br0k3n

Interestingly if you look at the Myth of Hercules, then you see that it is the same as the Santa and as the Jesus stories, however unlike Jesus, it is accepted as a myth. Examine the evidence for the Hercules of Greek mythology and you will find it parallels the "historicity" of Jesus to such an amazing degree that for Christian apologists to deny Hercules as a historical person belies and contradicts the very same methodology used for a historical Jesus, so why believe one myth and not the other? ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

MB Im not trying to be “evasive”, I’m trying to get you to see that there is no evidence to support the story of Jesus, and that based on this I am “extremely confident” that he did not exist. However for that sake of argument here are a few examples that I think at least put a lot of doubt on the subject, if not put it to bed for good so to say… 1. There is no physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. 2. There is no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus? 3. There is not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus 4. Comparative Religion shows that the story of Jesus already existed in numerous religions prior to the alleged time of Jesus. Chrishna, Horus, Orpheus, Bacchus, Osiris, Dionysus, Buddha, Apollo, Hercules, Adonis, Ormuzd, Mithras, Indra, Œdipus, Quetzalcoatle, etc. The motif of a Crucified Savior was already extant prior to the alleged time of Jesus. 5. Solar Mythology shows the story of Jesus is just an allegory for the sun passing through the Zodiac and the passage of the seasons of the year. Jesus travels throughout his one year ministry, and the description of his travels exactly match that of the sun traveling through the Zodiac during the year. Here we have the origin of the Jesus story. This common origin explains why all the stories of crucified saviors are essentially the same. 6. It's inconceivable that during the alleged time of Jesus no one bothered to write down anything about this most extraordinary person, yet we have nothing. Even the earliest Bible reference to Jesus dates to at least A.D. 64, and the first Gospel, the Gospel of Mark, dates to at least A.D. 70 (and probably to A.D. 170). 7. The fact that no history, sacred or profane,—that not one of the three hundred histories of that age,—makes the slightest allusion to Christ, or any of the miraculous incidents ingrafted into his life, certainly proves, with a cogency that no logic can overthrow, no sophistry can contradict, and no honest skepticism can resist, that there never was such a miraculously endowed being as his many orthodox disciples claim him to have been. Paj, Michele, MB anyone care to clear up these issues? ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

No misunderstanding let me write the list out again for you… Here is the list of all the empirical evidence that supports the story of Jesus, and believe me I examined it all very closely.. 1. Now here is the second list, this is what is called “hearsay or anecdotal” evidence that supports the story Jesus, 1.The Bible… ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

MB lets stop wasting time with this dead end conversation, I thought you were busy answering some of my questions??? First off, yes I would take your word that your grandfather exists or existed, that is because you are living proof? Unless you were grown in a test tube then it is logical to believe that as you exist then your grandfather exist or existed..... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

***Your name is also written on the back of the ticket and the ticket can only be used by you (or to pay for a coach/camera/etc). Or by someone else, if you scribble your name out and replace it with there's.... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Yes extremely unlikely…. Now to answer you question here is a list of all the empirical evidence that suggests that the stories told of a man called jesus might in fact be real… feel free to add anything to the list that I have missed. 1. Now here is a list of all everything else, which is considered as anecdotal evidence, 1. The Bible…. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Absolutely not, of course I believe J.S Bach, Charles Darwin, Napoleon, Julius Caesar, Winston Churchil etc etc etc anyone else???? Now as you correctly pointed out I have not seen, or met any of these people, but how is it that I believe that they existed, and what makes them different from Jesus????? Lets take caeser as an example, Unlike the mythical Jesus Christ, we know what Caesar looked like and we have a complete history of his life. We have words written by Caesar himself and words written by both his friends and his enemies. Artefacts confirm his life and death, as do his successors. Caesar was an eyewitness to many of the events he describes in his commentaries. He wrote not for posterity but to have an immediate impact on the power players in Rome as he schemed to advance his own career. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

I wish I was. But alas Im not.. however I have arrived at the conclusion that it is extremely unlikely that god exists, and like my previous post this is by examining all the empirical evidence and forming a logical conclusion based on it. However I will admit that I could be wrong. Not at all, however most of Michele’s questions did indeed require little thought. But please MB answer my questions how you see fit. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

What is this "believing something without proof" business? If you have proof of something, do you believe it? or do you know it? You're confusing "proof" with "evidence." "Proof is arriving at a logical conclusion, based on the available evidence." if you want to ensure the you arrive at the best possible conclusion then you ensure that the evidence that you consider is empirical. In the case of Christianity there is no evidence except the bible, which is most certainly not empirical evidence. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

I take it that you think you're omniscient in order to be so sure that God doesn't exist. Am I right? MB perhaps you can address a couple of my questions??? neither Paj or Michele seem upto the task? Then we can discuss this post... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

The questions I asked are not meant to be mocking, because you or anyone is unable to answer them truthfully, then you label them as mocking. Please can you indicate which question/s you consider mocking, I will endeavour to rephrase them. How am I acting “less then adult like”??? I asked a few genuine questions that I believe need to be answered.. So perhaps you can indicate which parts of my post are “less the adult like”?????? Why do you not defend your religion, why is it that time and time again that you run and hide under a rock, when difficult conversations or questions are raised that put your beliefs in doubt?? And you claim that I am closed-minded!!!!!! I am more then willing, and trying to have an intellectual conversation, but as soon as I ask a question or questions that are challenging for you to answer, and seriously put your faith in question, you call me “less then adult like” and decide to remove yourself from the conversation… So again I ask, please let me know which of my questions you don’t like…. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

br0k3n, you're as close-minded as anyone is on this forum! Far from it, thats why im an Atheist.... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Ok I've answered your questions, any chance or answering mine???? 1. Why is there so much suffering in the world? Shouldn't it all be peaches and cream? Answer There is so much suffering because we “humans” and the world isn’t perfect. 2. What is my reason for being alive? Why am I here? Answer Do you need a reason?? 3. What is your reason for being alive? Have you discovered it? How? Answer There is no reason, and I am happy with that, I am more concerned with enjoying and making the most of my brief spark of existence then worry about why I am here.. 4. How come I believe in God, see His work all around me, and yet still have doubts? Answer You believe because it has been ingrained in you from an early age. You see see things around you that you do not understand, so you simply attribute them to you God. 5. How come God would let people suffer in hell (or any religion's particular version of it)? Answer Because it is a myth, and with most myths there is good vs evil. 6. How can I be free and still obey God's laws? And how come the jews have so many laws??? Answer You can be free by not living you life by some ancient mystical belief system. 7. Doesn't science preclude any god, and if not, how not? Answer No, but everyday science is taking on responsibilities that once belong to gods. Science does not know and cannot prove everything, but it is advancing our population and our thinking, one day I believe that science will make gods redundant. 8. What is divine guidance? AnswerA myth 8a. What is coincidence rather than answered prayer? How do I know the difference? Can I test it? Answer Yes you can test it… simply pray to Jesus to appear before you, ? In Mark 11:24 Jesus' message is crystal clear: "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." He says, "Ask, and you shall receive." In Luke 1:37: "For with God nothing will be impossible." Nothing is impossible through prayer. 9. How does God work in my life? How does He know "each hair on my head", and why would He bother? Answer when Jesus appears before you, from the previous question you will be able to ask him 10. What are Angels, cherubim, and Seraphim? How come I can't see them? Answer Would have thought this would be obvious, but anyway “they don’t exist” that’s why you, and nobody can or ever has seen them.. 11. Why does God love me? Answer How do you know he does? 12. How can I love more? Love even those who've done me wrong; badly, badly wrong? Answer Good question, and one that you can achieve without the crutch of god. 13. Doesn't forgiveness mean it's o.k. to do it? And if I forgive someone, does that give them permission to do it again, and again? Answer This is down to your own morale standings.. 14. Why is Mary respected in the Catholic religion, but plays a lesser part in other religions? What about the feminine aspect to judeism and christianity? Answer BECAUSE THERE ALL FABLES… ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Dont make excuses for not having the answers Paj.... your religion does not stand up to scrutiny, FACT or perhaps I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, can you supply the answers to my questions... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

What questions have you been asking??? Because if you really have been asking questions then the only logical out come is to realize that religion is nothing more then an old myth… Maybe you can answer some of the questions I have, as I’m sure that you have already asked them and have the answers.. 1.Where is all the archeological proof, where is Noah’s Ark, the holy Grail, the ark of the covenant, or in fact any relic that proves that the Jesus existed or can be linked to the story.. 2.Why did Jesus have to die for our sins, why didn’t god just forgive us???? 3.Why is there no physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. 4. Why is there no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus? 5. In fact why is there not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus 6.Examine the evidence for the Hercules of Greek mythology and you will find it parallels the "historicity" of Jesus to such an amazing degree that for Christian apologists to deny Hercules as a historical person belies and contradicts the very same methodology used for a historical Jesus, so why believe one myth and not the other? 7.Julius Caesar has a mass of mutually supporting evidence, why doesn’t Jesus? 8.Why would a proposed magical super-being who expects everyone to believe in Him, conceal all evidence of His existence. 9.Why is there not a shinning cross in the sky? ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

It has everything to do with the “mainstream” religions, all religions survive through faith the belief in something without proof, and teach that this is ok. The members of the HG cult are just one end of the scale, the same end as the suicide bomber, whilst you are probably at the other end. But you are all on the same scale. Your missing the point, I’m not saying that religion suggest suicide, but that religion fuels false belief, it teaches its followers that faith in its particular teachings is ok and not to ask questions outside of this. Whether that is the bible, or that there is a spaceship waiting to collect your soul, and it is this fundamental close minded approach that leads to problems. There are 159 million Americans who identify themselves as Christian, and therefore you have 159 million people whose sacred book tells them that homosexuality is a sin. Christians are taught to oppose gay rights, and defeated several attempts by the Government to accomplish equal gay age of consent. Sure there is a problem, but where do most of these problems stem from? I agree tolerance is a big key to the success of society; however we have to be careful of what we are tolerant of. The point I was trying to make is that you seem to think you can simply say lets all be tolerant, however see previous comment. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

It might be a DNS issue. If it is, try, in order: Open a command prompt, type "ipconfig /renew" (without the quotes) and press enter. Restart your browser, and try again. Turn off your ADSL modem. Turn it on again. Wait 2min. Restart your browser, and try again. Go into your ADSL modem webpage, run the diagnostic test and tell us if and where it's failing. any easier way would be to goto the cmd prompt, type ping www.nameofsite.com. you will then get a response: server: www.nameofsite.com address: 111.222.3.4 the goto your browser and in the address bar type: http://111.222.3.4 if the site comes up, then you have a dns problem, if it doesnt you probably dont. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

I disagree. DNS wouldn't explain why Limewire doesn’t connect, this is usually caused by the ports that limewire uses being blocked, this could be done by your isp to try and prevent p2p'ing. Most isp's will only allow you to connect to their mail server is you have an IP address that is in their range.. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

The fact that 39 people committed mass suicide so that their souls could take a ride on a spaceship that they believed was hiding behind the Hale-Bopp comet, is sad. But your right Michele lets not label these peoples belief as stupid, If a loved one of yours was a member of the Heavens gate cult, would you have been tolerant, would you have said well its their belief who am I to suggest that they don’t kill themselves… You really cannot compare intolerance to religion in the same light as intolerance to homosexuality, or racism. What about intolerance to crack cocaine, or heroin is that a shame???? ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

damn you beat me to it ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

what are you on???? I mentioned religion, and you gone off on some rant about colour and gender???? dude, sit down, calm down and breath deeply.... in.........out........in........out ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Of course not that would be absurd??? Or course Again I think my answer is of course.. However if I was devout Christian, Muslim I would find in my sacred scriptures that both racism, and sexism are acceptable. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Consider the statement: "a persons religious beliefs should be respected". Why? If someone believed that Israel should be wiped off the map, I wouldn't be expected to respect or tollerate that. If someone believed that space aliens were reading their mind by brain rays from venus, I wouldn't be expected to respect that. What is so special about religion that we must respect it no matter how absurd it is? If someone thinks you'd have to be nuts to buy into particular belief, why can't they call it as they see it? Which reminds me of a quote: "We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart." -H. L. Mencken Religion should not be tolerated or respected, people need to be educated and then hopefully one day we no longer have these superstions. Im glad to see that the judge in the Paul Hill case didnt respect his bullshit beliefs when he sentanced him to death.. [sic]In a statement before his execution, Hill said that he felt no remorse for his actions, and that he expected "a great reward in Heaven." ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[sic]We steer experienced and aggressive pilots toward the 1.5 to 1.8 lbs/sf (many pilots are comfortable above 2.0lbs/sf). Intermediate and conservative pilots toward the 1.3 - 1.5 range. They have even been used by inexperienced jumpers at very low wing-loadings... So at the wingloading and experience justlovesit is at hes not really pushing any limits.... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

How?? ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+