flyingferret

This is also a very complicated issue, precipitated by global market decisions that many of us fought. http://www.corpwatch.org/issues/PID.jsp?articleid=1528#market Those same decisions that are making the Mexican economy worse are making our economy worse. However, that does not really effect the original idea of this thread which asked about the care provided based on an ethical/moral standpoint. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

If that is the case, I would have no problem with them not being eligible for the same treatment, ie transplants, as Mexican citizens. Skydekker: I was half teasing. But after all you are on an electronic forum. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Very cool. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/02/27/wtc.architect/index.html -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

I feel your pain....many of those same concerns apply to financial aid for education. If you are a foreign national it is very easy to get education assistance. For myself, the government apparently felt my family had a lot of money they should be spending on me. I am not saying foreign exchange students are not deserving of assistance. But perhaps our own children should get more then they are currently. Unfortunately, factors like that almost always play a factor to publicity value. I keep saying it boils down to the time when responsibility for individual actions started diminishing. Now you cannot tell someone they did not get the same as everyone else because the made bad decisions, or did not study, etc. etc. That would hurt their feelings, that would mean you are biased against them. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

So who are the illegal aliens? -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Wouldn't that make you a private volunteer in a foreign country? How would they be an illegal alien if you were in Mexico? Further more, this medically speaking a totally different situation then emergency medical attention at the scene of an accident. Time permitted the luxury of evaluation. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

I have relatives in Germany, and I REALLY doubt it. Germany is absolutely overrun with immigrants since the reunification, but to mention trying to bring East Germany out of the stone age. Based on what my relatives say, most people are pretty beligerant about social aid already. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Like David said, it happens all the time. SAD FACT here, brace yourself: People die everyday all around the world from be poor muther-f#ckers. We only compassionately pine about the ones that register face recognition with us. We cannot save every impoverished child (unless there is a huge rework in social thinking, and in my opinion a relegious resurrgence, but that is another thread). As for the the USA today thing, just like freefliers and cameras: no link, it did not happen. My very first post here asked for links. If you have some evidence, share it, information wants to be free. If your information is correct, I hope she decides not to sue (once again I preface that by saying I do not know who was at fault in the mismatch) -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

I agree. I think that their is intelliegence in the higher echelons that we have no idea of. Perhaps, we should not always distrust the players in the big poker game if we cannot see the cards. Not saying I blindly trust governernment. But I think history will show that sometimes things are kept within military intelligence for good reasons...including the freaking dumbass press filming everything, airing it internationally and then interviewing a dictator. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Push: I think that fact that she was ILLEGAL...I-L-L-E-G-A-L. (there is very little room for interpretation in that word) makes it a bitter harder to ask for justice. Because by the very premise of being in the Los Estados Unidos she was conciously and willfully skirting justice. I doubt the doctor conciously or willful skirted justice. CornishChris: Very well said! I have immense respect for the medical community. I cannot imagine working in a job, where every task I did has the risk of injuring/killing someone. Talk about stress. Why? because i readily admit, my job does not require that type of concentration, I mess up pretty frequently. I think we are f-ing ourselves collectively. We have gone around suing everywhere there might be a possible cause, without asking ourselves if we would risk doing it better. Litigation is the enemy of a capitalistic market. Well supply and demand are kicking in.....people are avoiding the professions with the higher risk and lower returns. Someday we will look around and whine about where everyone went. Well, you stupid collective conciousness, there is not 'they' who makes decisions! There is a group of individuals making decisions and not taking responsibility for them. jraf That is flawed logic and absolutely absurd. The same analogy would apply to a saint, a rapist, a murder, a nun, and a pedophile. As others have said, this situation as multiple issues. 1. Who was chosen 2. Why was the error made 3. Sould the mother sue as a result I have the most issue with 1, although I am not very informed with how the process of decision works, so if anyone has links, feel free to post. Number 2 I have not heard any evidence on. Number 3 depends largely on 2 in my opinion, however I am leaning heavily towards no, simply because I don't believe you should make a joke about a Frenchman who just gave you his frog. (Sorry pun intended, but you get the point). If someone showed compassion and attempted to help, and you accepted their help, knowing they are fallible, should you sue them for a mistake? Have you ever seen those sitcoms episodes, like Frasier, where a character has an operation and all the family members quiz the doctor based on reading things on an internet site? Laughable isn't it? How can you look at a doctor before hand and judge his ability? Could the mother or anyone else have really done any better or picked anyone that would have been predicted to do better? -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

On a lighter note....since this thread was supposed to be about the French. Don't blame us....the British invented the French joke. I just watched the Holy Grail yet again last and I was laughing my ass off. Monty Python and his flying circus was making fun of French and their insults 30 years ago. King Arthur: [W]hat are you then? French Soldier: I'm French. Why do think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king. Sir Galahad: What are you doing in England? French Soldier: Mind your own business. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Yes, actually it is. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,79763,00.html And it is an associated press story, so it matters not that it came from Fox. The ball is in their court. If the really want to disarm, they will begin destroying missiles by Saturday. Personally, I would say signs http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/02/27/sprj.irq.main/index.html indicate that may not be the case. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Never mind....it is now obvious. Simple patterns. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Great! got a link to it? I would search, but the topic coul dbe anything. And I am curious, sure it is simple. But I want to know. Right, I am just clicking on it like a mad banshee, and all the cubes around me are going 'bring, bring, bring," -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Something like this? http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/v3.htm They had a lot of projects similar. Really interesting program about them on the Hilter channel. I think it was Modern Marvels, or Big Machines or something. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Agreed. The fallacy that we owe something to everyone on Earth has been a bane of the United States since the social revolution in the 60s. No everyone can win. Sad to say, but someone will make the choice. Not you or I maybe, but someone will. It is so politically incorrect to make a decision today with qualifying it 10 different ways first. "i dont want to sound racist/sexist/conservative/liberal/etc/etc, but....." How many opinions doe we preface with that statement? We are afraid to make decisions...but life cannot exist without them. The lack of decisions and taking responsibility for them is the root cause for our economy, war on terrorism, etc, etc. Yes it is a complicated issue, I know. So dont have a knee-jerk reaction to this post. But as it applies to this thread: life involves choices. Maybe not easy ones, but looking away and spreading good vibes will not make them go away. The mother and daughter were illegal They were given a great gift of compassion The gift was even greater because the legality of residence was overlooked The mother is now more upset that our medical system made a mistake, and not grateful for the fact that if gave her a chance. Typical story with the US, we feel responsible and compassionate. So we attempt to help. Then people scream at us, sue us, burn our flag, throw rocks, and blow up crap, because we did not have the divine insight to foresee the perfect path. Fine, then lets learn, and choose carefully where our help goes. The legal system has made it so we have no other choice. To further the analogy above, I would save my son. But for another reason than you might think. Did you know the Red Cross advises you VERY strongly to get witnessed consent from an accident victim before administering first aid? Why? because of good samaritan lawsuits. Furthermore, did you know that if you begin to administer first aid, you are legally liable if you do not continue until the paramedics arrive? For those reasons, the ungrateful supported by the judicial system has left me no other choice than to make choices about who will live. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Okay, I can see this thread blowing up. Several things: cgross, for the most part I agree with you. Lets clarify a few things: a)post the links for your sources, particularly the ones about the mother reacting spitefully. That will avoid 50 posts debating intentions b)I think what cgross is most upset with, it not whether or not she sues, but rather that the decision was made to grant her a transplant for free while our citizens die! Now, let me share my thoughts. Illegal immigrants are ILLEGAL, it is sort of inherent in the definition. That does not mean their life is worth anyless. I fully agree that human life cannot bear a price. However you cannot apply that unilaterally to everyone, there are just not enough resources. Sadly, someone has to choose. It IS that simple, you cannot save everyone. I do not think that girl who died was anyless valuable than anyone else. However it appears that Lauren Averitt should get the same consideration. I feel personally that my tax dollars should go to help citizens of this country first! Then obviously if there are leftovers, help the world. But you see the obvious flaw there....we dont have enough money to help our own. I think the girl who died was given a supreme gift, a gift which many people never get! Think about this! Many people never get the transplant, and the die! Their soul leaves this planet. Hindsight is 20/20, the girl may have rejected the organs anyway. She was not guarenteed to live! However, she was given a gift, and the doctors tried. I don't believe for a minute they did not. Like someone pointed out, I think we should wait and see if the blame lies on the doctors, they dont pick the organs. If you were in freefall, and due to some magical already dead fellow jumper you had the chance to deploy his 50 year old Navy round reserve, condition unknown, would you take it? Yeah, you would, because you are seconds away from death. If it did not work, would you want your wife to sue the 'buddy' that let you try it? I think the whole situation is despicable, no matter what side of the fence you are on. But...and here is the really said part, so please even if you vehemently disagree with me, read the below: I went to the donations.org site because I do feel compassion for Lauren Averitt. I had some money for tithes and offering (which if you are not familiar is the relegious solution for caring for your community, you give back 10% of what God has blessed you with). Anyway, I had not given some of it and I felt this was an excellent cause. I went to the site to choose her name, was awestruck when teh dropdown menu appeared. There are tons of people on that list. Stop and think about it, it hit me like a ton of bricks. These are all people waiting for death. Why had I choosen Lauren? Simply because the publicity allowed me to know her name. But I cannot help them all. I cannot judge any of them. So, I must do my duty, and try to help, and know that if everyone tries we might cover it. Either way God see the heart of the giver and knows we cannot help everyone. That is why I feel we cannot be held accountable for charity. The question is what will we choose to give? What is it worth? I know we, as a community, have raised more than than Lauren needs to keep a fellow jumper in her home. Where any of her financial problems due to bad choices? Is there something that we could find fault with in Lauren? Probably yes to both. But does either matter???? Or will me choose to give to better someone's life? Or is owning a parachute a qualification? -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Lisa, well said. Just like people that do not like their children watching violent programs...change the channel! This a cyber DZ. And if anyone thinks that politics or religion does not get talked about at a DZ, that is naive! Would people prefer a "Rants" forum? People will always rant, about driving, about human relationships, about the need to lose weight, whatever. Many of us have never complained about threads we thought were stupid, and now everyone is taking heat for French jokes. This forum emulates life, and you are seeing a crosssection of life. Do you guys all really whine this much at the watercooler at work? Because where I work people would say something about the first amendment, laugh, and walk off. We are never going to collectively like everyone. Pretending that we would is part of what got us in the global political situation we are now in. Furthermore, we all know that skydiving transcends boundaries. Use a little intelligence and realize that when someone makes a joke about a nationality, it may not apply to 'jumpers' of that nationality. After all, we are a special breed. If you want to eliminate all the national jokes, what is next? Eliminate Aggie, Quade, Justin and I popping opposing gun control jokes? How about all the definitely sexist jokes that get made? How about all the jokes about George W? How about all the jokes cracked at RW vs. Belly? How about all the jokes cracked at Texans? Jokes about the dropzone record being in Cali or Texas? It is an open forum...that means (to my knowledge) that unless the mods deam it as a personal attack or totally objectionable it will stand. Dont like the title? Dont read it. Think it is a troll? Dont answer it. Disagree? Use the forums and debate it. But please dont whine.... -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

What version of the AIW Radeon? I have trouble with the several most recent driver editions do not work 100% with the older original Radeons. That may be an issue. May not. Also, the mx500 and mx700 drivers have been known to cause issues with Win2k, but not WinXP, that I have heard. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

I love how all the french jokes are getting publicity now. But you know....we have always made fun of the french. I was rewatching the avi of Robin Williams live in New York yesterday (and laughing my arse off). He has a good 5 minutes of French stuff thrown in, all of which pertained so much it could have been written yesterday, but it is 6-12 months old. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

who? sorry never heard of her. that might say something. on the other hand johnny cash has american IV out, and it rocks. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Reality TV shows deserve the same response as a troll....none. I think they are generally dumbing down America. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Watching lower quality vid...and reconsidering my career choice. WOW. Taliban Bodies on the same site is pretty good too. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

For anyone dowloading the high quality mpgs, do you know the codec? My dowloaded hit 350Kb, but I cannot open the files. Thanks, if not I will reasearch it at home later. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.