br0k3n

I just coudn't be bothered repeating myself It is well worth watching, unless of course your one of the close minded, blinded by faith, your all going to hell for not believing type of person.. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

And so he should be.... Paj you have to open your eyes soon, and not waste your spark of existance blinded by your unfounded, unprovable beliefs. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Interesting point here, and can be clearly seen in the way that religious types label and segregate their children. Children are not labelled by what political party their parents follow, and we don’t send them to schools based on this. For example we don’t say be a good labour child and send them to a labour school, as it is generally excepted that children are to young to understand politics. Yet it is quite normal to label children with their parent’s beliefs and separate them from other children whose parents have a different belief structure, by sending them to Christian, Islamic or Hindu schools. Why is this????? ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Well seeing as you asked.... The fundamental problem I have with religion is that there is absolutely no need for it in the modern world. Now you might argue that its harmless and that it helps teach people to be nice to one another, and it gives people hope. But Religion is not only an insult to our dignity but fights to reverse centuries of human progress. Religion teaches us that AIDS is ‘the wages of sin’, that homosexuality is sin and needs to be purged for us. It prevents the advance in stem cell research. It’s a common complaint that atheism is bereft of a moral compass, but this idea can be disabused with a pretty cursory reading of the ethics and moral philosophy literature. Not only does morality not need God, it seems difficult to show how God could even be the basis for morality . We, well most of us, are a highly intelligent race, we have evolved over millions of years from living in caves and hunting with sticks, to putting people on the moon, and developing cures for all sorts of illnesses. Our knowledge of the world and universe through science is enormous and ever growing. Science is about the setting up of hypothesis, the testing of models, and the collection of evidence, all of which could mean that we have to revise our thoughts. There’s no template to which all new facts have to be crowbarred into, like in the religious worldview. It’s an open-ended, relentlessly self-critical enterprise – if you won’t subject your pet theory to close scrutiny, you can bet the guy down the corridor will. Authority counts for little in science. Religion teaches faith, teaches us that its ok not to ask questions, not to seek the truth, because if we do, it will only be a matter of time before science takes on all the responsibilities that once belonged to the gods. As of today we still are unable to find a shred of proof that the stories of any of the world’s religions are indeed fact, why is that??? Why has no one found the Holy Grail, the Ark of the Covenant, Noah’s ark, or any other religious relic?? If we look at the Christian bible it is riddled with contradictions, inconstancies, errors, and historical inaccuracies. There are about four billion people who are not Christians they look at the Christian story in exactly the same way that you look at the Santa story, the Mormon story and the Muslim story. In other words, there are four billion people who stand outside of the Christian bubble, and they can see reality clearly. The fact is, the Christian story is completely imaginary. A couple of facts 1. The miracles are supposed to "prove" that Jesus is God, but, predictably, these miracles left behind no tangible evidence for us to examine and scientifically verify today 2. Jesus is resurrected, but, predictably, he does not appear to anyone today 3. Jesus ascended into heaven and answers our prayers, but, predictably, when we pray to him nothing happens. We can statistically analyse prayer and find that prayers are never answered Bertrand Russell points out that there could be a teapot orbit the sun, yet we wouldn’t know because we couldn’t detect it, because it was too small. Our science couldn’t prove that the teapot didn’t exist, but that would scarcely provide for asserting that it did exist – you can’t prove a negative. Logically, this might mean we should only commit ourselves to agnosticism, but in the case of the teapot, would you really say, “Well gee, I’m just not sure if it’s there” – in practice you’d be an atheist towards the teapot, wouldn’t you, unless there was good evidence to suggest it existed? So instead of calling ourselves agnostic, we might call ourselves teapot atheists. In any case, what is supposed to follow from the fact that we can’t disprove God’s existence? Do religious folk believe in anything whose existence can’t be disproved – pixies, goblins, unicorns, and mermaids? Of course not, nearly everyone on the planet is a teapot atheist with respect to most of the Gods that have ever been invented, from Thor to Aphrodite, and every member of a monotheistic religion is an atheist to every conception of God bar one. “Some of us,” “just go one God further.” ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

In your opinion, yet as always you have no proof to back up your opinion. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

I just asked a simple question? whats the problem??? Ok heres a different question, "why wont god heal amputees"???? ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

No, this isn't the God I worship. Which god is it then???? ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

blah blah blah.. no YOU believe they did, because your literature says so and believe your entire existence is tied up into going to 'heaven' your eternal reward for 'good behavior'.. basic carrot/stick. nothing new.... however it doesnt make it any more true than claims of any other text by any other author or any other Religion we have a winner ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

is this, or is this not your god.... "Hello, my name is Jesus. I love you deeply. I have loved you since you were conceived in the womb and I will love you for all eternity. I died for you on the cross because I love you so much. I long to have a loving personal relationship with you. I will answer all of your prayers through my love. But if you do not get down on your knees and worship me, and if you do not EAT MY BODY and DRINK MY BLOOD, then I WILL INCINERATE YOU WITH UNIMAGINABLY TORTUOUS PAIN IN THE FIRES OF HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY BWAH HA HA HA HA HA!" ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

No I have not, I asked a perfectly legitimate question, however instead of looking at the evidence and questioning it, in your mind, you are coming up with a thousand rationalizations to explain why Jesus did not perform any real miracles. This is part of what being a Christian is, its being able to be an expert at rationalization, you have to be because god constantly lets us down. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

that doesn't answer the question...... anyway on the subject of miracles… Why didn't Jesus perform any real miracles. He could have, for example, eliminated smallpox and a host of other diseases that science is busy eliminating today. He could have made his message so clear, and the proof of his godliness so obvious, that all six billion people on the planet would have aligned with him rather than fragmenting into dozens of bizarre and often warring factions. To any rational person, these problems make it painfully obvious that Jesus was a normal human being. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Any joy with finding that evidence??? Also did you get in touch with the almighty one as nobody has appeared before me yet, is god busy? John 14:12 is quite clear: "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it. You have asked for something in his name. You have even asked him to do something that he is clearly able to do. The Bible says that Jesus appeared to hundreds of people, so it should be no problem for him to appear to you or me. I'll await you response.... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Hey MC, here’s an idea that should help us clear this up once and for all, as you and Paj seem to be in touch with almighty one, perhaps you could get him to appear before me, I’ll get my photo taken with him and that should be it… Just a thought, just putting the idea out there…. What do you think???? ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Well done, exactly… because if you had evidence then there would be no need for faith…… Believe me my mind can be changed. If an angel flew down and shook my hand, if someone dug up the Holy Grail, my mind would be changed… MC all the evidence so far that I have seen, is endless quoting of passages from the bible, this is not evidence, how can it be… where is the physical evidence, do you have it?????? So one more time, please show me this evidence that you speak of.. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Yes, I can show that my belief in God doesn't require "blind faith." There is good reason for me to believe what the biblical authors have written about God. There's good reason (evidence) to find the New Testament text adequately, if not perfectly, reliable. And there's good reason to believe in its historical accuracy. But I would hardly know where to begin; there is so much... which is why I certainly wouldn't mind emailing you the Word document. Reason even "good reason" is most certainly not evidence.... To date there is not a shred of evidence that can authenticate the bible depiction of God and the stories of a chap called Jesus, no one has found Noahs ark, the Holy Grail, the Ark of the Covenant, etc etc etc. Another case in point is the biblical record of the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt and their subsequent 40-year wandering in the Sinai wilderness. Up to 3 million Israelites camped in a wilderness for 40 years, but no traces of their camps, burials, and millions of animal sacrifices could be found in ten years of excavations. There simply is no evidence what so ever to support you belief in your god…… No matter what you believe, you are unable to prove that belief in your god does not require blind faith, you simply can’t.. that’s fact….. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

can you explain what you mean, this statement doesnt make sense??? Can you, or can you not show that belief in your God does not require "blind faith"? ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Yes it is How can it be anything but blind faith ???????? Blind faith is to believe in something when there is a complete and total lack of supporting evidence. If there was evidence then there would be no need for faith as the evidence would compel us to believe. So YOUR beliefs are based on "blind" faith..... If you don't agree, then its simple, prove otherwise... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

*YAWN* "Man will believe all sorts of crap with out questioning it, so longs as it makes them feel better" - Br0k3n ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

where you born a christian? No you weren't, when you were born, you like every other person on this planet was born an athiest...... Babies do not believe in God. Your religion often depends on your upbringing, I suspect that if your parents had been mulslims, then you would not be on this forum today preaching about the christian god and the bible, but about the Koran and Allah. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

ermmm right so you consider the belief in chritianity does not require "blind faith"!!!!! how exactly did you come to that conclusion??? You believe in a god based on NO evidence what so ever, all you have a is book, that cannot be proven to be fact, and for which there is NO supoorting evidence for at all. Therefore you have blind faith, and by your own definition blind faith is worthless, therefore your faith is worthless. Or did I miss something???? ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

With currently popularity of religious threads I thought I might pose the question:- Why are we not all believers? I mean what person would not want there to be a glorious afterlife, because as I see it that is really the root of or ultimate reward for most religions. If Christianity came with no afterlife promise I imagine there would be very few Christians around today, and there would be another dominant religion that does promise a glorious afterlife. If we look around at the moment and the current rise in the popularity with the “paranormal” this can only but enforce the human desperation to try and prove there is something else out there, as the knowledge that when we die that is it for eternity, is just to much for some people to live there lives knowing.. Don’t get me wrong I as much as the most religious of people on this forum would dearly like to live on after my earthly body as expired, but I just am unable to except something that as of to date has no supporting evidence and tells me that it will all be ok if I just have a little faith. But why don’t I just have a little faith what have I got to lose, some would say nothing. However for some reason I can’t, it almost feels like there is no part of me, or my brain that needs or wants religion, in the same way a non-smoker doesn’t feel the need for a cigarette. Some would say this is the work of the devil, but will skip that hypothesis for now. Is it possible that it the need for a god is genetic? Dean Hamer, the director of the Gene Structure and Regulation Unit at the U.S. National Cancer Institute, has a theory of there being a gene that some human beings bear which gives them a predisposition to episodes interpreted by some as religious revelation. At the end of the day religion has no place in my life, and I have no need for it, but for many life with out religion would be unthinkable..... What makes me and other people like me different to the millions of believers? So if you believe, why, what is it about your particular god/religion that made you decide to embrace it? And if you Don’t believe, why don’t you believe.. Would it be possible also to have the discussion with anyone quoting endless passages of the bible, or any other religious doctrine??? Please .... Pretty please..... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

or Jam. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

The problem with religion is that it teaches us that its ok to believe something based on faith that we don’t need to ask questions that we don’t need evidence…. Faith is defined by the OED as “Confidence, reliance, belief, esp. without evidence or proof” and “Belief based on testimony or authority”. So it is to literally to take a claim as true, and assent belief in it, on the basis of no evidence As if this weren’t enough, religions also usually have proscriptions against questioning the authority of tradition, as the story of Doubting Thomas makes clear. Do you think if the Palestinian suicide bomber in Tel Aviv recently had not been brought up on faith alone, he would killed himself and 9 other because he believed though faith alone that his actions would be praised Allah and he would transcend to heaven where "Therein are bashful virgins whom neither man nor jinnee will have touched before ... virgins as fair as corals and rubies,". Windcather, please open your eyes, ask questions dont waste your life becuase you have faith that there is a life waiting for you after death, as you might get a nasty suprise... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

EDIT - just noticed i miss read your post, but my point still stands. Are you actually serious!!!! I don't believe the bible because there isnt a single shread of evidence to support it, (Paj the bible isnt evidence, so please refrain from boring us all by quoting endless scriptures) which is why you need faith, which is a form of non thought. I think Richard Dawkins summed it up quite nicely with his quote. “Religion is an insult to human dignity” ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

So why is there not a shinning cross in the sky??? why is it that your religion has is a book that is no more provable as fact then Harry Potter is a wizard... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+