Lindsey

In that situation I would be asking if the family should be allowed to over-ride the decision of the deceased. The family already IS allowed to over-ride the decision of the dead guy. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

It's not too far away from the OP since the OP says that the state will not be allowed to over-ride family. Or are you asking if the original idea should be changed to allow the state to over-ride? This situation is a little different in that the deceased had checked the box on his driver's license stating his wish to donate his organs. If the family objects to organ donation, despite what the dead guy's driver's license shows, should the State be able to override the family's decision? I don't know, myself. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

That doesn't have anything to do with allowing the state to make the decision. The OP suggests that family could over-ride the state as well. The arguement isn't about whether or not family has a say in the matter, it's about whether the government does. I didn't actually say the problem that I was thinking of then. Should the State be able to over-ride the immediate family in making this decision? That's a step away from the original post, of course, but since the issue of driver's license is brought up, I think it's valid. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

In Ohio, all you have to do is check a box on your drivers license or state ID application. How lazy do you have to be to fail to check a box? A huge percentage of people carry a driver's license or state ID. That makes it easy for them. EXCEPT that even if a person has the box checked on his driver's license saying that he wants to donate his organs, a family member who doesn't want them donated can over-ride his decision. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

If the second scenario involved 6 people who were equally critically injured, and 5 would survive with the transplants from the 6th person, that issue isn't quite as clear, at least to me. In that situation I could see letting the one guy (the potential donor) die so that the others could be saved. I think in the first, there's something (though I can't quite put my finger on it) about them all being equally...or nearly equally victims. You're just deciding which way it's gonna go. Hmm... linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Allow the five to die and the one to recover, or use the organs of the less seriously injured worker and sacrifice him to save the other five? The moral course of action is to treat each patient to the best of your ability short of harming another person to improve the chances of any (or all) of the others. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Far too many of them seem to believe its a perfunctory duty within the bonds of marriage , only for procreation of their similar minded spawn. Its just alllll so biblical. That's funny. I doubt that the apes ever would have evolved into people if they followed those rules. Heh. Screwing is integral to our existence. Marriage is not. Screwing around will outlive the Republicans...lol. Thank Shiva! :) linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I'm apparently a little anal retentive. :) linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I think it's pretty clear that drinking in moderation is healthy. Decreases your risk of coronary artery disease, raises your HDL. BUT heavy drinking has some nasty effects--raises your blood pressure....and leads folks to do stupid stuff that sometimes leads to their demise. A little bit is good. A little bit more is not. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

"But I do NOT freebase cocaine. Now I'll take a drink. And I might even smoke a little reefer. I like to smoke.....reefer. You know it relaxes me and everything. A couple of doobies just to get me through the day and ever'thing. But as far as basin' goes, I don't do it. Now I'll do some TOOT, ya' know. Don't get me wrong. I WILL do some toot, ya' know. If you're partyin' and somebody comes up and offers it, it's IMPOLITE not to take it, ya' know. But I do NOT freebase cocaine." -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Sounds like YOU need to stop watching so much tv then. Heck, I haven't heard ANYTHING about the US elections beyond what I have sought out. But then I don't watch ANY tv, and am, therefore, out of most loops. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I have a chicken titty left, and some black beans and rice. A margarita. Indian out on the town sounds pretty good though. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Hey Marc! Good to see your smiling face...ummmm...Avatar. You haven't changed a bit. Peace~ linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Again, I do not want to stop you from having your kids taught that way. I am only asking that I be allowed to make those same type decisions for my kids. Good. Then it would be a good idea to make your child's school aware of your position and opt out of the sex ed class. Peace~ linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

okay, then the three most useless things The sky above you The runway behind you and the fuel in the fuel truck. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

YEp but I want thier values to come from me, not your government They teach values when they tell kids to "Just Say No to Drugs." In sex ed classes, what they teach is pretty neutral on values, imho. Do you disagree with schools teaching children that it's a bad idea for them to use drugs??? linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

How about the two most useless things in aviation: The sky above you and the runway behind you. :) linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Unless your children are never exposed to the world outside of your home, they're gonna learn a LOT that you don't teach them. I don't understand how it is that you have a right for your children to learn only what you want them to learn. I just don't get your thinking. As far as sex education being taught in the schools goes, it's a public health issue, for heaven's sake. People die from things they pick up through sexual contact. Seeing the prevalence of disease in society diminish is worth some decent education on the front-end. It would be stupid to assume that parents know anything at all about sexually transmitted disease.... Any parent who is involved with his children's education at all knows that sex education is coming during those pre-teen years. If he's concerned about his child getting correct information about something that pertains to every living human being, then there's always the alternative of being pro-active. Make sure the school understands your position before the deadline. Kind of a no-brainer. Kids are gonna learn all kinds of stuff from their friends (unless, again, they're segregated from society). A lot better that they get accurate information, imho. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

but in a broader sense, yes, parents SHOULD have complete control of the non three R's taught in school at a local level, as was inteneded ...which is why they shouldn't be taught religion in science class. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Most get away with these transgressions by good luck. and by enclosures that actually keep the animals in. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

You want to hide behind the law in the context of this discusion. Fine. I can only hope you think your position is OK when it comes to your children. It's hard being a parent. But I do think I'm covering all of the bases where my boy is concerned...at least in the context of this discussion. I'm personally open to what my son has to learn from other adults. If he were to go to a male physician to talk about sex, I'd be good with it myself. Being a single mom and someone who works waaaay too many hours, I appreciate help from the outside from time-to-time. If I'm not giving him all he needs in this regard, then I'm glad there are people who are willing to fill in the gaps. I don't think you're really appreciating where I'm coming from. I do wish I could call the shots here. On one hand, there are kids who get NOTHING from their parents. These kids are at great risk. I'm glad that they can come to me for some guidance. I'll spend as much time as they need...backing up the waiting room, of course. For these kids...whom most people would like to see off the dole....having someone to go to that they can trust may be their only opportunity to do things differently. I try to help them make decisions about all kinds of things that will affect their futures.... It's one of the things I do that I HIGHLY value. There are other kids who come from families that DO care and make real efforts at guiding their children in the right direction. When those kids come to me, I do not break their confidentiality, but I try really hard to get them to allow their parents to be involved. If they will not involve their parents, I still take care of them, and I protect their confidentiality....even when I don't think it's the right thing to do. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Wonder what she's on tonight. I'm not on anything, Rick. Didn't you know that I already quit the hard drugs??? Just trying to protect your cute little ass from the boys.... -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

In this case the law is irrealvant (for the case of this discussion) because what is right is right. YOU should not have the power to deal with my under age children as you see fit when is comes to sex or birth control. The law is very relevant when it's YOU deciding to abide by it or break it. It's easy for you to say that it's irrelevant when I'm the one at whom the law is directed. The law concerning my practice of medicine is very relevant. You haven't answered my question about how you view people who break the law....even when it's a law they disagree with. Is it okay to break laws that you disagree with on a fundamental level? Should people who break laws that they disagree with be punished??? -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

FUCK what the law says. Try it here and I will sue your ass If it concerns STD's, pregnancy, sexual issues, then you'd lose. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

IT IS NOT YOUR CALL Your liberal 'I know what is best' bull shit is showing. The law is FUCKED UP.. If you can see that then you are part of the problem. It's funny. I think I've been called "neo-con" at least as often as I've been called "liberal." In reality I'm neither. Truth is, as far as this particular topic goes, there are times that I'm thankful to be protected by the law and am able to give kids whose parents couldn't care less some information. There are other times that I try my best to get parents involved without breaking confidentiality. Regardless of my position, though, I'll not set myself up for being sued over this issue. You're right. It is NOT my call. In this instance, my job is all spelled out for me. It's really much simpler than many ethical issues that come up every week. The law tells me pretty precisely what I can and cannot say to parents in regards to their children's healthcare. You can yell and scream at me all you want. Call me whatever makes you feel better. You'll probably be wrong, though. You didn't answer my question about whether you value people following the law, whether it was a law the person agreed with or not. Do you? Do you value people breaking the law when they think the law is wrong? It's a real question. I'm wondering what your answer is. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail