Kennedy

Jesus Mary and Joseph, between you and Dekker I'm never going to get anything done. There's a big difference between "they were armed" and "thought they were armed." Besides, does a person become a threat just because they are holding a gun? No. They have to take action that makes you fear death/GBH. If they were armed, maybe he could make some sort of justifiability argument. They weren't. They were running away. I haven't passed judgment on the first shooting because the details of what went on aren't known to us. Leave that to fornesics and trial. However, the rest of the deaths were murder, no two ways about it. In your scenario, maybe shooting the first guy to confront him wouldn't be murder. I don't know so haven't said on way or the other. It's possible, but so are a lot of more dmaning scenarios. It doesn't even have to be a real gun, let alone be loaded. The person being threatened with an unloaded gun has no way of knowing whether the gun is loaded or not. For his own safety, he obviously has to treat it as if it were. I have to tell you, if someone is pointing a gun at me shouting that they are going to kill me, I'm going to believe him. I'm also going to do everything in my power to stop him. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

I worked crime scenes and firearms with a very "busy" county police department. I wouldn't embellish because there isn't very much you can change that won't raise a bullshit flag. Well, not much of substance anyway. Since I know I'm not a murderer, I wouldn't need to emblellish my tale of woe to keep myself on the up and up. Like my sig line used to be: witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Oh nothing, I just like it when liberals have to face the fact that they agree with Buchanan. It really makes some people squirm. I agree one must wonder how we will meet our current and future obligations. We are going to need bigger forces or fewer obligations. Neither will be easy, and maybe both would be a good idea at first, but he, nobody's asking me. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

When did I ever say that hitting someone in the back is automatically murder? I said shooting someone in the bakc who is fleeing without a gun is murder. In self defense scenarios it is very easy to hit a person in the back. Simplest example: Someone attacks me. I shoot and hit him a little off the center line. He curls his upper body around the wound but continues to advance. I shoot again. He spins but continues foward, I fire once more, and he turns so that the bullet enters his back. Would you say I murdered him? However, the guy in the woods shot people who were running away unarmed. He murdered them. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

You saying you agree with Pat Buchanan? A Rebulic, Not An Empire witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

The Democratic National Committee announced today that the Democratic Party is changing its emblem from an ass to a condom. The committee chairman explained that the condom more clearly reflects the party's stance today, because a condom accepts inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of pricks, and gives you a sense of security while you're actually getting screwed! There we go. Just as valid. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

When it comes down to it, the standard is what a reasonable person would perceive as a threat of death/GBH. (actually, twelve "reasonable people" if you want to nit pick) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Marines in Iraq have slightly different guidelines as to what they can shoot and what they can't. If you can justify shooting someone in the back, who's running away without a gun, then Bill, I think I could justify shoting just about anyone under any circumstances whatsoever. We're at a DZ near LA. I cut you off undercanopy for whatever reason. You read me the riot act. Let's say I decide to give you a little whatfor. You then turn around and storm off. I'll just shoot you in the back, and say I thought you were going to get your gun. Does that work for you? (you know me well enough to know I'm not really threatening you) Come on. Shooting unarmed people in the back as they move away from you is just not justifiable (outside the military). edit: spelling witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Hear, hear! What do you think about the National ID cards provision? (inserting RFID chips is not included yet, but not out of the quesiton either) Who here is comforatble with beigntracked through airports, toll plazas, roadside checkpoints, etc, with nothingmore then a chip reader? I'm sure as hell not. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Just show me where the Supreme Court was intended to examine foreign laws rather than the constitution, if you please. If the constitution doesn't cover it, then the SCUS should LEAVE IT ALONE!! witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

I'd love to, but it's just after 10:00am here, and I've got a ton of stuff to do today. However, I'll be taking that advice later on today, I GAR-on-tee. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

H.R.10 Title: To provide for reform of the intelligence community, terrorism prevention and prosecution, border security, and international cooperation and coordination, and for other purposes. Latest Major Action: 10/8/2004 Passed/agreed to in House. Status: On passage Passed by recorded vote: 282 - 134 (Roll no. 523). Note: Per H.Res. 827, the House shall be considered to have inserted H.R. 10 - as passed House - in S. 2845, insisted on its amendment to S. 2845, and requested a conference with the Senate. For further action, see S. 2845. The texts of H.R. 10 / S. 2845 as passed House and as passed Senate are not yet available from the Government Printing Office. SUMMARY AS OF: 9/24/2004--Introduced. 9/11 Recommendations Implementation Act - National Security Intelligence Improvement Act of 2004 - Establishes a National Intelligence Director (Director) to, among other things: (1) serve as the head of the intelligence community (IC); (2) act as principal adviser for intelligence matters related to national security; and (3) manage, oversee, and direct the execution of the National Intelligence Program (formerly the National Foreign Intelligence Program). Establishes a National Intelligence Council to produce national intelligence estimates for the U.S. Government and evaluate the collection and production of intelligence by the IC. Establishes a National Counterterrorism Center to: (1) analyze and integrate all U.S. intelligence pertaining to terrorism and counterterrorism; (2) conduct strategic operational planning for counterterrorism activities; and (3) ensure that intelligence agencies have access to and receive all intelligence needed to accomplish their missions. Establishes a: (1) Civil Liberties Protection Officer; and (2) Joint Intelligence Community Council. Authorizes the: (1) Secretary of Defense and the Director to jointly establish a program to advance foreign languages skills in languages critical to the capability of the IC to carry out U.S. national security objectives; and (2) assignment of IC personnel as language students. Requires the Director to conduct a pilot project to establish a Civilian Linguist Reserve Corps. Establishes the National Security Agency Emerging Technologies Panel to advise the Director on the research, development, and application of existing and emerging science and technology advances, advances in encryption, and other topics. Stop Terrorist and Military Hoaxes Act of 2004 - Provides criminal and civil penalties for false information concerning terrorist activities and military hoaxes. Material Support to Terrorism Prohibition Enhancement Act of 2004 - Provides criminal penalties for: (1) receiving military-type training from a foreign terrorist organization; and (2) providing material support to terrorism. Weapons of Mass Destruction Prohibition Improvement Act of 2004 - Expands the jurisdictional bases and scope of the prohibition against weapons of mass destruction (WMDs). Includes chemical weapons within the definition of WMDs. Provides criminal liability for participation in nuclear and WMD threats against the United States. Money Laundering Abatement and Financial Antiterrorism Technical Corrections Act of 2004 - Provides additional funding to combat crimes involving terrorist financing. Criminal History Access Means Protection of Infrastructures and Our Nation - Requires the Attorney General to establish and maintain criminal history information checks for use by employers. Provides for the use of biometric technology in airport access control systems. Directs the Secretary of Homeland Security to prepare and update a transportation security strategic plan for defending aviation assets. Provides for: (1) next-generation airline passenger screening systems; (2) the deployment and use of explosive detection equipment at airport screening checkpoints; and (3) a pilot program to evaluate the use of blast-resistant cargo and baggage containers. Requires the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to establish a: (1) comprehensive intelligence program for FBI intelligence analysts and intelligence production, sources, and operations; and (2) national security workforce of agents, analysts, linguists, and surveillance specialists. Increases the number of full-time border patrol agents and immigration and customs enforcement investigators. Provides: (1) for expedited deportation of alien terrorists and supporters of terrorism; (2) minimum documentation requirements and issuance standards, for Federal recognition purposes, for driver's licenses, identification cards, and birth certificates; and (3) measures to enhance the privacy and integrity of social security numbers. Establishes within the State Department an Office of Visa and Passport Security. Requires specified reports concerning terrorist sanctuaries, including a priority list of countries providing such sanctuaries. Afghanistan Freedom Support Act Amendments of 2004 - Provides for the coordination of assistance to Afghanistan for various freedom support activities, and requires a long-term U.S. strategy with respect to such country. Authorizes assistance for counternarcotics efforts in Afghanistan. Outlines provisions concerning appropriate U.S. relations with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Requires the President to pursue international diplomatic and cooperative efforts to limit the availability, proliferation, and transfer of man-portable air defense systems (MANPADS) (individual-fired surface-to-air missiles). Commends the use of multilateral organizations for fighting terrorist financing. Establishes an International Terrorist Finance Coordinating Council. Faster and Smarter Funding for First Responders Act of 2004 - Authorizes grants to improve first responder capabilities and to establish essential capabilities for emergency preparedness. Provides for congressional oversight over the Department of Homeland Security. Establishes an Office of Counternarcotics Enforcement. Requires public financial disclosure with respect to certain IC employees. Authorizes the FBI Director to establish an FBI Reserve Service for the temporary reemployment of former FBI employees during periods of emergencies. Revises security clearance requirements and procedures. Federal Agency Protection of Privacy Act of 2004 - Requires Federal agency rulemakings to take into consideration rule impacts on individual privacy. Requires the establishment of chief privacy officers for agencies with law enforcement or antiterrorism functions. Mutual Aid and Litigation Management Authorization Act of 2004 - Authorizes: (1) mutual aid agreements for utilities and services support during an emergency or public service event; and (2) litigation management agreements for limiting legal action against emergency response providers. Calls for adoption of the National Incident Management System. Expresses the sense of Congress that the Secretary of Defense should regularly assess the adequacy of the United States Northern Command to respond to all military and paramilitary threats within the United States. http://news.google.com/news?q=HR%2010&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wn witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Quote...i'm curious to find how many of those people had it coming. [/reply That's one more point often left out by gun-banners: most murders are urban felons knocking off other urban felons. But that's a sociological statement, and it's much easier to just blame a piece of metal and wood or plastic. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Fuck, and I thought I had weird dreams! witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

http://www.tripletsandus.com/80s/80s_games/arcade.htm witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Is Jabba holding an einfield or a springfield? (and wouldn't a blaster and lightsaber be more appropriate?) Oh, and since Ivan hasn't popped in yet, Jabba is spelled with two Bs. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Not quite Tink. You're just so far left that anyone near the center seems rightwing to you. In my experience, most jumpers don't give a flying F#@& about any given issue, including politics overall, as expressed by party choice. Those jumpers that do care, however, tend to be much more well read and informed about politics. I guess people who are interested but not excited about a topic don't get into skydiving. How many skydivers do you know who jump but don't really know all that much about it? I think that personality trait carries over into other aspects of life. I guess jumpers just tend to go big or go home on most topics. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

More than you might think. Some asshole cut me off in DC traffic, flipped me the bird, then got out and came at me/my car with a wrench in hand. No idea what was in this idiot's head, as I hadn't even looked at him cross-eyed. (I was in the slow lane, and he came along the driver's side. I just drove into the shoulder and took off for the nearest exit) Guns are effective at winning violent confrontations. Take them away and violent people will just move to the next most effective tool. Wrenches, tire irons, knives, and so on. Would you feel better about a road rage incident if you read that the victim were beaten to death instead of shot? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Do you really think it's hard for criminals to get guns in the UK? You're dreaming. The criminals that want them will always be able to get them. It's called the black market, and no law has ever been able to shut it down. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Who cares what weapon was used to commit the murder? How does that make any difference one way or the other? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Then why are more deaths in "crimes of passion" by blunt force trama than guns? People not familiar with guns often think it is easy to have one at hand all the time. People who never considered carrying have no idea what a pain in the ass they can be sometimes. Oh, and quade, Ron is right. It's just as easy to pick something up and bludgeon a person to death. And there's always something heavy at hand. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Somehow I can't see them doing Finnigan's Wake or Black Velvet Band to follow it up. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

TO my knowledge, nothing in the PDF answers that, but I can do it myself. That only addresses gun deaths. Ridiculous. FIrst off, cut the nubmer for America in half. Why? More than half were suicides. Hardly relevant when talking about homicide, don't you think? Second, why limit it only to gun homicides. Are they somehow worse than other homicides? Why don't you go back to teh statistics for those countries and tell me how many homicides they had. All homicides. Then compare that number to the 16,000 or so for the US. With those numbers in hand maybe then we can address the sociological issues concerning whether or not Americans are more homicidally inclined than people elsewhere. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Holy crap we just agreed on something. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Not in the slightest. If you can show that the spreader was aware of the disease and took no steps to avoid spreading it, nail the fucker. If it's a disease that can kill a person, some form of homicide or inchoate homicide charges should not be out of the question. (yeah, I know what inchoate means. ain't I speshal?) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*