BIGUN

Oh bullshit. As long as you're breathing; you'll always be tempted to do stupid shit. Luv ya, Mean it. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Read as: 1. WE are going to have to shed the far left perspective of get rid of the 2nd Amendment to the 2. far right perspective of the government has no right to know how many guns I have or where. 3. Long journey; many steps proposition. If both sides can shake hands and agree the objective is... Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Afternoon, Jerry. With all due respect, I don't "think" the pendulum can swing that far. WE are going to have to shed the far left perspective of get rid of the 2nd Amendment to the far right perspective of the government has no right to know how many guns I have or where. Long journey; many steps proposition. If both sides can shake hands and agree the objective is... no children should die like that. Then, we have a start. I've gone back through the thread and culled some perspectives as well as some sent in PMs. I'd like tonight to percolate go through those thoughts and formalize them in a new thread which I'll ask that we stay in topic. Have great night, Keith Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Yeah, Don. I miss LawRocket's contributions also. Made one think. I'm convinced there's a/some way before we get to the consequence phase. Cause, by then... children are dead. We have some great minds in the government. I'm sure someone, somewhere could develop a matrix of all the variables and develop if; then relationships that would get us closer than we've ever been to "a" preventative solution other than - Your Way Sucks, No Your Way. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Joe, Enjoyed it. We're actually not that far apart and if we were to sit down; I'm confident you and I could develop something better than what our reps in DC could pull off. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

So, again. Many words - no proposed solutions. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Morning, Joe. You have a couple of salient points and a couple with which I respectfully disagree. Don't know if you read far enough back that I not only agree with these points, but would advocate more training than just shooting 50 rds at a target from 25 yards, patting them on the butt and calling it good for the next 5 or 10 years (dependent on state renewal options). I would actually advocate a Close Quarter Combat (CQB) course in a MOUT environment. Let people see how well they do in a timed event (adding stress), with multiple friendlies & bad guys. Let them see their strengths and weaknesses and perhaps they'll realize that a one time visit to the range ain't going to get it. Require different levels of certification. Personal defense only, Defense of others, etc. That encourage people to go to the range more than even once a year for re-qual. This is where we'll have to disagree and because this is exactly what I was getting at in a couple of different threads. You just placed the exact same weapon in the hands of others what Whitman used in the University of Texas Massacre which Remington advertises as, "Top choice of elite military snipers, the Model 700 is un-equaled in tactical precision." Joe, I'm just about to extricate myself from this discussion. Here's why I stepped in - I had hoped to capture some great ideas that were not too far extreme towards either side and package them up for sending to my State and National Representatives. A list of bullet items (no pun intended) of centrist perspectives that both sides could not necessarily embrace - but, would bring up talking points to move more towards a solution than an opposing, heels dug in, left/right perspective. Cause the same rhetoric from both sides will temper over time until nothing gets changed AND this too becomes a distant memory for everyone except those directly affected until the next one. Points that are absolutes. 1. We are different than every other country and to our friends in Britain and Canada - we ain't you. Our 2nd amendment isn't going away. So, we have to keep that in mind as we move forward. 2. Banning assault style weapons - I simply don't understand how some can preach that banning doesn't work when it comes to marijuana and use the "look at how well that worked with alcohol" point of view thinks it will work here. Who decides what weapons get banned and how effective would that be? Someone intent on doing the kind of damage we've seen over the years is either, 1) not going to give a shit about what's banned, and 2) even if they could not get their hands on what's popular; would get something even more powerful that may not be banned. 3. Laws of banning have not only proven to not work. The original Gun-Free Zones Act was authored by Biden (Democrat); signed into law by Bush (Republican) overturned by the Supreme Court for the way it was written and again passed in its new & improved format and signed into law by Clinton in 1996. Since that time - it has been demonstrated the increase in school shootings has risen - we can't politely tuck that away. It's either a case worth studying and if ineffective; needs some overhaul. And, if it's effective; needs some overhaul. Hence, my proposition on Armed Campus Police Departments. And, then the question becomes, "How do we pay for it?" Well, in Oklahoma, we do it. Recently, there was an older kid walking up to an elementary school. Campus police mobilized by the onsite campus police officer; City police were called and mobilized and before he even got to the doors was absconded and within minutes - the parents were informed and the situation diffused. Again, before he even got to the doors. Turned out - he was bringing his kid sister's forgotten lunch. Again, before he even got to the doors. 4. In this country, we have a culture of "can't do." It's in this country's historical DNA. It's in our Constitution. There's a whole list of "can't do's" in it. Can't take away our right to own and bear arms, can't take our land, can't arrest for... can't take away our right to... Along with a multitude of "can'ts" interpreted by SCOTUS.. can't discriminate, can't... 5. After each mass shooting in the United States, many gun control advocates point to Australia, where a bipartisan coalition passed sweeping gun legislation that effectively ended mass shootings and dramatically reduced gun violence nationwide. More than 20 years ago, Australia had its own mass shooting, a devastating massacre in which a man with a semi-automatic rifle opened fire at a tourist destination on the Tasmanian peninsula killing 35 and injuring 23. Twelve days later, a conservative prime minister introduced the National Firearms Act, which banned the sale and importation of all automatic and semi-automatic rifles and shotguns. Australia has no Constitutional provision to keep and bear arms. But, the man who helped craft the National Firearms Act while serving in the Australian Parliament is now Australian ambassador to the U.S. - says that idea is "naive" when it comes to the U.S. Australia and the United States are completely different situations, and it goes back to each of our foundings. America was born from a culture of self-defense. Australia was born from a culture of “the government will protect me.” Australia wasn’t born as a result of a brutal war. We weren’t invaded. We weren’t attacked. We weren’t occupied. That makes an incredible difference, even today. Our histories are completely different. The U.S. had a horrendous civil war, with more casualties than every other war combined. We didn’t have that history. It really went to the core of what it means to defend your people." In closing, I had hoped to pick the minds of those I respect in this forum to get some centrist solution suggestions. So far, all I have received is the same arguments against any proposal I've put out there with no real additions for consideration. I fear; we will again have the same conversation in the next two-three years if both sides don't come together for our nation's children. Keith Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Right? Kinda like going 20 over the speed limit while an officer is parked on the side of the road. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Yes, more yahoo wannabes with guns making challenges to troubled teens who feel desperate and need help. Not everyone thinks it's a good idea to have the police state you describe. Escalating he situation is rarely a good idea in the civilian world. And yet again; you offer no solutions only target what I've said. What is YOUR suggestion? As you've seen in my previous posts; what can we do to prevent future occurrences while adhering to the second amendment? To start with, let's have some reasonable restrictions on assault weapons. They have near-zero legitimate civilian purpose that isn't performed equally well by a gun that isn't designed to rapidly kill people in close Non-solution solution. That'll make everyone feel good... but it doesn't solve a problem. Anyone can take a Ruger 22 or mini 14; put a cool looking polymer stock on it; get a 30 rd magazine and make it just as sinister as the devilish AR-15. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Yes, more yahoo wannabes with guns making challenges to troubled teens who feel desperate and need help. Not everyone thinks it's a good idea to have the police state you describe. Escalating he situation is rarely a good idea in the civilian world. And yet again; you offer no solutions only target what I've said. What is YOUR suggestion? As you've seen in my previous posts; what can we do to prevent future occurrences while adhering to the second amendment? Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

The bible teaches us to love and Kamasutra shows how to do that. If a firefighters business can go up in smoke, and a plumbers business can go down the drain, can a hooker get laid off? What did the elephant say to a naked man? Hey that’s cute but can you breathe through it? I asked a Chinese girl for her number. She said, “Sex! Sex! Sex! Free sex tonight!” I said, “Wow!” Then her friend said, “She means 666-3629.” What’s the difference between roast beef and pea soup? Anyone can roast beef. And the requisite joke of the day.... Bum Bum Buuuum What kind of bees produce milk? Boobies Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

OK, Jerry - That made me laugh out loud. Thanks. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

They have very strict gun controls. That's how they do it. https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-dismisses-us-gun-lobbys-inaccurate-claim-about-gun-laws/ Within the context of my entire response - thank you for proving my point. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

It doesn't have to cost that much. Put one or two or three (dependent on pop density for that school) highly armed veteran with tactical or combat experience on perimeter security who has children in THAT school. S/he will have a vested interest in ensuring nothing happens. Then advertise it. How Does Israel Do It? They figured it out 40 years ago. Another question to ask: Since Biden, Bush & Clinton passed the gun-free zones act(s). How many school shootings before that point in time and how many after? Yesterday, a student in Muskogee brought a gun to school. He got snatched up by the Muskogee Public Schools Campus Police. Yes, we have armed campus police at our schools. Now if Oklahoma can figure out how to afford it - perhaps other states should give us a call. And, the gun-free zone law Act has an exemption clause for teachers to already carry on school grounds. There's ~20 states that exercise that exemption. EDIT: called it a law - Act Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Because you can't "un-friend" someone here when you get tired of their soap box. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Not saying one is better than the other. Had a great experience at both. Just offering a driving difference of 45 minutes compared to 3 1/2 Hours. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

I was pretty impressed with the atmosphere at Aerohio down in Rittman (~45 minutes from Cleveland). Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

You are correct. Thank you. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Cath, something to consider is... checking the tops of the cutaway cable to ensure they are even and are properly routed and inside the loops. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Knee-jerk reaction? Seriously? Are you really that out of touch with reality? We've allowed the same stupid shit to keep happening over and over, for many years. If we finally pass some reasonable gun legislation, you can rest easy knowing that it was anything but a knee-jerk reaction. I'd appreciate your not taking it to a personal level and actually share your in touch with reality thoughts on your proposed legislation. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

I lived in Strongsville for awhile (just south of Cleveland) Lake effect snows made the city 2nd in the nation in annual snowfall (Buffalo first). My first and only winter... between November and February I saw the sun for a day and a half. I asked one of my colleagues, "What in the fuck do you do to keep from being depressed all winter - have a pipeline of chocolate you can tap off or sumpin?!?!?!?!" We go to bars and drink and watch sports. Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to drinking, but I am opposed to "watching" sports. On the flip side. I love Florida Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

I don't: Face Tweet Tumble + Snap Whats QQ Insta Or whatever... You can reach me by phone, text, email or by PM here.

As a former soldier (with a kid in school that has campus police - with arrest authority and which trains with the local police on active shooter scenarios) am conflicted about the knee-jerk reaction to a solution that calls for more additions to the ~1,500 federal and state gun laws (depending on state) in place. Some thoughts: 1. Perhaps I've had my fill of assault rifles and feel no need to own one - but, I will not determine who can own one. There are many types of hunting rifles more powerful than the AR-15, so to me - banning assault looking weapons is silly. If you did that - they would just pick up the next weapon available. 2. If I sell a gun - they have to sign a bill of sale... cause I don't know three owners down the line's intentions. Therefore, I have no problem with a formal system of transference not unlike that of an automobile. 3. Training - the course for those who don't have any training is a bit of a joke (2 days). Extend the training & require annual re-quals with a minimum of marksman. 4. There are some states that allow one with a DD-214 in the past 20 years to waive the two day course. Everyone has to take the extended course prior to receiving a CCP. I seriously know AF & Navy folks that saw a weapon in basic with annual re-quals and that was about it. 5. Even uniform unarmed patrol in schools has served as a deterrence. 6. Metal detectors + campus security = http://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/theres-one-way-to-stop-school-shootings-without-taking-away-anyones-guns 7. There's plenty of police officers who work armed security jobs for extra money - put them in the queue first for those jobs (and they've been trained on active shooter, ALERRRT, etc.). Give certified officers an exemption to carry weapons on school grounds as campus police (security as unarmed/police as armed). https://www.campussafetymagazine.com/university/concealed-carry-policy-campus-carry-campus-police-public-safety/ But, of course, I live in a state where: http://www.newson6.com/story/31124844/okay-public-schools-now-allowing-staff-to-carry-guns-on-campus Bottom line: this is not a left or right issue. We (most) all have kids/nieces/nephews. We should require our politicians work to find a middle ground. It can be done and without infringing on the 2nd amendment. EDIT: Add URL Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

http://www.baruch.cuny.edu/nycdata/public_safety/crime-selectcities.htm Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

I would encourage everyone to search "NYC Schools Security." You have to ask yourself why no school shootings in the city of violent crimes. EDIT: Grammar Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.