br0k3n

[Reply]Are you admitting that there is a force of good and evil outside of mankind, or are you arguing for argument's sake? Nope, I’m simply stating that by “definition” the god of the bible is “evil” and the devil as depicted in the same novel is good. To answer your question, Abortion is probably not the “best” way to keep a child from suffering the hardships of everyday living. However I do believe that every woman has the right to choose to have an abortion. One reason is that a fetus does not have a right to be in the womb of any woman, but is there by her permission. Also because the fetus is not an actual human being—it is a potential human being. The same as potential that is afforded to all the little sperms that die or you could say are aborted every time you have sex, with another person or yourself.. Personally pedophilia isn’t for me, and my personal beliefs on the matter are that I think it is wrong to engage in any kind of sexual act with a minor. I’m sure there are many who would disagree with me. According to the dictionary “well rounded” means comprehensive - including all or everything ; so based on that one could possible argue that those with a different belief about pedophilia then me, would have a more rounded mind. As I am an atheists and don’t believe in any gods, your last point is moot. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

MB, what a complete load of dribble, have you actually read the bible at all??? the choice God gives us in the bible. Either love him, and choose him, or we will face the fires of hell…. Now Interestingly though, the "fires" of hell might not be all that bad. As I have been looking in this whole subject, It would seem to me that Christians have it all wrong, you shouldn’t be worshiping God, as God by definition is quite clearly evil. You should be bowing down before Satan, as it actually seems that the “Devil” is the good guy.. But No I hear you all cry, satan is evil…. But is he, lets take a look…. MB hope your taking notes…. Genesis 3: 4-5 “And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as Gods, knowing good and evil.” The key words here are, “…knowing good and evil.” According to this, Satan says we will know what good is and know what evil is. So it stands to reason from this that we can judge right from wrong, and can know when God does something good or bad. “But Satan is the prince of lies and evil”, I can hear you exclaiming. Ahh…well then let us look at the following passage. Genesis 3: 22 “And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever” Well, well, well. It appears here that what the devil said was true. God himself says that mankind can now judge right and wrong, knowing good and evil. It seems to me here that Satan was just trying to wake us up from the ignorance God had us in. Which begs the question: Why does god now punish mankind for committing a sin when we don’t know what good or evil is? Sure, he may have told us not to eat the apple, but how could we have understood the implications of this action, since we had no notion of good or evil? If we don’t know how to be good, then we wouldn’t recognize something as evil. Again, evil is defined as something “that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction”. Well according to the punishment God deals out in the following passages as the result of tasting the apple, that taste could definitely be defined as evil. Genesis 3: 16-19 “Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.” Well that certainly sounds like suffering to me, and this is just the tip of the iceberg of God’s cruelty to those who sin against him. So because Eve and Adam ate the fruit of the tree, without knowing the difference between right (good) and wrong (evil), Eve’s sorrow will be greatly multiplied, and have sorrowful conception, and serve her husband, and Adam has all of the ground cursed and it will be hard labor for him to grow food. So to return to our main point of whether or not we can judge God as good or evil, I think it is obvious that we can. All you have to do is read the scripture in which God himself says we know good and evil as he does, “…the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil…” Genesis 3: 22. As a human who knows good and evil, I judge the biblical god to be evil by definition. Well if God is evil, then what is Satan? Why did God cast Satan out, and what is his punishment? Satan was proud, and rose up against God (Isaiah 15: 13-14, Ezekiel 28: 14-19). Therefore, he is judged, bruised, chained in darkness, and sent to Hell (John 12: 31, John 16: 11, Romans 16:20, Jude 6, 2 Peter 2: 4, Matthew 25: 41). It’s interesting to note that Satan was an angel (Isaiah 14: 12) who was perfect (Ezekiel 29: 15) and beautiful (Ezekiel 28: 17). The angels had free will, as is indicated by the fact that Satan chose to go against God. If he had known the punishment, he would not have had true free will. However, it says nowhere that Satan knew he would be sent to hell for his actions. It is only after he rebels that he is punished. The angels were created before man, and as free moral agents, some revolted against God. Therefore, God made mankind, and made him ignorant of good and evil. We didn’t gain the ability to judge good or evil until after the fall, and then God punished us for doing what he knew we would do(he’s omniscient, remember?). It’s as if God knew that once we realized the difference between good and evil as the angel’s did, we would see him for what he truly is. Satan led a rebellion against God in Heaven and was cast out for it. Well, since we’ve established that God is evil by definition, wouldn’t fighting against God be considered an act of goodness? As a human who knows good and evil, I judge Satan, who fought to overthrow the evil biblical god, to be good. So there you have it, Paj, MB I think its time for to bow down before Satan...... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

The description of God [above] that Broken posted is a fairly accurate description of the God that Paj and MB believe in - it says so right at the top of his post. Paj and MB are some hard core fundamentalists, jakee, and br0k3n: SpeedRacer is right-- br0k3n's depiction of God is distorted, yet he challenges us to defend it. (And frankly, whoever started this thread gave a distorted view of Fundamentalism... but then it wasn't meant to be taken seriously, right? It was solely composed for the dz.com pagans' entertainment.) Jakee, who are you to tell anyone that the depiction of God above is an accurate description of the God I believe in? Apparently you haven't been following my part of the discussion very closely... Which is fine as long as you don't put words in my mouth. I will let Paj defend his own beliefs, but I sure don't recall his ever characterizing the God of scripture in that way. I really dislike how insidious y'alls tactics have become. It sure would be fun to have a fair debate some day. Go on MB, tell us all how my depiction is "distored" or how it is anything less then an accurate representation of your god????? Basically if I dont love your god, im off to hell.... where is the confusion, or should I say Distortion??? ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Job is perhaps one of the best examples of the biblical god’s evil. Here, he has a faithful servant, who had not sinned, feared God (who wouldn’t?), and avoided evil. Job had a number of sons and daughters, thousands of sheep, camels, oxen, asses, and also had a large home. He even went so far as to offer sacrifices to God after feasts, just in case one of his sons had ever sinned (Job 1: 1-5). It seems unlikely to me that you would find a man in the Old Testament who loved God more than Job. So what was his reward? Did God multiply Job’s household and give him everything a man of great faith would require? Did God make his seed the rulers of great kingdoms? No. Quite the opposite, in fact. There came a time when Satan and the “…sons of God…” came to before the Lord. God asks Satan where he has been (wait…isn’t God omniscient?), and Satan says he has been walking around the earth. God asks Satan if he has “…considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and upright man…” Satan says that he has met Job, and that he only loves God because he has so many great things and has been blessed so much. The Devil tells God that if God were to “…put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath…” that Job would curse God to his face (wait again…I thought no man has seen God face to face? John 1: 18, Exodus 33: 10, 1 John 4: 12). Basically, if God messes with Job’s stuff, Satan says, Job would hate God. The Lord already knows the answer (remember that whole omniscience thing), but for some reason decides he needs to basically destroy Job’s life through suffering, pain, ruin, and destruction in order to show Satan he is wrong. God knows Job would repent and come back to God after cursing him, but it’s not enough to know this. Instead, he has to prove Satan wrong, no matter what the cost. Sounds like pride to me when you can’t just be satisfied knowing you’re wrong, but have to be able to say, “Told you so!” Wasn’t pride the reason Satan became a fallen angel and was cast into Hell? Quick question here in case you have confusion as to who’s at fault here. Who’s responsible for a murder? A robot, or the scientist who created the robot and programmed it to kill? Remember, God made Satan and saw all the things he would do. In the first chapter of Job, God lets Satan go and mess up Job’s life a little bit, with the stipulation that he does not harm Job physically. First, every one of Job’s servants that watch his oxen, save for one, is slain. Secondly, great fire burns up all his thousands of sheep and the servants that watch them as well, save one. Next, his camels and servants that watch the camels are all slain, save for one. Ouch. Oh wait, to top it off a building collapses, killing all of his sons. This all happens on the first day that Satan is messing with Job, per God’s orders, remember. What does Job do? He shaves his head, and falls down and praises the Lord. (Job 1: 14-22) So the next time that Satan and the “…sons of God…” come to see the Lord, God again asks Satan where he has been (anyone else beginning to be confused about God’s omniscience?), and Satan says he has been traveling the world. God asks Satan about Job again, and Satan says (paraphrasing Job 2: 4-5), “Yeah, yeah. So you took what he had. A man will give everything he has for his life. If you torture him physically though, he’ll curse you.” God, again knowing what will happen, still tells Satan to go out and do what he will with Job, short of killing him. So Satan goes and infects Job with horrendous boils from the top of his head to the sole of his feet. At this point, even Job’s wife realizes how horrible God is being to Job, and says, “…curse God, and die.” (Job 2: 9). It’s understandable that she would be a little upset with Job, as his worship of this God has caused the death of her children. Job suffers for a long time, and his friends come to his house and the rest of the story is about Job suffering, and debating with his friends about God and his purposes. In the end, Job never curses God, and God gives the things back to Job twofold. So what is the moral of the story? That if you are faithful, God will double what you have. Oh, and if you’re faithful, God will destroy one of your homes, kill your children, kill your animals, kill your servants, and strike you with sores and boils from head to toe, so he can tell Satan, “Told you so!” MB your god is evil, you simply cannot deny it...... why do you continue to make excuses for him and worse continue to worship him ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Mockingbird you really just don’t seem capable of understanding some very basic concepts here. Whether or not you understand Calculus is irrelevant. I can prove to you that that calculus is real and works, an example in which calculus could be used would be finding the acceleration and velocity of a free-falling body at a particular moment. The difference here is, if I were to say to you the whole god, bible thing makes no sense to me, can you please show me some evidence of how it all works, you simple would be unable to. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

None at all. You've completely misrepresented it. OK this is my last post in this thread. I'm tired of the twisted, distorted, straw man argument about Christianity. What's the point of arguing to defend something that is a complete distortion of what you actually believe?? How is it misrepresented??? please clarify???? I thought it was extremely accurate representation of the christian god. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Paj and MB, please explain why your god is not evil, in your words not using endles quotes and scriptures from the bible.... Per definition, something that causes evil has to be evil itself. No good, moral person would purposefully cause evil acts to be committed. The God of the bible causes so many evil atrocities it is amazing to me that anyone could worship him. The most blatant example of this is hell. Imagine a father were to tell his son that by the time he is twelve, he must decide whether or not to love his dad. The father says the child is free to choose whatever he wants, but if he chooses to not love his father, then the father will put his son in the oven and cook him. What sort of freedom of choice is this? I don’t think it is any choice. Surely a man who did this would be considered one of the most insane, sick, twisted, and evil person you could meet. He would be thrown in prison for child abuse, neglect, and infanticide. Even the criminals in prison would look down on this child murderer, most likely taking out revenge in the child’s name. How ironic is it then that when God does this, we worship him, say “God is Love”, and build churches in his honor ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Bullshit, I've clearly shown that he is more then capable of evil, to the point that one might actually think that he is pure evil..... So you dont consider the massacre of over 2 million people whos deaths in the bible can be attributed directly to god, as evil!!!!!!!!!!! God’s anger is always righteous because he judges the heart. That sounds unreasonable to most because they are unaware of their sin and it’s exceedingly sinfulness towards a completely holy, just, infinite, and perfect God. All who are guilty of lying, stealing, committing adultery (looking with lust), blaspheming, hating (murder), committing idolatry, dishonoring parents, etc. will be judged. That includes every born again Christian. The only difference between the judgment in the Old Testament and now is that your judgment has been graciously delayed. You are guilty and will stand before the Judge. You are guilty because of willful disobedience of God’s moral law. If you go to hell, it will be because you sent yourself there. The punishment will be completely justified and you will have no excuse. Until you are born again (repent or turn away from your sin and trust in Jesus as your Savior becoming a new creature in Christ and make every effort to live according to His Word), you are not considered a child of God. In fact, the Bible makes it clear that you are a child of wrath who is storing up wrath for yourself on the Day of Judgment. All this argument over religion is ridiculous. We all better forget about all the formalities of religion, whether we think we can account for our own lawlessness, and whether we think we are good enough to put ourselves right with God. Forget about religion! Study your conscience! Do you not get tired of having to constantly make up excuses for your god? ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

God is incapable of doing evil. It isn't in his nature. Bullshit, I've clearly shown that he is more then capable of evil, to the point that one might actually think that he is pure evil..... So you dont consider the massacre of over 2 million people whos deaths in the bible can be attributed directly to god, as evil!!!!!!!!!!! MB when will you realise that you are fighting a loosing battle? maybe 100 years ago you could still convince people that your god is real, but not now... people are to educated.... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Someone correct me if im wrong, but doesnt the effect of loosening your chest strap decrease as your canopy gets larger... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

So that we all here can make up our minds as to whether “god” acted in justice, lets take a look at a couple.. And just so we are on the same page here is the Oxford English definition of Justice:- jus•tice n. The quality of being just; fairness. 1. a. The principle of moral rightness; equity. b. Conformity to moral rightness in action or attitude; righteousness. 2. a. The upholding of what is just, especially fair treatment and due reward in accordance with honor, standards, or law. So here is the first one…… Samual 6:19 And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter. So basically god kills 50,070 for looking into the ark, now that’s some tough ass justice in my book… Exodus 32:25 And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies:) 32:26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD's side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him. 32:27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour. 32:28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men. God has the people kill each other for dancing naked around Aaron's golden calf. God tells the sons of Levi (Moses, Aaron, and the other members of their tribe that were "on the Lord's side") to kill their family and friends for dancing naked around Aaron's golden calf. "And there fell of the people that day about 3000 men." Hmmm is that justice?? Do you want me to continue MB???????? Or can well all please conclude that your god, the christian god is one bad ass evil mutha...... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Hmm interesting, in that case you must consider none of these to be "evil works?" is that correct... God is incapable of being or doing evil. He is a God of justice and gives men and women multiple opportunities to repent of their sins and bring themselves into harmony with Him. When I get a chance to re-read these incidents you refer to, I imagine that I will find that God acted in justice. Have you checked them yourself to see if God was simply "on a killing spree" or if He had been sinned against but gave ample opportunity for repentance? 1. How many men did God kill because someone decided to peek into the ark of the Lord? – Answer 50,070, Samuel 6:19 2. How many men did Moses kill in one day because they failed to say they supported God? – Answer 3000, Exodus 32:26-28 3. How many people did God kill in a plague before someone pleased God by ending a mixed marriage with the murder of the couple? – Answer 24,000 Numbers 25:6-9 4. How many animals did Solomon kill in a sacrifice to please the Lord? – Answer 120,000 sheep and 22,000 oxen Kings 8:6 5. How many Israelites did God deliver to the people of Judah to slaughter? – Answer (this is a big one) Half a Million (500,000) Chronicles 13:15-1 6. Notwithstanding the above, how many people of Judah were once killed or enslaved because they didn’t give God his due? – Answer 120,000 valiant men were killed and 200,000 women and children were taken as slaves Chronicles 28:6-8 7. How many Ethiopians did God kill for His chosen people? –Answer 1 Million Chronicles 14:8-1 8. Speaking of God’s chosen people, how many kings were maimed in God’s name? – Answer 70 had their thumbs and big toes cut off Judges 1:5-7 9. How many soldiers did God burn to death with fire from Heaven because they confronted Elijah? Answer 150 (three sets of 50) Chronicles 1:10-14 10. By the time God gets through with his killing spree, how many dead will there be? – Answer Enough to cover the entire surface of the Earth Jeremiah 25:33 So then let me get this straight, if you piss god off, but refuse to repent and he strikes you down with a bolt of lightning then thats "ok" and not considered "evil"??? Can I apply this same logic then if my wife refuses to appologise for something she has done, I can then simply "kill" her???? ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

This is worth repeating. Without the slider pulled down and the chest-strap loosened, harness input will have little effect. I think this is variable depending on your canopy. I would notice very little difference between riser down and chest strap loosened when using harness inputs under a safire 134 and 119. Under my current 107 Stiletto I can fly it only using the harness with the slider up and chest strap tight. In fact after I have deployed I will fly it using harness inputs whilst I stow my slider, sort my leg straps out and loosen my chest strap. Having said that once all that is done the result of any harness input is a lot greater. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

slide your leg straps slighty down your legs, so that you are sat in your harness as opposed to hanging in it. That way your imputs will be larger. Does that make sense?? ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Gaffer tape them to your face.,... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Im not sure about a 200ish sqft canopy, but what I can tell you is that under a 119 Safire at about 1.4 I would loose about 350ft during a 270 front riser turn. Under a Safire 134 at about 1.25 I would loose about 300ish ft in a 270 front riser turn. Therefore Its probably acurate in saying that your not going to loose a lot of altitude under your canopy.. The Safire isnt a "diving" canopy, as soon as you let off the risers it will recover from the dive quite quickly. This can be also be termed as a "short recover arc". ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Well I raised, and took the time to answer some interesting questions in my last post, what did you think of them???? ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

The judge told me it was either skydiving or jail.... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Hmm interesting, in that case you must consider none of these to be "evil works?" is that correct... 1. How many men did God kill because someone decided to peek into the ark of the Lord? – Answer 50,070, Samuel 6:19 2. How many men did Moses kill in one day because they failed to say they supported God? – Answer 3000, Exodus 32:26-28 3. How many people did God kill in a plague before someone pleased God by ending a mixed marriage with the murder of the couple? – Answer 24,000 Numbers 25:6-9 4. How many animals did Solomon kill in a sacrifice to please the Lord? – Answer 120,000 sheep and 22,000 oxen Kings 8:6 5. How many Israelites did God deliver to the people of Judah to slaughter? – Answer (this is a big one) Half a Million (500,000) Chronicles 13:15-1 6. Notwithstanding the above, how many people of Judah were once killed or enslaved because they didn’t give God his due? – Answer 120,000 valiant men were killed and 200,000 women and children were taken as slaves Chronicles 28:6-8 7. How many Ethiopians did God kill for His chosen people? –Answer 1 Million Chronicles 14:8-1 8. Speaking of God’s chosen people, how many kings were maimed in God’s name? – Answer 70 had their thumbs and big toes cut off Judges 1:5-7 9. How many soldiers did God burn to death with fire from Heaven because they confronted Elijah? Answer 150 (three sets of 50) Chronicles 1:10-14 10. By the time God gets through with his killing spree, how many dead will there be? – Answer Enough to cover the entire surface of the Earth Jeremiah 25:33 ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

This is one of the key factors of Christianity and many other religions, in that it frees the believer from all responsibilities of the world. The basic problem is poverty. Most Africans live in rural areas, where many are subsistence farmers, dependent on a good harvest to get enough food to eat. There are hardly any irrigation systems, so people rely on the rains. Now correct me if im mistaken but doesn’t the “weather” come under the control of your God, and im led to believe that it would be well within his power to make a little rain, as that’s basically all that is required. BUT NO, he likes to watch them suffer and die……. Personally I find that somewhat harsh.. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Wow, br0k3n has been used of God to help starving people! How about that?! I wonder if br0k3n realized that he was part of God's plan! So let me get this straight, every action I take is just part of Gods plan?? is that correct... The same plan that included the Holocaust and estimated death of over 11million Jews, Poles, Gypsies, and homosexuals. The same plan that had Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold kill 12 students and injure 24 at Columbine High School. The same plan that had Alexander The Great massacre at least a quarter million city dwellers at Sindimana, Gaza, and other locations. The Same plan that had Almost all Muslim and Jewish inhabitants (approx 70,000) slaughtered in the first crusades. The Same plan that had Genghis Khan massacre 600,00 at the Herat massacre. The Same plan that saw over 1.3 million murdered during the Great Purge by Joseph Stalin during the late 1930's. The Same Plan that included The Rwandan Genocide, which was the massacre of an estimated 800,000 to 1,071,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus in Rwanda, mostly carried out by two extremist Hutu militia groups. I could go on, but I hope you get my point, although I doubt that you will ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Stop avoiding the question, you are the one making wild claims about some almighty god that is all loving and caring, yet is for some reason allowing an estimated 5 children a second to waste away and die… would you not agree it is these children that need saving, not me……. and do you think your little scriptures are going to feed them!!!!!!!!!!!! So your answer to world hunger is…. Matthew 4:4 and Deuteronomy 8:3!!!!!! And people still ask what is the harm in religion………. ***By the way, when are you heading off to Africa to save those people you know are going to die*** “By the way” I’ve been and helped, I admit its not much in the whole scheme of things but still more then your God has done… So what have you done, or more to the point what has your God done????????? ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

And who exactly calls it "blind faith"? Only those who refuse to look at or accept the evidence. The Bible nowhere leaves the impression that our faith is based on nothing. It is always based on either eyewitness testimony) or the trustworthiness of the object of one's faith. WHAT EVIDENCE??? show me.... You tell me then, why is it called Faith where is the shining cross in the sky???? by the way are you going head off to Africa to save the homeless with your bible quotes???? just wondering how its going.... I've calculated that since I suggested it you about 18720 children have died due to hunger...why doesnt God help them, why does he just leave to them die?????? ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Ermmm correct me if im wrong..... but there is NO evidence what so ever..... thats why its called "blind faith" 1. where is the holy grail? 2. where is the arc of the covenant??? 3. Noah arc perhaps??? I don't try to prove God. He doesn't need my help. 1. Holy grail is a legend, never mentioned in the Bible 2. The arc of the covenant disappears from scripture around the captivity of Judah by the Bablylonians. It was probably melted down. 3. Ararat? Perhaps??? What evidence can you give that God doesn't exist? I dont need to provide any evidence, the burden of proof is with you.... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

Not necessarily. As I already said, according to Scripture God works in accordance with His wisdom and purposes, and because this is so, our best interests are always served... It's just that we often don't realize what is in our best interest. As for everyday needs, like food, here's what Christ said: Matthew 6:25-34 (Today's New International Version) 25 "Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life ? 28 "And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Blue skies & happy knots ~Mockingbird "O, joy and rapture unforeseen, the clouded sky is now serene!" Holy Crap batman....... clearly as you are blinkered to what is happening in the REAL world, I suggest this..... Book yourself on a flight to Africa and preach your little biblical passage to the mothers of the estimated 11 million children that die before they reach the age of 5 due to starvation.... Or perhaps preach it to the parents 16,000 children that die from hunger-related causes every day--one child every five seconds. ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+