidences do occur and do not prove causation. In case you haven't noticed I am now vying with Orange for being the biggest thorn in Jo's side. Quite a change for me but everyone has their limits. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Georger wrote: I think Braden was pretty confident in his ability to elude capture. Pretty hard to do a US$200,000 cash crime in Africa or anywhere but here. If he needed big bucks the US might have been very appealing. I go around and around about a highly trained SF type not bringing his own gear on the 727. Couldn't someone with those skills come up with an untraceable rig? That part of the crime whispers "whuffo" to me now and then. I can't imagine someone like Braden having total dependence on outsiders being able to find and deliver suitable parachutes in such a short time, not to mention the risk of hidden beacon transmitters. If you could get a bomb onto a plane a chute wouldnt be much of a problem, especially in a duffle bag or carrying case. A total whuffo might not even know where to get a suitable chute much less an untraceable one. In that case asking for chutes during the hijack makes more sense. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

If she were younger she might be a worthy successor to Ron Popeil..."but wait, there's MORE" I bet Jo is pretty good at selling houses. She knows how to work up interest, get attention, constellate the immaterial... and in the end you find that she is selling a very ordinary house, not a dwelling that played a key role in national history. George Washington did not sleep there nor did Bobby Kennedy or MLK. There are no coincidences in Jo's analysis. Look at her inference about a massive suppression of publically available RFK photos triggered by her inquiry to the FBI. It is indicative of a serious persistent flaw in her thinking. All roads lead to Duane, period. If they don't, it's just cause you haven't traveled far enough. I still see the good side of Jo, but she makes it difficult. Jo said unequivocally that Duane Weber was Dan Cooper and promised proof. Until she retracts her claim I will remind her now and then of her unfulfilled promise. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Indeed we do Georger. Any suggestions for our salvation will be seriously considered. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

If an inquiry to the FBI from Jo can result in massive supression of previously public info, we need to put that power to good use. Suggestions? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

You gotta love Sluggo. He is a real Southern Gentleman as evidenced by his restraint with Jo after she wasted a lot of his time. Jo hasn't really done anything to me personally and I am less charitable than Sluggo. Now we see the plasticity of his outlook on Snowmman. He doesn't stay in an angry rutt. Even when pissed he maintains objectivity and can throw a bone to a dog when deserved. You set a good example Sluggo. If Braden is Cooper he'd just ignore relevant inquiries and go to his grave as an unproven suspect. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

If I was picking my crew for a Mars landing I'd have to include Snow, a Sawzall, a good assortment of circuit test gear, spare parts, tools and a TIG welder. That oughta do it. I am getting pretty good on the C 123K pack for MS Flight Sim Snow. I find if I modify those jet fuel controllers to let me exceed max TIT (turbine inlet temp, not some sexist term) I can baby those Pratt and Whitney R 2800 radials on takeoff. Sure the jets might blow up, but I spool em down once we reach 500 ft AGL with a positive rate of climb on just recip power. How are you doing at Perris with your RV based recruiting drive? Finding any kickers among the screamers? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Boeing 747, even guppy modded, won't do. No tailgate. The plane we should have bought was the C 133 that instead was donated to the Travis AFB museum last year. After the USAF retired the 133s this one sold military surplus for $20,000!!! Check it out: http://propliners.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6376074032/m/299103551 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Not at all. Tom actually gets money from Carr, albeit old and tattered. You can't get the time of day from Carr much less evidence samples or on site file inspections. You won't kiss FBI butt. You won't even play nice. Status quo insured. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

That is just so frigging wild. Let's start writing the screenplay now. The Cooper movie just got a lot more interesting. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

For you Snow? NADA. As tough as it might be for you personally, you'll have to beg Chief NORJACK Scientist Tom K to make your request. Tom has a hall pass. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Skydiving is unique in the age spread of participants. I've been on RW jumps where the age delta between oldest and youngest in a formation was well over 50 years! The plane (DC 3) was 66 years old and the pilot was 72. Few extreme sports can claim similar demographics. For older jumpers it isnt all about eyeing the beauty of youth at the DZ, although that is a benefit. Skydiving puts you in touch with what younger people are thinking about. You hear their perspective on things and it keeps you on your toes. You could see the election of Obama coming when even middle of the road young jumpers were saying they were completely fed up with Republican politics. Having such a bright young woman like Orange here hangin with us older guys is very refreshing, but in skydiving it isn't so far out of the norm. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jerry, Do you still think Cooper was a whuffo or do you think there is a chance he was an experienced military jumper... perhaps suffering from post traumatic stress disorder and not thinking rationally about the risks, dangers, rewards etc.? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Couldn't agree with you more Snow. The heroism was unbelievable. This is an exellent read, written by a Nam vet helo pilot, riveting and lots of details about the actual flying. Some crew chiefs did a forbidden mod on the Huey fuel controllers to allow over limit engine power for do or die situations. http://www.amazon.com/Chickenhawk-Robert-Mason/dp/0140072187 Interestingly, after the author returned from Viet Nam, he got involved in drug smuggling and went to prison. This book chronicles the seocnd half of the story: "This affecting sequel to Chickenhawk , a 1983 memoir of Vietnam, covers Mason's postwar life and his struggle with the classic symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder: overwhelming restlessness, panic attacks and inability to hold a job. After finding relief in writing about his tour as a helicopter pilot in Vietnam, he then took a major misstep by joining a drug-smuggling venture that involved a sailboat voyage across the Caribbean. Caught by U.S. customs authorities, Mason found himself facing the shame of trial and the terror of prison. During this critical period, he received the news that Viking had accepted the book in hand for publication. Thus: "While I was experiencing the highest moment of my life, I was also experiencing the lowest moment of my life." Mason has a powerful personal tale that should have wide appeal. His account of the smuggling misadventure and his imprisonment in Florida are searing." http://www.amazon.com/Chickenhawk-Back-World-After-Vietnam/dp/0670848352 Could Cooper have suffered a similar fate? War trauma abroad followed by descent in to domestic crime? It didn't happen to everyone but it happened to enough to warrant serious study by the Army. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Hard to really make anything out of it. Jumpers in the 1971 era never called belly reserves anything but "reserves", only riggers used the term "chest". If you were Cooper and you were trying to tell a stewardess what kind of gear you wanted you'd probably use the simplest least ambiguous terms you could which would be front and back. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Really interesting stuff Snowmman. I was a skydiver, a Ramparts subscriber. I even spent time talking with Bob Scheer (the editor) at a party. I was also very interested in the Cooper case. Back then it never occured to me that it could all tie together even in a speculative way. I and most of my jumper friends were sure Cooper was a skydiver and for some reason we figured he was probably from California. Nobody in my crowd was thinking military, we kinda thought they were too law abiding. We also (incorrectly) thought of military jumpers as low altitude S/L Airborne types. The sheer craziness of the crime had skydiver written all over it as far as we were concerned. I wish Ckret would save his "citizen sleuths" from wasting time on suspects the FBI might have already investigated in depth. Cooper could have been a whuffo, but I'd bet not. Few whuffos know about flaps, pressurization, exit speeds and so forth. I've said many times that Cooper had to know you could jump a 727. Very few knew this in 71. Few had the jump skills to confidently manage the Cooper stormy night jump over unknown terrain, but the SF HALO guys in Nam did. So far it is 100% speculation, but the more we dig the better hypothetical case you can make for Cooper to have been a disgruntled SF type who came back home with the highly specialized knowledge and skills to pull off NORJACK. It is amazing to me that the military would give anyone a free pass on desertion during wartime. An accused deserter like Braden could threaten to tell about all sorts of dirty linen but the military could just deny it. Viet Nam Veterans Against the War made all sorts of claims about atrocities and illegalities in SE Asia US military ops, but the military simply ignored/denied the charges and nothing came of it. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Yeah, that might put a damper on things. You really crack me up sometimes Snow. Hey, Barry is dead. Let's buy that C 123 and see what's left of his market. All we need to do is find some SF guys willing to work for an inflation adjusted $3000 a month. There are skydivers with special ops military experience, but they'd just be looking for excuses to jump if we had em in a tailgate aircraft or else performing inflight QC on the drug cargo. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I know why you shake your head Orange. I guess I am just a hopeless optimist about Jo eventually changing her ways and becoming forthright. The RFK tie thing really kills me, I mean SHE posts the info then gets all cute and secretive when asked to augment her claim with a few facts. Duane was operating on the edge of so many historic events: CIA front companies, Bay of Pigs Cuba invasion, MLK assassination, RFK, DB Cooper, highly secret Asian prison camps and lord knows what else. Next we will be hearing about the secret fourth astronaut on Apollo 13. America had a James Bond, we just didn't know it. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo, About the battery and flares, is that a guess or do you actually know something? From the description, the battery was a large 1.5 volt dry cell which, by itself, is pretty useless for powering radio communication devices. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo, You deserve a Nobel prize in teasing. The above text dodging questions about the Bobby Kennedy tie is a real masterpiece. Bravo. Well done. Now about the jumper who just happened to come up to you and talk about the [H]ooper jump, how would she know who you were, your interest in Cooper and even what you looked like? Please explain further. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Barry Seal also operated a Learstar aircraft, a go fast mod of a Lockheed Lodestar. The Learstar could get in and out of very short fields and go very long distances unrefuled at high speeds. MUCH faster than a C 123, but also way less payload. There is so much BS about Seal on the Internet it is hard to separate fact from fiction, but it is beyond dispute that he was involved in some messy spook stuff and also ran drugs. Even the USAF ran drugs, although it wasn't official. Heroin was sometimes concealed in body bags returning from Nam according to a C 141 pilot I spoke with. The stench from the body cargo loads was so bad that even the slightest leak in the gas tight body bag zippers forced the crew to go on oxygen. Nobody was wanting to do inspections of the bags until they got to the morgues where presumably those in the know removed the heroin. I have no proof, just the pilot's story. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

***How come jumper women are talking to Jo? *** Yeah, Jo give us some more detail on this encounter. How did the jumper know who you were? She sounds more like a skydiver than mil jumper. Hundreds of skydivers jumped from a 727 that was in the jumpship fleet at the World Free Fall Convention in Quincy Illinois in the 1990s. Most mil jet jumps were out the side door of a Lockheed C 141 transport. Also, what are you implying in telling us that Duane had a tie that belonged to RFK? Was it a clip on? JC Penney? When Marilyn Monroe is waiting you don't want to waste precious minutes undoing a traditional tie. You do a tie cutaway. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Been trying to figure that out Snow. Looks a lot like a commercial RC transmitter for controlling planes based on shape size and two joystick configuration. Wish I had a higher res photo. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Funny wording for such an important law: "SHOULD not be permitted..." 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Drug smuggling, hiring hookers, covert LSD dosing of innocent subjects, sending TOW missiles to our enemies... Tell me again, how do I distinguish the government guys from the bad guys? I can see where a straight arrow SF guy figures out that he has been risking his life for the benefit of lawless thugs in DC and decides that he is going to play by a new set of rules. He scopes out flights, jumpable airliners, overflown LZs, seasonal weather and hatches a fantastic plan. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.