feuergnom

again: emergency sequence/procedures and how the jumper in question managed them is not the fucking theme of this fuckin thread note to self: why did i expect that this would be a thread without noise? The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666

if you don't mind sending your parachute to austria you can send it to the rigging-loft of our dz hope this helps

i could bet the lines were on the bottom of the container. why? well first the jumper is experienced and a rigger. and – afaik – he knows for shure that placing excess lines close to the reserve container can put heavy stress on stitchings and the rest of the container during deployment... well at least thats what we teach our students on our small dz... well basically they said they did - but didn't want to share any "evidence" (for whatever reason). thanks to all posters STAYING ON TOPIC

just tried it with my javelin - lines wouldn't stay there, they came off instantly no matter what i tried - well i didn't want to use a tacker or superglue thanks to all posters for your input so far. one polite request though: please could we keep the discussion wether he pulled stable or searched for handles and stuff like that out of this thread? BIG thanks! The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666

thx for chiming in & making my post more precise! The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666

hi derek - first off thanks for your thourough reading, i hope i can answer your questions (and i do hope the others from stammtisch will join this thread too). i am sure you also looked at these pics Bilder der Polizei Mühldorf - they were taken on site, right after the jumper hit the ground and the rig was taken off by medics with the aid of the dz's rigger so everything was still in place. essential pieces from the protocoll of the investigation (german) Zum Vergleich wurden Videoaufnahmen von unterschiedlichen Hauptfallschirmöffnungen analysiert. Für eine sichere Fallschirmöffnung sind unter anderen drei Faktoren von entscheidender Bedeutung: 1. Horizontale Lage beim aktivieren des Hauptfallschirms 2. Freie Leinenlänge im Containerboden 3. Verwendete Packgummis translation: for reasons of comparison videos of different openings have been analysed. for a secure opening of the main parachute three factors are essential 1 horizontal position during deployment (that means pull stable) 2 lenght of free (unstowed) lines on the bottom of the container 3 type of used stowing bands/rubbers further down in the protocoll it is stated "that the stowing bands were to large, so some lines came off early, thus getting caught under the # 2 flap." another interesting part of the text (for all of us who think it would be easy to change something about the construction of the stiffener in the flap): Überdies kann eine konstruktive Änderung am Container das Problem des Verfangens von Leinen an unterschiedlichsten Stellen nicht verhindern. Da die Ausführung der Verpackungen bei allen Herstellern annähern gleich ist, kann sich gleiches Szenario auch bei anderen Fallschirmen ereignen. translates as:a change in the construction of the container (read: flap) won't solve the problem of lines getting caught in different places. due to the fact that the design of any brand/type of container is more or less similar the same kind of scenario can happen with other containers so you asked if these rigs are still jumped with: yes. they were grounded in austria for two weeks which caused an uproar in germany (sloppy austrians making a move without any investigation of their own ) and for the changes in the packin manual: afaik it hasn't been issued yet, but the maximum of free unstowed lines mustn't exceed 30 centimeters (approx 1 foot) so basically (and to complete the story): no, there aren't any flaws in the design and the only one to blame is the jumper in question. so i hope that was the info all of you needed (i couldn't it put in my first post, it was simply too late yesterday) if you get three identical mals from three different people over a short period of time - well come to your own conclusions. so once more - any input from riggers is highly appreciated to the rest of the bunch (sorry for not answering individually) • yes. all three jumpers survived, afaik all are walking • for making a "simple" change of the # 2 flap: after seeing how much knowledge is put in a three-ring-system i doubt any alteration of the design of a rig can be easy (but maybe you can't compare a flap with something as complex as a 3ring - remember i am not a rigger) edit for worst typos The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666

This is a tricky one and i hope to get some answers/feedback from riggers. The question I (and a lot of jumpers from Germany and Austria have) are not intended to slam a manufacturer or put a bad light on him, we are just trying to find answers Although I'm quite fluent, English is not my first language - so don't slam me if someting is not as clearly formulated as it could be - ok? To the mods: Feel free to move this to another forum if it is not appropriate here, I just thought it was the best place to discuss this issue. Over at the stammtisch we have a heated dicsussion about this malfunction. Sorry it's German, but the pics and the video speak for themselves. This incident happened last August. i know a lot of you will want to know what kind of gear was involved: main: Demon (size approx 110) reserve: Quick, gear: Omega manufacturer: performance variable = PV (German manuf.) jumper: 1500, Instructor, Rigger Rough translation of what happened (still - pics say way more than my words): After pulling one of the outer lines got cought under the center flap which caused the main to spin rapidly. Cut away - but as you can see the reserve got tangled.... This has happened twice before to other jumpers, all of them survived with injuries. the manufacturer of the gear was contacted after the first and second incident and stated that this kind of mal would be impossible. Well after this one they had proof it could and did happen (pic and vid). Here you can see where the line got caught under the flap and the damage it did to the rig (might be of interest for riggers): To make the long story short: Officials met with the manufacturer - the outcome was questionable. PV didn't issue a security bulletin , "because it was late in the season", not much jumping during winter, not many rigs of that build around. They needed time for a solution - hence no grounding of the rig. The Austrian riggers assoc. thought different and issued a safety bulletin - the discussion became a heated one. Next step: PV stated that this incident happened due to sloppy packing and an instable pull and issued a new packing instruction for the rig and the canopy (Note: the owner is instructor, has 1.500 jumps and was team packer etc.). Plus they stated that this could happen to any other rig in the market. so - finally - my questions: • Can this kind of mal happen on any other rig? • Has it happened in the past? • If it has happened - what kind of rig? • What was the reaction of the manufacturer? service bulletins/recall/improvements? What i find questionable was how this whole story was handled Again - i am not trying to slam PV. We and the others at stammtisch are trying to find some answers ñ even if they are unpleasant for us. This post was made by feuergnom & BenediktDE edit: stupid me - it should say: could this happen with any other rig (its damn late and i have to get some sleep) last edit: fixed thread title -------› off to bed Edited by slotperfect to fix the clicky link. The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666

kraftwerk rocks! i could bet you have some records of tangerine dream

jeeeeezuz - after reading just a few posts it seems that the majority is into easylistening-comercialoriented "techno" that runs in the charts if you want to dig into the deeeeeep shit - watch out for the detroit techno legends like carl cox, jeff mills, juan atkins and the likes. look out for +8-records. if you like to search the net (but i bet you will have a hard time finding stuff to download) watch out for tracks from the austrain label "cheap records" - some fine stuff to find there. easier to get: berlins # 1 techno label tresor records. thats the real stuff not fakes like oakenfold, fatboy slim btw: "real" techno has no voices or lyrics - that's for house-music. it's all about the rythm baby The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666

for german dzs - come and ask at stammtisch, the german guys know more than me and will definitely help you out as for prices: fuel isn't as cheap as in the u.s., therefore tickets are more expensive than in the states. going to 4.000 meters is the norm. rig maintenance: pack-cycle is 180 days for reserve, as a u.s. citizen you can jump with your uspa license. have fun! edit for stupid typos The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666

i mentioned this and i still believe - if your morals are firm, and you feel that this order is way beyond your set "system of beliefs", you will oppose these orders, no matter what the consequences will be and what is he - or to make this more "unpersonal" what would any other soldier - face after this? he's going to jail - so no paychecks, no income.... as stated before - they were dumb enough to take vids & photos and get caught The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666

there have alway ben examples of soldiers disobeying their orders if they thought they had nothing to do with their job/duty or went strictly against their set of moral beliefs - even in the situation of war. for example german soldiers in ww2 refusing to shoot civilians in the ethnic cleanings. in that situation it sure meant death for the or the way to the next concentration camp (which was the same). graner - if he really was ordered to torture - could have made his stand. i have no idea of how the u.s. army works - but my guess is the consequences coudn't have been that severe, than the ones he is facing now. my guess is - that he's just another fuckhead trying to save his poor ass The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666

major bullshit! if he was ordered and didn't want to do the things he did, he could have listened to his "inner voice" or what ever you like to cal it and refused to fulfill his orders The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666

guess what kind of doorknocker i have The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666

saw it and thought "what a dimwit" The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666

sometimes you newver know The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666

…and other door-to-door missionaries maybe nsfw? if offended easily - don't open! The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666

just for the record: the name of the austrian jumper was hans resak he was - for various reasons - well known around vienna thanks for the transcript-link The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666

guess i like that one BWAHAHAHAHAHA! The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666

do you have any link to the story? The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666

couldn't hear the stream but this has to be the incident with some jumpers from austria involved if it is this one - they didn't care to take oxygen with them, got hypoxia and went straight in The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666

tricky one, maybe not exactely what you are looking for, but i'll give it a try anyway somewhere along the line started right after getting my license - when i met my mentors that became my best frieds. they are both ti's, aff-i's, riggers and they are running a skydiving school. so over the last two years i've been hanging out with them a lot. no wonder i got to hear loads of stories, and participating in such a small dz as ours i also saw some scary things they encouraged me to get my coach rating. coaching my first students was a big eye opener for me, especially after one of them had a brain fart that could have gone terribly wrong (spiraled into the ground for no reason at all and he couldn't tell anybody why he did what he did. incredibly enough he didn't hurt himself...*stillshuddering*) some weeks later - the student had just passed his license test - he watched as we gave each other pin-checks on jump run. that moment he realised that this was something everybody does and it's not only reserved for students

remember the days when there was no profile to be filled? (sure you do, you are a greenie). i remember the discussion about creating profiles and what should be put in there pretty good. there was much discussion about how to verify identities in here i'm still wondering why nobody requested fingerprints.... what does a name or a license # say? i know that you can look up a uspa license but what if i'm not a uspa member? i bet the same people would argue that "i'm not real" 'cause they couldn't look me up so true, so sad... The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666

N/A

found here in incidents i know it is a locked thread where everything got pretty heated pretty quick. but still - this attitude can be found in more threads than this one. i have no problem if there should be doubt on the quality of a post when advice is given. but when questions are asked? The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666