skydived19006

I just set up a paid sponsor advertisement with Goggle, and now understand how charges for these ads are calculated. I pay when someone searches Goggle, and links to my site through the “paid sponsor” link. If two businesses come up it’s an action, whoever offered to pay the most will be at the top, you set your own limits for per click through, and a daily limit. Any time someone clicks any of the Skyride paid sponsor links Cary Q is charged for that click through. I would never suggest that people purposely click on Cary’s links just to transfer money form his pocket to Goggles pocket. I don’t know whether the sponsor gets charged for the same ip if that person clicks through multiple times or not, maybe someone else does. It is interesting, you might even want to pass this little bit of trivia to your skydiving friends? I set up for key words such as “skydive Wichita” “skydiving Wichita” and also my add only comes up the geographical areas I specified. I will pay a max of $2.00 a day, something for DZs to consider. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Air Capital Drop Zone (Wichita Kansas) is one of the two DZs Jan has helped recently to improve my website. I don’t know exactly how much time Jan spent, but she did type a couple of emails similar in length to the post I’m replying to right now. She didn’t charge me for the extremely helpful advice, but I would not hesitate to pay her for her services! http://www.makeithappen.com/ one of her sites For anyone who does not know Jan Meyer (MakeItHappen) is a USPA national director. Also for anyone who didn’t know (and a reminder to those who did) the deadline for voting is December 31. I would certainly think that if you are interested in doing something regarding Skyride, one of the easiest things to do would be to vote! I have no doubt that Jan will win reelection, but I also think that an overwhelming and unprecedented landfall for her would most defiantly give her some serious clout on the board! Ballot link http://www.uspa.org/news/bodelection/images/Web_Ballot_2004.pdf This post is by any definition a political endorsement, and normally might not belong in this forum but I think that Jan’s activity regarding Skyride defiantly should override if I’m breaking ‘forum norms’ by doing so. Martin Myrtle Air Capital Drop Zone Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I don’t see how it’s possible to charge $40 (25%) more than the DZ supposedly next door without being at least a little dishonest. After getting the credit card number “the total will be $198.45 with the instruction and gear rental”, “wait a minute, I thought the cost was $165.00, this is the first you told me about any “instruction, or gear charge””, “this is the industry standard, every drop zone charges for instruction and gear, they generally will not tell you until you’re at the DZ paying just before you jump.” You get the idea, and how about the $40 discount working out to the 198.45 as well? Or, how about telling someone on a Sunday at 11:00am in December (dark at 5:30) that their group of 5 will be going to a DZ 45 minutes away and that they will be able to jump today, then after taking their money giving them the phone number to a DZ 250 miles away for “specific directions”. This after the Skyride operator calls the DZ and is specifically instructed that in order to get a group of 5 tandems up that she will HAVE to get them to the DZ no later than 1:00pm! She did her job, Skyride got the money! I guess you’re probably correct, most skydiving business generally engage in these same types of practices. I guess that’s also how DZs that accept Skyride certificates justify doing business with them. IN REPLY TO I don't agree with their fraudulent practices, but Skyride does Advertise. I see their ad in my local newspaper everyday. If Skyride would refrain from stealing other people's property and their other various fraudulent practices, their basic marketing premise is a good one. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

This may be redundant for most of us but; I called Soaring Sports (Skyride) yesterday mainly to see where they might be telling someone form Wichita they are sending them to skydive. They're doing a $40 discount, strangely even after the discount the price is still 198.45 after the “discount” Bruce (not sure if that’s his real name) told me that I would go to between 10 and 14,000 feet, have 1 minute of freefall on a tandem which must be from 14k down to 4k, then I would have a 7 to 10 min canopy ride (I guess somehow we went back up to 7k+ when we opened, hell that’s what most Wafos think anyway). He told me that if I did the video I would get an “ESPN digital quality” video (I’m sure ESPN uses Sony PC cameras, you think?). As I said earlier the main purpose of my call was to see where he would be sending me for my skydive. They will not give the name of the DZ until they have the money for obvious reasons, but he did give me vague directions, which were to Air Capital Drop Zone again as stated earlier ACDZ no longer honors Skyride certificates. After Skyride has the customers money, finding a “Skyride DZ” becomes the customer’s problem. I guess it’s not all that far form Wichita Kansas to ASC, people are so spoiled with the “McDonalds mentality” these days. Shut up and make the drive! I had to press regarding the price as to whether the $165 was all I was going to pay “are their any taxes or other fees?” kind of thing, and Bruce (again, not sure if this is his real name) after a couple questions form different directions did finally tell me that there would be a charge for instruction and gear rental bring the “discounted” price to $198.45 for the tandem skydive. Next time I call I think I’ll see what happens if I tell them that I don’t want the “extras”. I can do without the instruction, and if the tandem instructor is willing to skydive without the aid of a deceleration device then lets get’re on! If they tell me that the airplane is “gear”, then they are not offering me a skydive as the parachute is optional (just required to skydive twice), but the aircraft is mandatory. That would be like a taxi service supplying the driver, but the car being an extra. “1800Skyride sells gift certificates for skydiving, along with other things such as Hot Air Balloon rides, glider rides, etc. The company markets itself nationally and those people that buy the certificates make a skydive at one of its participating centers. So the customer buys a certificate and then redeems it for a skydive. 1800Skyride advertises heavily and in return gets a lot of business...and in turn so do the participating centers. There is nothing wrong with that.” Mike Gruwell, copied/quoted form the ASC forum Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Are you sure you don't mean "the taste of chicken?" ;) poop, definatly poop. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

For the most part I agree about the personal attacks, that Chuting Star isn’t Skyride, and that Mike Gruwell isn’t “Mr. Skyride”. Mike does “tow the Skyride line”, there was/is a thread on the ASC site of which Mike Gruwell is the moderator. A couple of us put up a factual account of what Skyride does, we didn’t start the thread, didn’t flame ASC skydivers, just stated some of the facts regarding 1-800Skyride business practices. Mike deleated any posts with anything negative to say about Skyride, and he posted a nice little discription of how Skyride prevides a sweet little gift certificate service. Makes it sound like the kind of business my sweet little grandma would have loved to worked. You are absolutly correct that attacking Mike and Chuting Star isn’t addressing the Skyride problem. As far as working for a DZ that accepts Skyride certificates, I don’t really have a problem with that either. I was up until last week (did Skyride for 7 months) DZO of a DZ that accepted Skyride certificates. That said, I got fed up with the foul taste it left in my mouth (that would be the taste of poop). It was embarasing to me personally to have someone walk into my business with the perverbial Skyride dick still hanging out of their ass, and that I by association didn’t even offer any lubrication. If you don’t mind having a constant “poop” taste in your mouth, that’s none of my business. Martin AC DZ Edited to correct the “homonym problem” pointed out by Whiterabit. Spell check is great for us with a spelling defect, but the homonym thing gets me every time. Poor spellers of the world UNTIE! Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I appreciate the extra work you've given me. Of course it will be deleted. Mike I guess the truth does hurt? Never mind adressing the facts. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

That post was deleted in the ASC discussion fourm, I couldn't find it and the topic was "locked" I started a new topic and reposted it. Mike will delete it again, but we can at least be a pest. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

"hey thats great news. just to let you know, Kansas State University Parachute Club was approached by skyride and we told em no. The club officers decided that we would not take skyride anytime in the future either. You know of any kansas DZ's that take em? lets see if we can't make the entire state skyride free." I know that Jen Sharp (Skydive Kansas does not). I'm fairly sure that Skydive Wichita does not. That only leaves Supesville, I'm fairly sure Milton would tell them where to take their "ride". Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Let me tell you about my experience with Skyride. They originally contacted me about a year ago asking if I would be interested in taking business that they would send me. At that time my response was, “I’m in the phone book, I have a web site, anyone in my area will find me if they are interested in skydiving. No thank you. Bye”. In May of this year my wife takes a phone call form Skyride, “we have 5 tandems we would like to schedule with you”. Long story short, I did the tandems. I agreed to a price that was $10 less than my normal price. Since that time we have done just over 30 tandems referred form Skyride, we do about 200 tandems a year so that represented %15 of my student traffic for the year. I was correct in my original conversation with Skyride; anyone in my area that wanted to skydive did find me did directly. Every one of the 30+ tandems with the exception of 2, they sent me were form over 100 miles away, some coming form as far as 250 miles. This is Kansas, and the drop zones for the most part are spread out enough that we really don’t compete directly, that said most of these tandem customers were driving by another drop zone, or there was at least another DZ a lot closer. They recently put up a web site kansasskydiving.com, and within the site in several places used “Skydive Kansas”, which isn’t me but a friend of mine, so that was the last straw. If you’ve read this thread you are aware of the rest of the reasons so I won’t even go into the “list”. Again, long story short, I made a call this morning and I’m sure you will all be glad to know that Kansas is now once again a “Skyride free state”! It’s interesting, apparently Cary is very good at a lot of things including teaching people how to lie, act dumb, etc (I would like to read the “Skyride Mission Statement”, It could be extremely short something like “Get the fucking money, whatever it takes! The end justifies the means! Just get the FUCKING MONEY!”). I talked to my “Director of Center Procurement” she asked “Why…”, “I said that surely I didn’t need to list reasons that surely you are aware of the many reasons why I would like to dissociate my business with Skyride”. “Nope, not a clue why a drop zone wouldn’t want to deal with Skyride” so I told her that they consistently engage in immoral and illegal business practices, and that I didn’t want to be a part of it anymore. To this she wanted examples, so I gave her a few. Then she suggested that they could offer me more money. I told here that money wasn’t the issue and that if they paid me $200 a tandem it wouldn’t matter. Martin Myrtle Air Capital Drop Zone Wichita Kansas Skyride Free once again! Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Do you have any idea how deep your pockets are, and how much the club is willing do dump into your airplane? Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I’m curious if people routinely contest the credit card charges made by Skyride. I see posts here saying that someone called Skyride thinking that they were calling another DZ (or a real DZ for that matter), and made a credit card payment thinking that they were paying someone else. If I’ve ever heard an argument for a credit charge dispute that would have to be one of the best! What I’m getting at is if this is the case, why hasn’t their ability to clear credit cards been taken? I would think that with continuous “issues” whoever processes their transactions would have pulled the machine a long time ago. Is this not correct? If they can’t process credit card transactions they don’t do business. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I think that there are several existing threads on this topic. There is a local DZ that did the Texas Skyways 550 conversion, wing extensions, speed breaks, on an 182a. I think that they put about $80,000 in the upgrades and since have had several issues. Have had to replace several cylinders starting at about 500 hours (I think), and I have heard that there are problems with the speed breaks including cracking ect. They go to 12,000 agl (13,500 msl) with it and it does climb well to that tude, but I question the logic of putting that much capital in a 1959 182 to increase the climb rate a little. Not to mention the increased maintenance cost! Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

It's my understanding that you can jump into large events, regardless of the 3000' rule, if you can get your local FSDO to approve the waver you can do the demo. For some time after 9/11 all the deom wavers I filed had a line in it stating that we would not fly lower than 3000 feet above the open air assembly. There's no law against it, maybe something that Disney worked out, they do have just a bit of political clout! Disney is a company town in FL, they have their own police force, etc. Whoever's running the FSDO just needs to get a pair and approve the waver! Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Ok, It's a tandem rig, but I do think it's a good look'n rig none the less. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Thats what I resorted too. Its actually very cute

So if all the legit DZs were to create a “links” page and list all other legit DZs across the country, we would all be pushed to the top of searches? I know it would take a lot of work, a lot of cooperation, and for any politics between local DZs to be put aside, and I doubt that it would ever happen but it is a thought. I saw a site that had various locations in California listed as links at the bottom of their home page. These links for “SkydiveLA” took me to another page on the same site, for instance the FAQ page. Dose this work on the same theory to pick up more searches with these “links”? Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I may be a bit biased in my review of Air Capital Drop Zone (I’m the owner). But, I think you will not find a friendlier DZ anywhere. Our regular jumpers over the last few years have gravited to belly to earth RW, but free flyers can generally find a “buddy”. You will feel right at home half an hour after you arrive! Also, you won’t find a DZ with a better maintained and staffed fleet of aircraft (one Cessna 182). Our 182 has a new upgraded engine (2009), Texas Skyways O-520U/TS (that means more power!) and a very cool (sexy) Hartzell three blade prop. N8882X now has winter climb times of 13 minutes to 10k, we’ll see what she does in the heat this summer. We can now easily make in excess of 20 loads a day (7 +/- are generally tandem loads). AC DZ will employ only highly skilled Commercial pilots trained for skydiving operations, and never shortcuts maintenance! This may not be a big deal to a lot of skydivers, but the biggest risk you will take in skydiving is often in the ride to altitude. We also happen to be the closest Drop Zone to Wichita. From Kellogg and I-135 it’s only about a 15 minute drive. During Daylight Savings time we are open on Wednesday evenings form 4:00 to dark (subject to pilot availability). We generally have time to fly 8 loads on a Wednesday evening. Good times, sweet skydives! “We’re in the people please’n business!” Martin

"If you think accepting the certificates is a good thing, look for Skyride to open up a DZ near you and start taking your business away in the next few years." I was just “covering bases”, obviously more than a few DZs do think that accepting Skyride Certificates is a “good idea” as they do it. I did some “leg work” and found out that the idea of USPA increasing their web presence with paid sponsorship on the search engines came up at the last BOD meeting. Jan Meyer apparently brought up the subject and it received good support, at least form those on the board with some knowledge of the internet. I hadn’t personally considered having USPA act as a new booking agency, my thought was simply to help the customer get directly in contact with the DZ, and maybe to help them to tell the difference. Obviously USPA does not support the “virtual” drop zones that Skyride has running on the internet (I would assume). You have a very valid point about Skyride going into direct competition by opening their own DZs, but how is that any different than if I were to open a drop zone in your backyard (other than their dishonest and illegal activities). That said I don’t think I personally have much to worry about in Kansas. Nobody and I mean nobody makes their living form skydiving alone in Kansas. I’m not saying that it can’t be done I’ve seen it done in the past. If you are the DZO, Aircraft owner, do 90% of the tandems personally, maintain your AC poorly, and have an extremely low standard of living, you can make a “living” skydiving in Kansas. Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

The main reason (in my opinion) that Skyride gets as much business as they do is that they can afford a national paid sponsor presence on at least a few of the major search engines. I had thought that dropzone.com or USPA could become a paid sponsor on the search engines and act as a link site for drop zones (real not virtual/ghost). Problem is that this costs money and would have to be supported by the real drop zones across this greatest nation on earth! I’m not exactly sure how the DZOs could be convinced to “join” and pay their share of the related costs (and enough to afford a level of profit for Dropzone.com) if they were to take on the task. USPA would also be a logical entity to act as a middle man getting the customer directly to the real USPA group member drop zones. In order for USPA to support the idea they would again have to pass the cost along to the group members in the form of an increase in their dues. This is America and it’s a the free market, this would at least help to get the customer to the DZ and help to put us on an equal playing field (save the lying, and dirty tricks). There’s a general hatred throughout the industry (I think) for Skyride. Often the DZs don’t like to cooperate, but here we have the old “the enemy of my enemy is my ally” situation. I’m a small one Cessna DZ, and do between 2 and 300 tandem/first jump students a year. I’d be willing to pay an additional $50 or so a year to support the idea, and maybe a higher level commitment from the larger DZs. The larger DZs are the target of the higher level of fraud, etc and I’m sure they would all say that Skyride costs them considerable revenue. Even if Skyride brings additional students to a particular DZ, I would guess that every one of them would prefer the customer came directly to them, instead of being subject to Skyride! What do you think? Martin Myrtle Air Capital Drop Zone Wichita Kansas Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

N/A

Following is an email I sent to SANGARO regarding SKYRIDE. I’d like to see us all band together and put a collective “boot in their ass!” Any opinions or thoughts? Martin I’m sure you’re aware of the parasite on our industry by the name of 1-800-SKYRIDE. The main reason (in my opinion) they get as much business as they do is that they can afford a national paid sponsor presence on at least a few of the major search engines. I had thought that possibly you could collect memberships form the DZOs in order to afford the same nationally paid sponsor presence, and your site could act as the link site for the one time customer that we all understand is the main source or revenue in the industry. I’m not exactly sure how you could convince the DZOs to “join” and pay their share, maybe a “special” page that the customers are sent to with just the sponsoring DZs listed? There’s a general hatred throughout the industry (I think) for Skyride. The DZs generally don’t like to cooperate, but here we have the old “the enemy of my enemy is my ally” situation. I’m a small one Cessna DZ, and do between 2 and 300 tandem/first jump students a year. I’d gladly pay $100 or so for something like this. What do you think? Martin Myrtle Air Capital Drop Zone Wichita Kansas Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

My two are 9 months and 2.5 years, so I can relate. It’s really fun watching them learn to speak, and how they can turn things around. Kent (2.5 yo) has taken “you’re not supposed to have that”, to his version “supposed to have it”. And at the DZ when the “Beer Light” comes on, Kent is always more than happy to be the beer server! Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

We have six student rigs at my DZ, I keep a Triathlon 190 in one of them for the small first jump students (120 body weight or less), and for others to have a moderate canopy to transition down to. I keep a Mighty Mac for the bigger students, and the balance of the rigs have Mantas and Raven 4s. I’d love to upgrade some of the Mantas and Ravens to bit Triathlons (220, 230, 230s), Skymasters, or something comparable. Let me know if you have any lying around, and want to part with them for a reasonable price! The rigs do have adjustable lift webs, but are big on small people, and short on tall guys. Martin Air Capital Drop Zone Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Direct supervision also means the supervisor is in the A/C or in the class. NOT just in the john or next door. As I understand it if a Coach is "working" at all, it’s all under the "supervision" of an Instructor rated in the method (ie. Static line instructor can’t go out and do a “harness hold jump” with a student who’s having stability problems). I didn't know that the Instructor had to be on the airplane with the Coach. I thought that the Instructor was to review the students log book, reference the SIM/ISP as to what the student should be doing, review the oral questions if that had not been done (the oral quizzes should be noted in the student’s log book as well) (or maybe let the Coach review the oral quiz), consult with the Coach and student with regard to the jump freefall, and canopy progression. Coach goes and does the jump (instructor not in the Airplane). Get back with the Instructor after the jump to debrief, and sign off the log book. Is this generally what happens? I'm of the impression that a lot of the ISP is often disregarded, especially the oral quiz which is to be given at some point in each and every section before proceeding to the next. I've been around a lot longer than the ISP, and I've personally never seen every "t" crossed, and every "i" dotted. As for a Coach conducting a FJC, they can do everything except the “method specific”, or “the generic portion”. It has been stated that that is in a SL training method, everything except the exit, and static line handling. Comments? Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ