skydived19006

Yeah, I understand parasitic drag, but is it really all that big of a deal on a tandem system? I think I'd rather have a little more drag, than going out of trim with Spectra! One other reason for my opinion is based on the fact that it's also Bill Booth's opinion. When Bill Booth talks people listen. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I don't like Vectran line for tandem canopies at all! It doesn’t cushion openings at all, the life seems to be only 2 to 300 before it breaks (I’m not in the desert either), I just see no advantage to it. Two of my Icarus canopies have spectra, but I'm going to migrate back to Dacron. Dacron has the most stretch, as I understand will not distort like Spectra, drag isn't much of an issue on tandems, and pack volume isn't an problem (I have a 330 and 2 365s, if I had a 400 the pack volume might be an issue) Can anyone give me any reason why Dacron isn't the line of choice for tandem canopies? I assume it's only the pack volume? I’m unfamiliar with the HOP, who manufactures it? It’s interesting how much of an issue this has became since the FARs changed! I understand Ted Strong “does not allow” anything other than his canopies in his containers. Can anyone point to a case where he tired to enforce this policy, and how? Is there something contractual? Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I was told that I should contact Kelly Farrington for Jim Cizar pilot chutes. "Kelly Farrington at Velocity Sports (makers of the Infinity)." Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I'd like to demo a few such as the Firebolt, A2 and the Atair. Who knows, I might learn something and buy different next time I need a new tandem canopy! Atair has belly camera video on their site, the openings are VERY staged, and slow! Check it out. http://www.atairaerodynamics.com/canopies/tandem.html Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I’d start off, but I don’t have a wide range of experience with various tandem canopies. I just saw that Atair has a tandem main, and was wondering what they flew like. Anyway, I looked around and couldn’t really find any threads comparing just the tandem mains, and there are a lot of them out there these days. Modern Tandem mains I know of; Icarus (what I jump) Precision (basically the same as Icarus although the manufactures both argue that theirs is better) Sigma Strong SET Racer Firebolt Aerodyne A2 Atair Cobalt Tandem Did I miss any? It seems to me form what I’ve seen here that the Icarus/Precision, and Sigma are fairly comparable, as with the A2. Does anyone have any experience with the Cobalt Tandem? I know that some people don’t like the lake of break settings on the Icarus; they seldom open on heading, but almost always soft, and virtually never twist into line twists. Landings are good, but virtually never stand up in no wind (straight in approach), just too much ground speed left. Martin Air Capital Drop Zone Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I was searching around here for some information on pilot chutes, and came across this old thread. I need to replace a few on my student rigs, and with the large canopies that I have in some of them I thought it would be nice to actually size the PCs to the canopies. Long-story-short, I’d love to get in touch with Jim Cazar and buy a few pilot chutes form him, but haven’t been able to find any contact information for him. Can someone PM me his contact info? Thanks Martin Myrtle Air Capital Drop Zone Wichita Kansas Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I’m no expert on the subject, but there are different methods to measure a canopy. I was told by Egon of RWS that PD uses a different method than the “standard PIA” method, and that PDs canopies would measure larger using the PIA method. I think the PIA method is the actual square footage if the canopy were laid flat, and the way PD does it across the area after it’s inflated? Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I think the poll would be more useful if you broke it into recip and turbine. I doubt there are many 182 DZs going to 13,500, lol! I run a one 182 DZ, we go to 11k, with a 1,300 ground elevation. I think the norm for Cessnas (not Caravan) is on average lower than 11k. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I sold that PD 260 10 years ago, have no idea where it may be now. Depending on how heavy you are you wouldn't want a PD260 anyway. The Saber is basically the same canopy as the PD but it's ZP. You might want to look for a Saber in the 220/230 range? I'd advise finding a good used main, as you'll want to change again in 100+ jumps. That said good used large ZP canopies are not that easy to come by. You should have paid us a visit when you were here. I know especially when a student, most want to stay with what they know. Reminds me of my kindergerten teacher, she was the BEST, then I met my first grade teacher. Turns out the kindergerten teacher was actually not so hot after all. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I think to say that swooping anything over 400 feet is "easy" is just not right Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Well, it would appear that I stepped on a nerve with this one! The RWS does set the lead the way and the rest of the industry trys to keep up (I’m sure John Sherman and a few others would disagree, but that’s another topic altogether) Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

You're excused, Wing loading is the main determining factor in speed/performance. Next time you see a fighter airplane note that the wings are dramatically smaller than something that's not designed to go so fast. Brian Germain just released a really cool new book “The Parachute and It’s Pilot” among other things he goes into the dynamics of parachutes, check it out. http://www.bigairsportz.com/publishing.php Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I’ve jumped a very wide verity of canopies over the years, my main right now is a Crossfire 159 and I can shoot good accuracy with it. I jumped a newly hooked up PD 280 in one of my student rigs the other day; I flew it down like an accuracy jumper and landed dead center! I also land tandems consistently very close to target in all kinds of wind conditions, loaded lightly to heavy. All of this still doesn’t change the fact that I would like to have the option to load my main to 1.5 and my reserve to 1.1. Back to the original topic, I just thought it very ironic that Bill Wells is preaching how skydivers will choose style over safety, as in “I want a small reserve so I can have a really cool and small container”. The paradox is that RWS can not readily provide for someone who would rather be somewhat conservative with their choice of reserve. BTW, anyone want to trade a PD218R (I have the 218), for a PD193R? One more reason for my choice of reserve is that I have the damn thing! I don’t know, maybe I don’t really “need” a new container after all? I'd still be interested in hearing what Bill has to say, guess he's out of town or something. Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I’m in the process of ordering a new Vector; I’m 6’8 and about 210 lbs. I’ve been jumping a Javelin J7 that came “off the shelf” for over 10 years; it’s never fit me right but is not uncomfortable. It is a large container, but then again I’m a fairly large guy! I currently have a Raven 3, and an Icarus Crossfire 159 (which if very lose to say the least), I started out with a PD 260 main years ago, which wasn’t a problem packing into it. If I ever get the Vector worked out, the big Javelin will be for sale if you’re interested. My main lift web on the new Vector will be 21 or 22”. I have a pants inseam of 36, but measuring tight at the top, it’s more like 38”, which makes for a bit of a long torso! Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I've seen a couple of instances where a cypress saved someone. The first was a jumper who got over a formation dropped on it, and dislocated both shoulders. Now think about landing a hot shot reserve in someone’s back yard without the ability to use the toggles! Even with a rather large reserve you're looking at an ambulance ride, but with a highly loaded reserve it may be a meat wagon ride, directly to the morgue. I could land a 150 sf reserve loaded at 1.5 in good, and bad circumstances, it’s the worst case that’s the problem. The main’s there to have fun with, the reserve’s there to save our lives! I just thought it was seriously ironic that Bill is so often preaching how skydivers are all about style over safety, then I find that you’re almost forced to match canopy sizes in his containers! Seems more reasonable to expect that people would have a larger reserve than main than reserve these days with the common main canopy loading. Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I almost always learn something when reading Bill Booths posts, and I love this article by Bill! It really puts things in perspective. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=19 Not the reason for my post though. I’m in the process of ordering a new V3, I’m the type of guy that would like to have a concretively loaded reserve (240 geared PD 218), and a 1.5 loaded main (Icarus 159). Problem is rigs are not configured for this combination of canopies! Bill, help me out! What happened to safety over style? I know it’s because this is what people want, and the manufacturer has to make what sells. I’ll work out my little issue directly (through my dealer) with RWS. I just thought it would be interesting for us all to get Bills thoughts on the issue. Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Thanks Bill! That’s good enough for me. I had decided to go with Dacron, but the reference in this thread to a two fold increase in malfunction rate with worn Dacron lined tandem canopies concerned me a bit. I don’t have a problem with replacing line sets every 500 jumps or so, for us that’s only one line set a year. Besides, my neck isn’t as young as it used to be either! Martin AC DZ Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I basically just picked a post to reply to. Generally, I think Bill Booth knows a little more about skydiving gear than I do!!! If his preference if Dacron on his tandem rigs, that’s good enough for me! Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

So, what type of line do the different manufacturers use on their tandem canopies as “standard”? I still have one Icarus tandem canopy with Vectran, and had decided to go with Dacron when I get it relined. Now I see that Dacron tends to get bulky with wear (even more bulky than it is new), which may lead to a slider hanging up. The pack volume and drag are not a deciding issue for me on my tandem canopies. What I would like is something that will stretch on opening, but not distort much, which lead me back to Dacron. What I’m really not interested in is increasing my malfunction rate (over 600 tandems and no malfunctions)! What line do you prefer on your tandem canopies, and why? Martin Air Capital Drop Zone Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Vector could consider (I’m sure they have) offering a “standard” and basic container system in a few sizes, and one color in order to offer a lower cost alternative. Not that this idea is anything new, my guess would be that in the long run people would end up preferring to pay for the custom rig anyway. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Just FYI, I saw that Couch Freaks 2005 will have “Brand New Women Only Showers!” Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

There just isn’t the population density out here to support a turbine AC. Been tried, didn’t work. What we need is a guy like yourself who could do a little creative accounting for one of your clients. I’m sure they wouldn’t miss a measly million bucks, and keep it coming. The DZs in Oklahoma and Kansas couldn’t afford to keep a turbine AC if it were given to them. Martin Air Capital Drop Zone (one piston Cessna) Wichita Kansas 174 miles NW of Tulsa Oklahoma Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Horse Whisiperer, I'm not very good though so I slip the horses the drugs. Strangly they seem to regress after I leave. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I saw a guy meet his maker jumping a wing suit, he apparently flipped through the risers on opening, conjecture would say that he was still carrying too much forward speed at deployment. He was so entangled in the lines that he had no options, couldn’t even get to his cutaway handle. Had canopy out but in a hard turn form 4k to impact. I guess that it this one would be an “other”. I have a very sad feeling typing this! And we defiantly miss him!!! Any malfunction that your options are non existent would be the worst! Take for instance a canopy collision at low tude!? Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Cool Idea, although this is the norm at my little Kansas, one Cessna DZ. By the time someone has anywhere near 100 jumps (for that matter by the time they get their "A" they've been around for months training IAD) with us they're one of the family! Most people would argue that AFF is the Sh*t without compare, other than maybe the money. I'd say that the more time consuming methods still have a thing or two to offer! Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ