freethefly

I want to be a hostage, too. No rescue needed. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Hey, he WAS in the LINE of FIRE. That should relieve Chaney from any responsibilty. After all the guy was between him and the bird. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

The picture was an attachment to an AP article on my homepage. I was not particurly refering to these men standing in the photo as I was in general to the number of men and women who have not stepped up. Their country is under attack and they cannot seem to pull together as one to end the senseless violence. The article is somewhat dismaying and is not very flattering on the Iraqis part as to bringing about peace or least a truce. As I asked what is it that stalls any real advancement. Tribal loyalty or religion? If it is one or both it is something that has been waging since biblical times. Not much chance that US policy will prevail if it goes that far back. I do realize that their are many Iraqis who have stepped up, but also see that within those there is also infighting amongst them. Read the article and please give an honest opnion and not a flame. Shiites Fail to Select New Iraq PM 02/11/2006 11-FEB-2006: Residents of the Dora neighborhood in Baghdad gather at the site of an explosion, Friday, Feb. 10, 2006. A car bomb exploded outside a Sunni Muslim mosque in southwestern Baghdad on Friday, killing at least eight Iraqis and wounding 21, a hospital official said. (AP Photo/Hadi Mizban) [Photo copyright 2006 by AP] Associated Press/AP Online BAGHDAD, Iraq - Shiite politicians failed Saturday to select a new prime minister as rivalry within their alliance forced a delay in the balloting. An Iraqi army spokesman was assassinated in Basra, a southern city plagued by lawlessness and violence by Shiite militias. Members of the Shiite alliance who won seats in parliament in the December election gathered in Baghdad to discuss their choice for prime minister but postponed a vote for at least a day at the request of radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's faction. Shiite officials who attended the meeting, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, said the delay was due to last-minute differences between al-Sadr's faction and another group within the alliance. Speculation for the top government job has fallen on Vice President Adil Abdul-Mahdi and the current prime minister, Ibrahim al-Jaafari. Each is supported by two major factions in the Shiite alliance. Choosing a new premier, and in turn forming a long-term government, are key steps in Iraq's sluggish political process that the United States - and many Iraqis - hope will lead to an end to the bloodshed and an improvement in the daily lives for this country's 27 million people. But the violence underscored the worsening sectarian nature of the country's conflict and the dangers facing Iraqi security forces, which the United States hopes will be able to control the insurgency so U.S.-led forces can go home. An Iraqi tribal leader, Sheik Osama al-Jadaan, said his followers have seized more than 1,400 "terrorists" in a three-month counterinsurgency operation that began about a month ago along the Iraq-Syria border. "This campaign aims at restoring security on the Iraqi-Syrian borders until the formation of the government and in assisting Iraqi forces to take control on Anbar" province, al-Jadaan said. U.S. authorities have touted efforts by some Iraqi groups to combat foreign fighters and Iraqi insurgent groups in Anbar, where the insurgency is also influenced by tribal rivalries. U.S. military officials have been recruiting scouts among al-Jadaan's tribe after a rival tribe threw its support to the insurgents. In the Anbar provincial capital of Ramadi, a U.S. Marine helicopter fired two rockets Saturday into an insurgent hide-out, killing six militants and wounding another, said Marine spokesman Capt. Jeffrey Pool. The rocket attack followed clashes between U.S. soldiers and militants near the soccer stadium in Ramadi, 70 miles west of Baghdad. The wounded insurgent was taken to a military hospital for treatment and will be questioned. In nearby Fallujah, gunmen in a red sedan shot dead a policeman Saturday as he was heading to work, police said. Fallujah, a former insurgent stronghold 40 miles west of Baghdad, has become one of the tightest controlled cities in Iraq following the November 2004 U.S.-led operation to flush out militants. But deadly militant activity has resumed in recent weeks. Iraqi army spokesman Capt. Makram al-Abbasi was killed in a hail of gunfire from a civilian car accompanied by a police vehicle Saturday in Basra, army Capt. Firas al-Tamimi said. The British-controlled southern city also had been noted for its relative stability but has seen renewed violence, in part fueled by rival Shiite militias and local opposition to the coalition troop presence. Al-Abbasi, a Sunni Arab, had been coordinating media coverage of raids conducted in the city, which largely target suspected Shiite militiamen that Sunnis say have infiltrated the Iraqi police force. The most recent such operation for which al-Abbasi arranged coverage was last week when troops detained 22 people before all were mysteriously freed, al-Tamimi said. In Baghdad's southern neighborhood of Dora, gunmen killed traffic policeman Ahmed Majeed Obaid as he left his home at midday, Lt. Maitham Abdul-Razzaq said. Armed men also killed police Sgt. Bassem al-Rikabi while he patrolled in the southeastern Jisr Diyala area of the capital at about 11:30 p.m. Friday, police said. Iraqi police forces are routinely targeted by Sunni Arab insurgents bent on derailing this country's post-Saddam Hussein reconstruction. Members of the Shiite United Iraqi Alliance - which has first crack at the prime minister's job since it won the largest number of seats in the Dec. 15 parliamentary election - convened at the home of political boss Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim. However, the group announced that the session would be postponed until Sunday because some of al-Sadr's followers were unable to attend. Parliament is supposed to convene within two weeks now that the certification of the results is complete, with choosing a figurehead president as the first order of business. But an end to speculation over the new prime ministers could speed the process of forming the government, which is due to be completed by mid-May. Meanwhile, kidnappers of American journalist Jill Carroll have given until Feb. 26 until their demands are met or they will kill their 28-year-old captive, according to the owner of a Kuwaiti private TV station that aired the latest tape showing the hostage Thursday. Al Rai TV owner Jassem Boudai said the kidnappers contacted the station Friday with demands that were "more specific" than the release of all Iraqi female detainees, which the group laid down in the first tape released last month. Boudai refused to elaborate. The U.S. military has released five Iraqi women from detention but said the releases were routine and not part of any swap for Carroll, who was abducted Jan. 7 in Baghdad. Five Iraqi women still remain in U.S. military custody. "We continue to make every effort to secure her release, to see that she's back safe and sound with her family and her co-workers," said State Department spokesman Sean McCormack in Washington. "We call upon her captors to release her immediately." "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

11-FEB-2006: Residents of the Dora neighborhood in Baghdad gather at the site of an explosion, Friday, Feb. 10, 2006. A car bomb exploded outside a Sunni Muslim mosque in southwestern Baghdad on Friday, killing at least eight Iraqis and wounding 21, a hospital official said. (AP Photo/Hadi Mizban) [Photo copyright 2006 by AP] How many more reasons do they need to step up and take control of the situation? If this was happening in America, you can bank on it that our guns would be loaded. I am tired of watching the news and seeing able boby Iraqis standing around doing nothing. Sure, they didn't start it, but it is there and they need to step up and do the right thing and take control of their future. I admire the Iraqis who have stood up and are willing, like so many others from around the globe, to put their lifes on the line. What is it that keeps them from doing so? Is it tribal loyalty? Religous loyalty? What are so many so loyal to that they are not all running to join the force that can free them and give them a better future? "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Makes for a good reason to bury guns and plenty of ammo and to keep your shovel close at hand. Hard to see martial law actually being enacted nation wide. But...oh, yeah, the Feds only want to protect freedom. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I agree 100%. If it were possible, I would rejoin. Age and health conditions makes me an undesirable. I am all for people joining, as long as they know the reason why. The reason for Afghanistan was clear and defined. Iraq? the reason has changed so many times that I doubt Bush can even keep up with "why". "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Here's a good possible reason. http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/ I grew up in the Navy. Joined during the Iran Crisis. We were told it was about freedom. They lied. Just another power struggle. If you honestly believe that people being killed in Iraq is keeping us free, you need a reality check. If you are so gung-ho, find a way to go back. Don't tell others that they are not American because they have a different view on this quagmire. With the violence escalating to new heights everyday and no end anywhere in sight, do you really believe the answer is to send more into the meatgrinder? What right do you have to tell others to "be a man" ? How about telling the Iraqis if they want "freedom" they should do the job. Americans are thrown in with but a few months of training. Why are the Iraqis so slow to get on the ball? Appearently they do not want it that bad. It appears they want the opposite. It seems they just openned the door in the beginning and let us in so they would have easier targets. How many more names need to be added to the list? You compare this quagmire to WW2? Not even close to being alike. I supported the attack on the Taliban and Al Qaeda. The whole world did. After all, they attacked us. The misguided invasion and occupation of Iraq has seriously hurt our credibilty and drained resources that could had been put to better use in bringing Al Qaeda down. We are just spinning the wheel in Iraq and going nowhere. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

This guy could make a living as a stand up comic. Some of what he says is just flat out funny! "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Do you fit the discription. I do pa·gan NOUN: One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion. One who has no religion. A non-Christian. A hedonist. A Neo-Pagan. ADJECTIVE: Not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. Professing no religion; heathen. Neo-Pagan. ETYMOLOGY: Middle English, from Late Latin pgnus, from Latin, country-dweller, civilian, from pgus, country, rural district; see pag- in Indo-European roots "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Actually, I don't know. I have to admit that I don't know who Raoul Duke is, or what he's known for. Is he a drug-use advocate or something? I don't know as Carl Sagan has some connection to recreational drug abuse that would connect use of a quote by him with the notion that you smoke pot to get high... - Raoul Duke was Dr. Hunter S. Thompson's alter ego. Carl Sagan used mj from his early thirties untill his death. You only need to google Sagan and marijuana to learn more about "Mr. X" No matter what one thinks of Dr. Thompson, he remains as one of the greatest American writers and was the only living writer to be placed in the Library of Congress. The body of work that Carl Sagan produced speaks for itself. Without doubt, he remains one of the greatest minds ever. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

My younger brother died of cancer in 2000. Mj provided much relief for him throughout the chemo treatment where as the heavy narcotics only brought him down to the point of being suicidal as well as major wasting. Mj is in fact a wonderful plant that has many uses. What a shame that some cannot see this and wish to keep it from the world. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Agree. I still, however, find it offensive. Would one say the same if my sig line was one from Carl Sagan? "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I have used the synthetic THC Dronabinol. It is very unreliable. Again you are touching on a subject that you apparently know nothing about. Read the medical journals and then make an informed statement other than childish rhetoric. The fact that you used Raoul Duke in your sig speaks to you possibly using your condition as a pretense to get stoned... I find your statement to be offensive and a personal attack. I do not use mj to get "stoned". When I do use mj, I use only enough to curb nausea and to bring my appetite up. Educate yourself before you start accussing people of being "pathetic stoners". http://www.medicalmarijuanaprocon.org/ "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I have used the synthetic THC Dronabinol. It is very unreliable. Again you are touching on a subject that you apparently know nothing about. Read the medical journals and then make an informed statement other than childish rhetoric. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

The proof is there. Ask any cancer patient who has used it. Ask any AIDS patient who has used it (I'll save you the trouble on this one. Yes, it does work and works well. No nausea, great appetite that leads to weight gain and a better outlook on life). I have not smoked any in more than 3 months and it shows from the rapid weight loss from wasting syndrome.) Why would anyone want to keep this from those who need it? Would you much rather see the sick get sicker? I take it that you have never read any of the medical journals that have documented the advances in medical mj. I take it that you know zero about mj other than what you have heard from anti mj ads. Educate yourself on the subject. Might come a day when such a drug will be a godsend for you. Your reaction to my post is childish. It also shows that you have no idea who is behind the push for medical mj. Sick and dying patients are not "pathetic stoners". As an AIDS patient I fully endorse medical mj and I am not a "pathetic stoner" as you imply. I take your comment to be an insult. Oh, and mj is not habit forming. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

How long before the Federal Government enacts it's own medical mj program. They must know that eventually all states will allow this great medicine to those in need of it. At one time the Feds did have a compassionate use program but out of ignorance ended it. New Mexico Senate Approves Medical Cannabis Measure Santa Fe, NM: Senators overwhelmingly approved legislation this week to exempt seriously ill patients who use medical marijuana under a physician's supervision from state criminal prosecution. The Senate voted 34 to 6 in favor of the measure, which now moves to the House. If passed, Senate Bill 258 would exempt authorized patients from state criminal prosecution for the possession and use of medicinal cannabis. Qualified patients would be issued identification cards by the state Department of Health. The proposal also encourages the health department to develop a "distribution system" for medical cannabis that provides for "licensed cannabis production facilities." State Governor Bill Richardson (D) has stated that he will sign the bill. Similar legislation passed the state Senate last year but stalled in the House. To date, eleven states - Alaska, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington - have enacted laws exempting physician-supervised marijuana patients from arrest and criminal prosecution. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

What the fuck does WTF stand for?????? "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

The US was past its ears with the very same people during the Afghan-Russian war. Only we called them "Freedom Fighters" then. No sooner than the Iron Curtain fell, the US abandon support for the "Freedom Fighters". One of the reasons the "Freedom Fighters/terrorist" are pissed off. As for a journalist getting more notice when injured or killed, Law Rocket said it very well. Also, a journalist does not have to be there. They choose to be, only because they feel a need to tell the story to the world. It has been this way from the very first war. Without them, how can we learn from the past (evidently, we have not learned much). The soldier has no choice. I do not believe that their injuries or deaths have gone unnoted. I see the faces and names everyday on the evening news. Sadly it has just become a regular feature much like the weather report. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

How in the hell do they get their robes and turbans so white. I, mean really, I use bleach and have tried All, Era, Arm and Hammer with baking powder and the rest. Hot water, cold and luke warm. No difference. Really man, I mean, these people live in freaking caves and yet they have the whitest whites. These guys are like the Islamic version of Martha Stewart. They need a show of their own. Call it "Cave Living with Ossy and Al" "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Not sure if corporations should be "forced" to give back. Maybe nudged. I do believe that they are, however, indebted to society, the very people who consume their products. Also, the communities they employe, they are also indebted to and in return the people too are indebted to the company. As skydyvr pointed out, some corporations do give back and the goodwill reflects back on the company as desirable. Some companies participate in toy drives, community clean up and renovation, food drives and such. Some give heavily to other forms of charities such as AIDS research, cancer research, muscular dystrophy to name a few. Bill Gates has given heavily of himself and his money, same as Ted Turner. Philanthropy happens with little knowledge that it does. What overshadows the good being done is that more light is shed on the Ken Lays of the corporate world. For good reason as they should be exposed for feigning to be the good guys while the true white hats go about the business of giving back with little or no fanfare. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

He would cause far less damage if behind a gun. As long as no one shows him where the trigger is. How much of the American taxpayers money did Bush and thugs spend trying to influence the Palestinian election? Seems I heard it was several million dollars. If so, this money could had been used to help right here in the USA, instead of trying to buy an election. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I was at one time C-1 nuke as a navy welder and G5 for pressure pipe. I am also NDT UX2 certified to perform inspection. But because of health reasons I no longer care to do such anymore. I am on SSI at the moment but am building up an embroidery and digitizing business from home to get off the SSI. I focus mostly on skydive designs. I agree that there is a huge amount of tension in union shops. Most appearent at contract time. I have also worked both sides. I did best with Sperry Rail Service as a chief operator. Sperry was great, non union, just to much travel. Gone 8 months of the year. You know, part of the problem also seems to be the technology. The robotic welder took the place of 20 jobs. When you are one of the people at the bottom it sucks. Someone is going out the door and it is the person at the bottom of the chain. The union assures this as the majority comes first. Sure, maybe the guy who gets to stay is a crappy worker and the guy getting laid off is far better and at times it sucks but at the same time it does not dictate by favortism. I would rather go out the door because it is my place in line rather than go because I am not a favorite of the boss. Everyone knows that sooner or later that they can be replaced by technology so it is no surprise when it happens. Companies go with the times, also understood. Both sides come with a price though. To bad it also comes with a high cost to the everyday laborer. But, hey, that's life. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I was one of the 151 who lost a great paying job at this plant during this round of layoffs. I was union and damn proud of it. I also busted my ass 12 hours a day. I was a welder. I started in a booth and eventually ran one of the 4 robotic welders that replaced about 20 welders. It was not an easy job. You worked hard as the working table rotated every 45 seconds. You loaded one side as the other side was in the welding process. It rotates and you unload a finished piece. The pieces were of different weights ranging from 30 to 75 pounds. You moved about 400 pieces a day. Beside running the robot we also moved a number of other parts and did a large number of hand welded parts. Mig and gas. Alongside the welding we were also responsiablle for the movement of the overhead parts conveyor. If it jammed, and it often did throughout the day, we had to fix the problem to keep the line supplied at the same time move parts physically to the line. No time to sit and smoke cigarettes as some suggest that union folks do all day. Believe me, it was non-stop the entire day. Not to mentionthe sweltering heat you worked in. Your clothes were soaked, as if you jumped in a pool of water, with sweat. Hussmann lays off another 151 at its Bridgeton plant St. Louis Business Journal ^ | November 29, 2002 | Chad Garrison Posted on 12/02/2002 6:53:26 PM PST by Willie Green For education and discussion only. Not for commercial use. Hussmann Corp. has laid off 151 union workers at its Bridgeton plant. The Nov. 22 layoffs come less than a month after the commercial refrigerator manufacturer laid off 250 union workers at the plant. Since Ingersoll-Rand Co. Ltd. purchased Hussmann in June 2000 for $1.7 billion in cash, the company has laid off nearly 1,000 union workers or 54 percent of its work force, according to Gary Reay, president of the United Steel Workers of America, Local 9014. "In December of 2000 we had 1,800 people employed here," Reay said. "We're down to 830 union employees." Reay said Ingersoll-Rand has notified the union that further layoffs are in the works. Paul Dickard, Ingersoll-Rand's director of investor relations in Woodcliff Lake, N.J., said he was not aware of the most recent round of layoffs at Hussmann, and would not comment on the reason for the additional layoffs. Last month, however, Dickard told the Business Journal the layoffs stem from two years of double-digit declines in the company's refrigeration division. Ingersoll-Rand, which is registered in Bermuda, is a multinational manufacturer of industrial and commercial equipment and components. In 2001, the company employed 56,000 people throughout the world and reported sales of $9.6 billion. Hussmann is known worldwide for its refrigerated cases used in supermarkets and convenience stores. The Bridgeton plant is the flagship for Ingersoll-Rand's climate-control unit, which had revenue of $640 million for the quarter ended Sept. 30 and operating income of $41 million. Reay said he believes the most recent layoffs were a result of the company moving more of its refrigerator manufacturing to its Mexican facility. Dickard would not confirm that. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

It was a spelling mistake. You want the correction? Here it is. Exorbitant. Are you happy? Do I get my smiling grade, now? "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Linz, pretty much hit the nail on the head. My view is that this is what the song is about. Throughout our history there has been an enormous amount of injustice and the people recognized it and remedied the problem to make the US a greater nation that the world can see that all is not lost. The people have the right to rebel against the government if the government lose sight and waver from the path. I admire those who stand up and tell the powers that be where to shove it. That takes determination and a lot of guts as by doing so you open yourself up to investigation and to the critics. This happened to those who went against Joseph McCarthy. They were labeled as "commies" and many lost everything. Imagine how today would be if McCarthy was not exposed as a tyrannical nut. There is so much talk about spying on the people and that it is needed to find the bad guys. Well, in order to find the bad, you have to go down the entire list. Maybe that white middle class family down the street with 2.2 kids and a dog in the yard are part of a terrorist network. How will you ever know unless you look at everyone. What is the cost in order to expose them? The cost is being scrutinized yourself. So, you are not a terrorist, you have nothing to worry about if the government picks your life apart in order to learn you are not. Would you want to be under the light for them to be able to move on to the next person and pick them apart? I wouldn't and I don't. I have skeletons in my closet, just like you and you and you. We all do. I do not want the government going through my closet. I do not want them in my house, period. I do not want a return to the McCarthy era. I am not willing to give up my privacy in the name of "national security". Are you? "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young