Chaucer

Are you referring to the surface of the bills or to the sides as well. The Ingrams would have encountered bills stacked and stuck to one another. Could they have been picking rubber bands from the sides of the bills clumped together?

The "Eagle Line" was frequency 131.9 mHz that was used to connect jetliners with the NWA Flight Ops in Minneapolis. This is not in dispute. As I have stated, I have spoken with NWA radio operators, including the one above, to confirm this. NWA may have leased frequencies and equipment from ARINC but their radio network was independent. Clearly, in an emergency situation like NORJACK, common sense and decency held sway over corporate and proprietary matters.

Come on, Bob. You're better than that. You're a pilot. It wasn't a direct phone patch on 131.9. It was a VHF radio freak. You know as well as I do that Flight 305 would have lost VHF comms about 110 miles south of Seattle due to attenuation regardless of east-west repeaters. Possibly before. I haven't even read the FAA manual and I know that. I have provided the unredacted teletype both here and on Shutter's site that show that there are no unusual communications pertaining to Flight 305. I will not provide them again. If you cared enough, you would have looked at them the first time. If you had, you'd know why two aircraft unrelated to 305 were included. To your last question, you have provided no evidence that there are 19 redactions, and if there are, you have provided no evidence that those redactions are related to Flight 305. If you have such evidence, I would encourage you to post it. Otherwise, we will simply assume that they are figments of your overactive imagination and keep our laughter quiet and respectful. Either way, I am glad that I was able to help you understand the reality of the situation. See, this is what happens when you make up your mind about something and stop doing research. You get complacent and lazy, and you get lapped by eager shitheads like me who are more motivated than you are. Next time, try to keep up. Don't be dead weight.

There's not a lack of interest, georger. I literally asked you to elaborate, and you refused. Come on...

I was planning on posting my new information re: SAGE radar and the construction of the flight path map today, but I was too busy helping R99 out, and now my team is on the boob tube. I'll post it tomorrow.

You're starting to get it! Yay! Yes, they did have a company wide teletype network along with a company radio network. Again, I've spoken with NWA radio operators from that time, and Paul Soderlind himself describes 131.9 as an "NWA company frequency". There is no mystery surrounding the frequency. Regarding transmissions and distance, the network was a trunked system that used repeaters. That way a jetliner in Washington State could still communicate by radio to Flight Ops in Minneapolis. When Delta Airlines bought Northwest, their extensive radio network was a key part of that deal. Now, the question we should all be asking ourselves is: why is the report of the pressure bump not included in the teletype?

As stated in Paul Soderlind's notes that were provided to the FBI, frequency 131.9 was the NWA company frequency that Flight 305 communicated on until approximately 8:20 pm. Flight 305 lost comms on the company frequency and was thereafter connected on an ARINC phone patch on frequency 131.8. Because frequency 131.9 was an NWA company frequency, ARINC would not be providing teletype services. That would be done in-house in Minneapolis by NWA radio operators. I have spoken to several, and they have all confirmed this. Here, let me share it with you again, since you are having difficulty understanding. At 8:22 =/- a three minutes, communications were lost on NWA communications frequency (131.9). Then a phone patch with ARINC in Seattle was established. Flight 305 did not communicate on an ARINC frequency until that phone patch at about 8:22. Again, these are Paul Soderlind's notes that he provided to the FBI. You can find these notes in FBI 66, p. 22. Do you get it yet?

Wrong again, Robert. Keep trying. I know you can do it.

I don't think it's going around in circles. It's the nature of research. There are stops and starts and sometimes you go in circles before you find the answer. And you are wrong about one thing: I are about your conversations with Pat.

This is so ignorant of the facts. Not only are you totally wrong, about this, but you are too arrogant to see it. This is from Soderlind's notes provided to the FBI. Look at the time stamp. It reads 8:22. Read that first sentence. "NWA communications frequency 131.9" Keep trying, Robert. You'll figure it out eventually.

This is how Grinnell (and his wife who was a teller at the same bank) described how a money bundle was typically packaged: This tracks with him describing the feeling of the money in the bag on his lap as "bricks" "lumps" and "chunks". I think the bill/rubber band contact is interesting, georger. Can you elaborate on what the implications of that are? Lastly, I asked Brian Ingram about the positioning of the rubber bands a few months ago. Here is what he said: "Don't have a real strong memory of the rubber band positioning. I called my mother to ask, and she said her memory says individually wrapped bundles, but due to the conditions of the rubber bands, she's not 100% sure on that."

Yes, I believe there is a news article from 1980 in which an Agent Baker is quoted saying that very same thing.

Hang on...let me provide some context. There were some in the FB group who were suggesting that the seeming discrepancies between Grinnell's description of the money and the way it was found on Tena Bar indicated re-packaging of the money in the days and/or months after the hijacking. So, what Tom is saying is that based on his re-examination, there doesn't appear to be any re-packaging of the money by a human after the hijacking ie. the money was found by Brian the same way it was delivered to Cooper.

Also, Tom Kaye posted this to the Facebook group about a month ago...

Both Grinnell interview transcripts have been made available on the Facebook group. I asked Mr. Grinnell about whether the bundles were randomized (some with five, some with four, some with three, etc.). He said that he didn't see them close enough to know for sure if they were randomized or if they were the standard five packet bundle. He did say that the ransom money was kept in a safe within the vault in bags containing paper-strapped packets of various denominations and that money was then removed from those bags and packaged together. He cannot say exactly how those packets were bundled - only that typically they were bundles of five paper-strapped packets secured on either end by rubber bands. The upshot is that Mr. Grinnell explained clearly the standard operating procedure for bundling money (five paper-strapped packets secured on either end with rubber bands), but also said that he could not say for sure that was how the Cooper money was bundled. He left open the possibility that due to the emergent nature of the situation, bank employees bundled the money more quickly and thus differently than the SOP. It doesn't provide a clear answer, I know, but I think it's reasonable to assume that the money provided to Cooper on the plane was same as was found on Tena Bar.

The NORJACK teletype is not an ARINC teletype. It was done in-house by an NWA radio operator located in Minneapolis. I can even tell you which hangar at NWA HQ it was done at. Ask yourself: why would ARINC be teletyping message that were over an NWA frequency? NWA 305 did not switch over to an ARINC frequency until approximately 8:20. This isn't opinion. An examination of the teletype along with Soderlind's own notes indicate as such. I have explained my claims to people I like, people who are interested, and people who would understand. You are none of those.

Sorry, Bob, you're wrong. In 1971, NWA had its own radio network. I've spoken with folks at the NWA Historical Center and people who were radio operators for NWA. I've also spoken with a woman who worked for ARINC her entire life and recently retired after writing a paper on the system. The teletype for NORJACK is not ARINC. It was an in-house teletype. You also wrong in that I haven't studied the transcripts. I have studied them intently. Perhaps you should go give them and the teletype another look. See, you decided that you were right ten years ago and stopped researching. While you have spent your time being condescending to me and others, I have dived into the communications aspect of this case, researched every aspect of the communications that night, spoken to men and women involved in the process, and consulted experts. You're ten years behind, Robert. If I thought you'd actually pay attention to and synthesize the information, I share it with you, but I know you well enough to know that you'd just list all of your credentials and then tell me to read the FAA manual.

Nope. You're wrong. I don't give fiddler's fart what certifications you have. You are simply and demonstrably wrong. The crew communicated on 131.9 mHz from 3:13 until approximately 8:20. At 8:19/8:20 Soderlind reports that communications was lost on NWA company frequency 131.9 and they switched to a direct phone patch which had been set up by Seattle ARINC on 131.8 mHz. The teletype was done in-house by NWA and not by ARINC because NWA was one of the few airlines at the time to have their own radio network. That's why we have the teletype to begin with: NWA had immediate access to it. We don't have teletype from 8:20 on because ARINC was involved at that point. Also, just because the FBI or FAA has neither confirmed nor denied the existence of unredacted transcripts doesn't mean they exist. They haven't confirmed or denied the existence of little green men either. The fact of the matter is you have never provided any evidence to back up your claim of unredacted transcripts, and you never will because you do not have said evidence. It is all a figment of your imagination.

Thanks, Robert. That's exactly my point. The crew would not have been discussing the ongoing emergency with ATC, but rather the company. As I have been saying repeatedly forever, if you have proof that the "19 areas of redactions in the Seattle ATC Center radio transcripts" include communication about the jump time, please provide it. Otherwise, it is speculation bordering on fantasy. Also, the crew did not begin communicating on the ARINC phone patch until approximately 8:20. Prior to that, they were communicating on a regular NWA company frequency. I continue to be amazed how someone with all of your aeronautical qualifications continues to get his basic information wrong.

This is demonstrably untrue. The crew was in almost constant contact with the crew. Any bump or incident on the plane would have been reported to NWA, not ATC. A casual glance at the comms would show you this.

Jesus Christ on a cracker, it;s almost like people should listen to me on here. I have been saying that "took leave of us" has been at the Reno airport since...I dunnoo...forever.... Second, what evidence is there for an FB drop zone? A report of an oscillation at 8:11? Followed by a sled test that also replicated an oscillation? If am remiss, please correct me?

In re-reading my original post, I see that it comes off as unnecessarily aggressive. Wasn't my intention, and I apologize to everyone. My point stands, however. The initial crew statements indicate a jump much closer to Portland than the original DZ.

Rather than talking in circles,, let's look at the source documents. This was the very first memo indicating the crew's statement to the FBI. It was likely sent within a couple of hours after touchdown at Reno: This the the 302 typed up days later using notes taken within an hour of the hijacking: : Now, I don't know anything from anything, but it seems like the crew is referring to Vancouver here, not Ariel. Not Battle Ground. Not Heisson. Not Brush Prairie. Not Orchards. I've spoken to multiple locals, including those who lived in the area in 1971, and including pilots, and they all say - to a person - that these descriptions could only refer to Vancouver. No one, not even a pilot travelling at 165 knots would describe Lake Merwin or Battle Ground or Orchards as "within or in proximity of Portland" or "not yet...Portland proper, but...definitely in the suburbs or immediate vicinity". To underscore this point, is this video, done by Shutter, indicating that anything resembling Portland or its suburbs would be far south of the original DZ. Finally, in speaking with a local pilot, she said that Vancouver/Portland "sneaks up on you" especially in bad weather. So, if we want to get our panties twisted up about a jump near Battle Ground, we should look at the primary sources and what they mean.

You're too humble, G. You have done good research, and you have important information to share. I wish you would.

Georger has the details.