ChangoLanzao

To answer YOUR question You are responsible for you own actions. Crime = time Actions = consequence Being a Good Samaritan does not erase ones transgressions Do you think Elian Gonzales should have been deported?

considering other agents have been put in jail for doing their jobs, yeah. Me, with my current training... I'd have cut and run. AND I have the balls to say it. put me through their training, give me their resources, I might know more about what's available and my answer might change. Until then, yeah, I'd cut and run to my vehicle where a rock, or brick, or cinder block wouldn't injure me. This would have been the best approach.

To answer YOUR question You are responsible for you own actions. Crime = time Actions = consequence Being a Good Samaritan does not erase ones transgressions So you agree that Dick Chaney and George Bush should be deported to the Haigh for processing as war criminals right?

This is why I voted "stay". There was no choice for "it depends". So I picked one of the other two randomly.

And just imagine if they have kids while they are here and we revoke the kids citizenship. Then we could make the children work for us for even less.

These frequent amnesty programs only increase the incentives to cross the border. It's also quite unfair to those who try to immigrate by established process. True ... that is why the most important option by far is the one that we are not doing: enforce the existing laws against hiring illegals. So you agree that it is opk that illegal aliens are here, you just don't want them working. No. I think illegal aliens are already here and working. They will keep coming and working as long as Americans hire them. If Americans don't think that is OK, they should stop hiring them if they don't want them to come. Doing things like modifying the 14th amendment to deny their U.S. - born children citizenship is fundamentally un-American. That was the topic of this thread.

CLICKY

These frequent amnesty programs only increase the incentives to cross the border. It's also quite unfair to those who try to immigrate by established process. True ... that is why the most important option by far is the one that we are not doing: enforce the existing laws against hiring illegals.

so you agree that gun registries are all about confiscation then. So you think FELONS should be allowed to keep their guns, then. I think felons should not be sold guns. I think felons are already not allowed to possess firearms. You are seeming to imply that once someone becomes a felon (my caps lock key isn't stuck) that the police should come confiscate their weapons. Is that correct? I may have inferred incorrectly. You are seeming to imply that it's OK for FELONS to have gun collections but not OK for them to purchase guns legally.

Another option, of course, is to grant amnesty to all of those illegals who are already here, are working productively, paying taxes, and have families, so that they can become citizens of the U.S. and benefit from the protections of the 14th amendment. Then, we don't have to spend as much resources on all the other options But that wouldn't satisfy the punitive urges of the conservatives. It would make the racists extremely unhappy too.

ROFLMAO...Really? Did you not watch him for 8 years while Bush was President? Nice "try" at a spin , but a total failure... Maybe not a good spin, but damn fine sarcasm. At least for those of us who got it. Maybe if I knew th eposter better, I would have caught it...we seriously need a [/sarcasim] feature! But that would take all the fun out of this!

Here's another view. CLICKY

Another option, of course, is to grant amnesty to all of those illegals who are already here, are working productively, paying taxes, and have families, so that they can become citizens of the U.S. and benefit from the protections of the 14th amendment. Then, we don't have to spend as much resources on all the other options

The police should approach every felon as if they might be armed, regardless of whether or not their name is in some gun registry. Agreed. It would also be nice to know that said FELON had any (previously legal) guns hidden away. It makes no difference - they should still approach him as if he does. In a society in which everyone has a gun collection, it's not just the FELONS that the police would approach in this manner.

all of your sarcasm aside, this is where the solution lies. Punishment for employers of illegal immigrants. That is only a partial solution. The other part, the biggest part and the most crucial part is to secure the borders. Effective implementation of the first option is essential. Without that, the second part becomes astronomically expensive and ugly. It already is - But you are missing a third part of the solution. REQUIRE that the bordering countries provide more assistance in the securing of the border and MUCH less advocation. Keep the monies here somehow, and there will be less incentive to illegally enter. That would be nice, but not as effective and certainly not very enforceable. Let's enforce our own hiring laws before we focus on forcing Mexico to make it's citizens happier WHY can't we do all of those things simultaneously? Do you have a reason NOT to? Take away logistics and answer the question that way. That's fine, but without placing a very high priority on the first, the other two will go nowhere. (pretty close to the current situation) Placing top priority on either of the other two is futile.

all of your sarcasm aside, this is where the solution lies. Punishment for employers of illegal immigrants. That is only a partial solution. The other part, the biggest part and the most crucial part is to secure the borders. Effective implementation of the first option is essential. Without that, the second part becomes astronomically expensive and ugly. It already is - But you are missing a third part of the solution. REQUIRE that the bordering countries provide more assistance in the securing of the border and MUCH less advocation. Keep the monies here somehow, and there will be less incentive to illegally enter. That would be nice, but not as effective and certainly not very enforceable. Let's enforce our own hiring laws before we focus on forcing Mexico to make it's citizens happier

What part is offensive in that one? It was a PA. Pretty much the entire post was about Lucky, rather than about the subject being discussed.

all of your sarcasm aside, this is where the solution lies. Punishment for employers of illegal immigrants. That is only a partial solution. The other part, the biggest part and the most crucial part is to secure the borders. Effective implementation of the first option is essential. Without that, the second part becomes astronomically expensive and ugly.

ok....MANDATORY STERILIZATION for all illegal aliens. Just to be sure, sex would be a felony. Sarcasm is a wonderful thing

it's called jail and why are you so stuck on class - any INDIVIDUAL that commits and illegal act on another individual should go to jail as for 'exploitation' - how subjective can you be? One group hires illegally - that's a crime the other enters illegally - that's a separate crime we have to address both crimes - it's not "either/or" like you guys can't seem to grasp Sorry, I should gave provided a sarcasm button for you. ETA: We are talking about the children (and their children ...). Easy Solution . . . kid is a citizen, gets a birth certificate - Parents deported and can come back when legally allowed. So we agree. The kids are and should be U.S. citizens. (deportation of the parents is a separate issue)

it's called jail and why are you so stuck on class - any INDIVIDUAL that commits and illegal act on another individual should go to jail as for 'exploitation' - how subjective can you be? One group hires illegally - that's a crime the other enters illegally - that's a separate crime we have to address both crimes - it's not "either/or" like you guys can't seem to grasp Sorry, I should gave provided a sarcasm button for you. ETA: We are talking about the children (and their children ...).

I think that people born in the U.S. are U.S. citizens. Period. Care to answer the question I actually asked? (by the way, I don't disagree that people born in the US are US citizens except for diplomats and the like) No. I don't wish to answer your question. It is irrelevent. It is definately relevant. It bears down directly to the "new citizen" freshly born. Whether or not the parents should be deported is an entirely seperate issue. Tweaking the 14th amendment in order to revoke/deny citizenship of a particular group of people who are born in the U.S. means that states could pass laws which severely infringe on those groups' human rights. This is NOT the way to deal with illegal immigration. As long as we have large numbers of illegal immigrants being hired exploited by U.S. citizens who employ them, they - an even their relatives/friends who have followed them to seek a better life here - are going to have some children born in U.S. territory. If those children are denied citizenship and they have children too (and so on), then we end up with a resident population of generations of people who are born in the U.S., but are not accorded all of the protections of the Bill of Rights. Hmmm .... sound familiar? The 14th amendment was intended to remedy just that situation! How about instead if we revoke the citizenship of any Americans who illegally hire and exploit a class of people?

It's a flawed "study" by a well-known Libertarian kook. CLICKY

I think that people born in the U.S. are U.S. citizens. Period. Care to answer the question I actually asked? (by the way, I don't disagree that people born in the US are US citizens except for diplomats and the like) No. I don't wish to answer your question. It is irrelevent.

I think that people born in the U.S. are U.S. citizens. Period.